What is it with merging traffic?

[Graydo]

Always a danger sign for me, as is a baseball cap or hoodie (particularly if cap is on backwards). I make an exception for open top vehicles. Hoodie on backwards is a red alert.

Yes,
flat capper's are also a problem although more through ineptitude than attitude.

Graydo

 

[jongood]

Undertaking is illegal, especially if the vehicle is already indicating to move into the slower lane.
There is no "correct" procedure and sadly common sense and courtesy seem to be in short supply these days.

Graydo

AFAIK undertaking is not an offence in itself but you could be charged with careless driving if the manouvre is deemd to be such

here is what the RAC say.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/undertaking/

The reason its particularly pertinent for Motorhomes is that on multi lane motorway, if you are in lane 1 and come up to a slow moving vehicle in lane 2 is it safer to move out to lane 3 and then come back to lane 1, or proceed cautiously past in the same lane.

Jon

 

[bigtwin]

Undertaking is illegal, especially if the vehicle is already indicating to move into the slower lane.
There is no "correct" procedure and sadly common sense and courtesy seem to be in short supply these days.

Graydo

Undertaking is illegal, but passing on the left is not.

Ian

 

[bigtwin]

AFAIK undertaking is not an offence in itself but you could be charged with careless driving if the manouvre is deemd to be such

here is what the RAC say.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/undertaking/

The reason its particularly pertinent for Motorhomes is that on multi lane motorway, if you are in lane 1 and come up to a slow moving vehicle in lane 2 is it safer to move out to lane 3 and then come back to lane 1, or proceed cautiously past in the same lane.

Jon

Yes, your final para describes ‘passing on the left’ which is perfectly acceptable and isn’t undertaking.

Undertaking would be moving, from the lane you are in, into the lane to your left, passing the obstructing vehicle and moving back into the lane on your right.

Ian

 

[The Dotties]

I would have stamped on the brakes.

I take it from that crass statement that you’ve never driven 44 tonnes at 56mph?

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[Graydo]

I wouldn't want to explain to my insurance company after being involved in an accident that I was only passing on the left and that the RAC said it was OK.

YMMV

Graydo

 

[34127]

I drive my motorhome very defensively, you have to really, although you can of course use your size sometimes.
However , where I find quite a problem is with merging traffic when I am on a motorway or major road.
I'm going , like most of us, relatively slowly, 60-65mph but vehicles merging seem to think I am not the one with right of way being on the major carriageway.
I quite often have to speed up or brake because a car insists on merging right in front of me.

I wonder if all lane 1 travelers suffer this, truckers included?

Is it only me or do you suffer similarly?

(Note , of course in a car you just move over to lane 2 etc. and there does not seem to be a problem)

Drivers often quote who has right of way, myself included, but the rules of the Highway Code do not give right of way in any circumstances.
"The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident".

 

[Graydo]

Ha ha,
it must be great being an insurance company with the multitude of reasons available to them to deny paying out.
No one on this forum can agree who is right or wrong so how easy must it be for them.

Personally I blame Brexit :>)

Graydo

 

[bigtwin]

I wouldn't want to explain to my insurance company after being involved in an accident that I was only passing on the left and that the RAC said it was OK.

YMMV

Graydo

Paying out is neither dependent on being blameless nor legal.

The only detrimental impact when you claim when you are to blame is that it affects your NCB.

Based on your position, are we to assume that you never, ever, speed?

Ian

 

[ctc]

Make sure your camera is pointing in the right direction and working, if you haven't got one god help you.

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[Graydo]

Paying out is neither dependent on being blameless nor legal.

The only detrimental impact when you claim when you are to blame is that it affects your NCB.

Based on your position, are we to assume that you never, ever, speed?

Ian

Sorry,
I didn't realise that you were so awash with money that you don't mind losing your NCD, others may not see things the same way.
Do you imagine insurers allocate blame based on whether you are a nice person or perhaps a great British bake off fan?

