What do you get for 2kw of EHU ... (2 Viewers)

[MisterB]

For the non techies out there, and I include myself in that, perhaps my recent experience will help ...

I am on a site in Holland and electricity is supplied at a cost of €1 for 2kw, but how does that relate to usage/ battery top up etc? I'm sure there is a formula but as a real life example .....

We have a 304Ah lithium that was down to around 50%, solar wasn't great so I thought why not try the provided supply and see?

€1 provided 2kw at a 16A supply. It almost completely recharged the battery before iwe had used the full 2kw AND we had several drinks via the electric kettle plus ran the inverter (for starlink) throughout the period. We made sure the fridge stayed on gas as charging the battery was the main reason (after being off grid for a couple of days). It took a few hours of course to recharge and if the supply was lower (6A) it would have taken much longer.

Hope the practical/real life experience helps?

 

[carolyn]

Had you been stationary for a while? I know you said the solar wasn’t great but was that due to the weather, under trees or do you just not have much? Just wondering why your lithium had dropped so much. Still trying to get my head round these things especially as you run your fridge on gas.

 

[jumar]

Compare it with your itemised domestic bill breakdown if you have it in your computer/phone...
I have an app on my phone and just checked mine...
My apartment here in Spain on average uses 5kwh per 24 hours...on average per kWh is 0.16€. very cheap compared with campsite supplied EHU..

 

[MisterB]

carolyn

We use the battery via an inverter for virtually everything, microwave, electric kettle, air fryer, induction hob, George foreman grill, toaster, table top pizza oven etc etc. Pretty much as we would do at home, which is why we had depleted it so much. We are heavy consumers and don't worry about saving power, we just use it when we want to!
We also have a B2B but it doesn't seem to be working as it should, hence the need (or desire) to top up while we could

Solar has been limited for the last few days, if we weren't using 240v appliances via the inverter, we probably wouldn't have needed to 'top up'

 

[MichaelT]

Why use the inverter to run starlink if you had EHU?

When we were in Spain in winter on ACSI site we got 4kw a day free but we used 8kw in the same hours topping up battery, running fridge and having hot water on, it then got cut off so we went back to gas for everything.

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[MisterB]

Why use the inverter to run starlink if you had EHU?

You're right, we didn't run the inverter during that period 'doh' .....

 

[Gromett]

For the non techies out there, and I include myself in that, perhaps my recent experience will help ...

I am on a site in Holland and electricity is supplied at a cost of €1 for 2kw, but how does that relate to usage/ battery top up etc? I'm sure there is a formula but as a real life example .....

We have a 304Ah lithium that was down to around 50%, solar wasn't great so I thought why not try the provided supply and see?

€1 provided 2kw at a 16A supply. It almost completely recharged the battery before iwe had used the full 2kw AND we had several drinks via the electric kettle plus ran the inverter (for starlink) throughout the period. We made sure the fridge stayed on gas as charging the battery was the main reason (after being off grid for a couple of days). It took a few hours of course to recharge and if the supply was lower (6A) it would have taken much longer.

Hope the practical/real life experience helps?

That is confusing you say 2KW which is an 8.5Amp supply. Then you say a 16A supply.

Do you mean 2KWh ?

If so then the calculations are pretty easy.
12v (nominal) x 304Ah = 3,648Wh. or 3.6KWh but that is from 0 to 100%.

 

[carolyn]

carolyn

We use the battery via an inverter for virtually everything, microwave, electric kettle, air fryer, induction hob, George foreman grill, toaster, table top pizza oven etc etc. Pretty much as we would do at home, which is why we had depleted it so much. We are heavy consumers and don't worry about saving power, we just use it when we want to!
We also have a B2B but it doesn't seem to be working as it should, hence the need (or desire) to top up while we could

Solar has been limited for the last few days, if we weren't using 240v appliances via the inverter, we probably wouldn't have needed to 'top up'

Thankyou, we are getting a new van with fancy lithium things etc, 3 & 1/2 weeks later we’re off on a big tour, we’re clueless but getting better. We’re very lucky in that the tour leader is very knowledgeable about everything van related including lithium. We only know this because we went on a tour with this company last year and if it hadn’t been for his skills one couple wouldn’t have left the campsite in the UK nevermind made the tour of Turkey and Cyprus! We don’t want to be that couple, it wasn’t their fault I hasten to add .

We won’t be heavy users but do have a compressor fridge. We will be moving a lot. You initially had me worried but not now. Thanks again .

 

[MisterB]

That is confusing you say 2KW which is an 8.5Amp supply. Then you say a 16A supply.