Graydo

 

[bigtwin]

Sorry,
I didn't realise that you were so awash with money that you don't mind losing your NCD, others may not see things the same way.
Do you imagine insurers allocate blame based on whether you are a nice person or perhaps a great British bake off fan?

Graydo

You’ve lost me there. I was responding to your fear about ‘explaining‘ to your insurer.

Ian

 

[Graydo]

You’ve lost me there. I was responding to your fear about ‘explaining‘ to your insurer.

Ian

Perhaps I misunderstood,
I think we can all agree that there are plenty of bad drivers out there without arguing amongst ourselves.

Drive safely

Graydo

 

[jongood]

Sorry,
I didn't realise that you were so awash with money that you don't mind losing your NCD, others may not see things the same way.
Do you imagine insurers allocate blame based on whether you are a nice person or perhaps a great British bake off fan?

Graydo

????

 

[Chocy boy]

Many years ago I was driving into London on M4 when a car tried to force its way onto carriageway from the service area, unfortunately for them a police patrol car was behind him, they pulled him over and he was done for dangerous driving, I was a cop going on duty, although the patrol car crew did not know this at the time

If they did't know you how do you know he was charged with dangerous driving.

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[Paulypaul]

This happens to me everyday on motorways/dual carriageways. You see them hurtling down the slip road, no sign of them checking their mirrors. If I can, I try to get out into lane 2 to allow the numpties to join the carriageway, after all, they assume they have right of way?

However, the problem I face on a daily basis is that when you put your indicator on to get out to lane 2, more often than not the car already in lane 2 speeds up stopping you from getting out cause they don't want to be stuck behind a lorry doing 56mph cause it'll make them late! If its another lorry already in lane 2, you stand a chance of getting out and no one is any the wiser that they have created this situation.

Now then, if I can't get out to lane 2 there's no way I'm braking to let the pleb on the slip road join the carriageway, particularly when loaded. Sometimes they may see something in their peripheral vision that alerts them to the fact that they will have to slow down and join the traffic flow safely in turn before they hit the lorry in lane 1. On the other hand, some of these plebs get to the end of the slip and suddenly notice an artic next to them who hasn't stopped to let them out, how dare they! Then its a case of them braking hard or heading up the hard shoulder in a cloud of dust. Sometimes they have the nerve to toot as they eventually tear past in lane 2 waving a hand gesture like I'm the one who's wrong?

All of this could have been avoided simply by coming down the slip at a sensible speed and looking at what the traffic is doing and using their mirrors to join the flow of traffic. No accidents, no sudden braking and no hold ups...simple.

Sometimes, when I have managed to move into lane 2 to allow one of these retards out, they don't allowing you to overtake cause they're matching your speed rather than just slowing till a lorry gets past and pulls back into lane 1. It's beyond me how these people manage to get to A-B in one piece. But it's people like that who cause the accidents and traffic hold ups but manage to toodle off totally ignorant to what they have just done.

Someone posted that people are taught to pass their test but not how to drive. I concur, and it amazes me daily how little understanding people have of lane discipline and roundabouts.

As for middle lane hoggers.........................

 

[Nirvanauk]

Undertaking is illegal, especially if the vehicle is already indicating to move into the slower lane.
There is no "correct" procedure and sadly common sense and courtesy seem to be in short supply these days.

Graydo

Is undertaking illegal? I don’t do it but understood that if the fast lane was moving slower than the speed limit then it was ok. I can’t clarify it at the moment as I’m at Zeebrugge waiting for the ferry and it’s going to be ruff!??

 

[Silver-Fox]

Undertaking is illegal, especially if the vehicle is already indicating to move into the slower lane.
There is no "correct" procedure and sadly common sense and courtesy seem to be in short supply these days.

Graydo

My understanding is undertaking is illegal only when you move to the lane the car you have undertaken is in.

I’m happy to be corrected ?

 

[Silver-Fox]

Now then, if I can't get out to lane 2 there's no way I'm braking to let the pleb on the slip road join the carriageway, particularly when loaded. Sometimes they may see something in their peripheral vision that alerts them to the fact that they will have to slow down and join the traffic flow safely in turn before they hit the lorry in lane 1. On the other hand, some of these plebs get to the end of the slip and suddenly notice an artic next to them who hasn't stopped to let them out, how dare they! Then its a case of them braking hard or heading up the hard shoulder in a cloud of dust. Sometimes they have the nerve to toot as they eventually tear past in lane 2 waving a hand gesture like I'm the one who's wrong?

I truly feel for you guys.
There’s no way I could mentally cope with some of the t***s on the road these days.

They say the test has got harder but it appears the quality has dropped.

 

[mpdcymru]

Drivers often quote who has right of way, myself included, but the rules of the Highway Code do not give right of way in any circumstances.
"The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident".

On my driving test (a good few years ago!!) the examiner asked me a question about roundabouts and I replied along the lines that "if I was already on the roundabout I had right of way over traffic joining it" he quickly replied "Try telling Him up there you had right of way. There is no such thing as a right of way when driving, sometimes you may have priority!" The concept of "right of way" is used far too much and I think we should all be thinking about priority rather than right of way - it may change your atitude when driving.

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[glenn2926]

An earlier post mentioned the 2 second gap. If as is correct you leave this gap some fool joining the motorway will fill it. You then do not have the 2 second gap. Surely the vehicle joining should not fill this safety margin. The vehicles travelling along the motorway do have priority and should not have to change either their speed or direction to accommodate any vehicles wishing to join.

 

[buttons]

I understand the suggestion to move to lane 2 , however in a motorhome the speed difference is often too high to enable you to move over without causing a problem.

My experience in Europe is limited so far to a month in France and Spain. I don't recall any real problems. It seems to me more of a problem in the UK ?

Lorries manage lane changing without difficulty. It is not down to the individual, good slip road etiquette involves all drivers in all lanes. All 1-2-3-4 lanes should be aware of the vehicles joining the motorway. All lanes should adjust speed and lane changes to allow for vehicles joining and changing lanes. This common sense is of course destroyed by uninformed inexperienced selfish drivers of BMWs and Audi's doing 80+mph in the outside lane who are probably not even aware of the slip road or anything else that is going on in the other three lanes...
Many drivers are absolute thick selfish josser's.

 

[Pausim]

Many drivers are absolute thick selfish josser's.

Yes and they are not all driving Audis or BMWs, they might be driving an inferior make.

 

[buttons]

Yes and they are not all driving Audis or BMWs, they might be driving an inferior make.

If the hat fits Pausim..

 

[Silver-Fox]

If the hat fits Pausim..

He might be referring to your good self driving your sons car.

I might be wrong it’s just a feeling I get ?

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[jongood]

Lorries manage lane changing without difficulty. It is not down to the individual, good slip road etiquette involves all drivers in all lanes. All 1-2-3-4 lanes should be aware of the vehicles joining the motorway. All lanes should adjust speed and lane changes to allow for vehicles joining and changing lanes. This common sense is of course destroyed by uninformed inexperienced selfish drivers of BMWs and Audi's doing 80+mph in the outside lane who are probably not even aware of the slip road or anything else that is going on in the other three lanes...
Many drivers are absolute thick selfish josser's.

I didnt realise you had a Licence for a lorry Buttons, 1 , 2 or 3?

 

[Kingham]

Successfully motorway joining requires anticipation & cooperation by all parties. Those already on the motorway know they are approaching a slip road & therefore should be expecting joining traffic. They should(!) already be maintaining a 2 second gap to the vehicle in front. Common sense & common courtesy suggests that you would assist someone joining the motorway if that is reasonably possible.

Someone joining should expect but not rely on reasonable assistance. They can only expect assistance if they have made whatever effort they can to cause the minimum disruption. So looking for the gap, matching speed to merge seamlessly into the gap. But those on the motorway do have a responsibility to make a gap - if the joining traffic has made the effort to get up to speed, it is unrealistic to then leave them nowhere to go.

So what is reasonable assistance? Moving to lane 2 if there is a gap there to move to. Just easing off slightly to make a bigger gap. The vehicle on the motorway has a better view of the developing situation than the one joining. It's recognising that a loaded wagon pulling up an uphill slip is never going to get up to speed before they have to join the main carriageway & therefore moving to lane 2 becomes more of a necessity - or even moving to lane 3 to let the traffic in lane 1 move out to 2.

It's the unconfident driver who is the biggest danger, because they are unpredictable. The arsehole in the BMW (other makes are available to arseholes) barrelling down the slip road expecting everyone to get out of his way is 100% predictable & can be allowed for. You know exactly what he is going to do, so let him go & he'll be away down the road & out of your hair. It's the ditherer you need to watch, because nobody, least of all him, knows what he's going to do next.

That for me is the perfect answer ??

The onus to join correctly will always be on the driver joining, but a little bit of anticipation and courtesy goes a long way to keeping things safe and flowing, both on the slip road and the main carriageway.

When driving on a motorway and I can see a slip road is busy, I often knock off my cruise control and ease off the accelerator ever so slightly, or even gently accelerate if I can see it’s the correct thing to do, just to tweak a gap.

I’ve seen too many drivers close up a gap, for no other reason that I could see other than just to be bloody minded.

 

[Kingham]

......Now then, if I can't get out to lane 2 there's no way I'm braking to let the pleb on the slip road join the carriageway, particularly when loaded......

......Then its a case of them braking hard or heading up the hard shoulder in a cloud of dust......

I’m thinking that any other occupants in that car are entirely innocent of the driver’s actions, as are the occupants of a car that may be heading for the safe sanctuary of that same bit of hard shoulder in a breakdown.

I totally get your frustration and there’s a lot of truth in the whole of your post, but I sincerely hope the above scenario never goes wrong for you and you find yourself having to explain to a bereaved family or a jury, why their loved ones died as a result of you being able to do something, but deliberately chose not to.

 

[Paulypaul]

I’m thinking that any other occupants in that car are entirely innocent of the driver’s actions, as are the occupants of a car that may be heading for the safe sanctuary of that same bit of hard shoulder in a breakdown.

I totally get your frustration and there’s a lot of truth in the whole of your post, but I sincerely hope the above scenario never goes wrong for you and you find yourself having to explain to a bereaved family or a jury, why their loved ones died as a result of you being able to do something, but deliberately chose not to.

If I saw that the hard shoulder was already occupied do you think I would leave it till the last minute to see if the numpty was going to brake before having to use the hard shoulder?....No. mind you, if that scenario where to ever occur would'nt you think that the driver would already have looked in his mirror to see if his path onto the carriageway was clear assuming he had spotted the hard shoulder was occupied? I would hope that passengers may also alert the driver to his stupidity. I think my post may have come across as a little bit pre meditated.

The reality is that if you are loaded with freight or even empty, and traffic is up your arse, the chances of causing an accident by braking to let some knob out off the slip is far greater than the said knob head running up the slip road and crashing.

And as my post already stated, if a vehicle on the carriageway did brake to let knob head out, and an accident ensued behind, Mr knob head would no doubt trundle off up the carriageway totally obilivious, having ruined innocent people's lives already on the carriageway.

A truck, loaded or empty, just won't stop like a car but car drivers in general don't think that way and will cut in leaving you no braking distance whatsoever.

I'm afraid your scenario still points to the car driver on the slip road still being an idiot but that's jut my opinion based on my experiences.

 

[WynandJean]

The unfortunate thing is that the inconsiderate/dangerous drivers are unlikely to even read threads such as this let alone change their ways as a result.

Wyn

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