Do you mean 2KWh ?

If so then the calculations are pretty easy.
12v (nominal) x 304Ah = 3,648Wh. or 3.6KWh but that is from 0 to 100%.

The site advertises it as 2kw of electric via a 16A supply .... I was just trying to show what that equates to in an example of actual use.

The way you explain it might be technically correct, but I made it clear that my example was a practical experience not a technical one involving calculations.

I am assuming that 2kw, whether at 16A or 6A would still top up my battery over different time periods, which as a non techies, is all I needed to know, and now I do, I think!

 

[MisterB]

Thankyou, we are getting a new van with fancy lithium things etc, 3 & 1/2 weeks later we’re off on a big tour, we’re clueless but getting better. We’re very lucky in that the tour leader is very knowledgeable about everything van related including lithium. We only know this because we went on a tour with this company last year and if it hadn’t been for his skills one couple wouldn’t have left the campsite in the UK nevermind made the tour of Turkey and Cyprus! We don’t want to be that couple, it wasn’t their fault I hasten to add .

We won’t be heavy users but do have a compressor fridge. We will be moving a lot. You initially had me worried but not now. Thanks again .

Sounds like a great adventure!

Try out your new vans electrickery on your drive first if possible. If you have a decent inverter and high capacity lithium, you may be surprised just how simple life can be when just flicking switches as opposed to watching gas flames ...

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[ManTheVan]

Do you mean that the EHU is limited to 2kW of power, or that each 1€ buys 2kWh (i.e. 2 units) of electricity? I reckon it might be the second one…

Leccy use can often sound like a dark art, but it’s pretty simple to get your head around if you think of it in terms of “power”, which is the amount of work (watts) that it can do in an amount of time.

1000W for one hour or 1kWh (one unit) will run a one-bar (1kW) heater for one hour. The same amount of energy would power a 100W lightbulb for 10 hours, or a 3kW kettle for 20 mins.

You can quickly work out power (watts) by multiplying volts by amps. If your battery charger is rated 10A, then at 230V (mains) it uses (10 x 230) 2300W (2.3kW) in one hour. If your charger is a 5A one, then it would take 2 hours to use the same amount of power.

In our motorhomes, the battery supplies electricity at (nominally) 12V. Your lovely LiFePO4 battery holds 305Ah, which means, theoretically, it could provide (305 x 12) 3660W of power in total. If it was at 50% charge, that’s 1830Wh needed.

If your charger is a 5A model, then at 230V it would give your battery (5 x 230) 1150W of power in one hour. At that rate, your battery would be fully charged in about one and a half hours, leaving you some spare power for your 1€ worth of leccy.

Or, if you were running just your 3-way MH fridge on EHU, it would use about 60W of power in one hour. Your 1€ of leccy would buy you a staggering (2000Wh/60W) 33 hr and 20 mins worth of beer-chilling time!

 

[Gromett]

The site advertises it as 2kw of electric via a 16A supply .... I was just trying to show what that equates to in an example of actual use.

The way you explain it might be technically correct, but I made it clear that my example was a practical experience not a technical one involving calculations.

I am assuming that 2kw, whether at 16A or 6A would still top up my battery over different time periods, which as a non techies, is all I needed to know, and now I do, I think!

Sorry, it is not just a technical question it is a matter of understanding to be able to answer your question.
2KW and 2KWh are two totally different measurements.
One is the rate of flow. Two the measure of how much in total.

2Kw and 16 amp is the rate of flow. or how much is passing through the wire.
2KWh is the total amount used. This is what is normally billed for.

 

[carolyn]

Sounds like a great adventure!

Try out your new vans electrickery on your drive first if possible. If you have a decent inverter and high capacity lithium, you may be surprised just how simple life can be when just flicking switches as opposed to watching gas flames ...

We have warned the family that we will be living in the van on the drive even when they come home for nearly a week for our daughter’s wedding!

 

[JockandRita]

When we last did ACSI in Spain, the Dometic Fridge Freezer used up 3.5Kw of the 4Kw allowance, and each unit thereafter was charged at 0.48cents. We now just pay the lesser pitch fee, and for any electricity we use, running the fridge on cheap Spanish propane cylinders during the daytime. On the last visit we only used 11.5 Euros in 5 x weeks by unplugging during the day and using solar power and gas, then plugging in at night and running the FF on EHU.

I look forward to the day when we do go over to LiFeP04.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[MisterB]

I apologise to all those Funsters who are confused as much as I am when it comes to the dark arts of electricity and perhaps have now slunk further into the deep!

I tried to give a real life example of what you get for your money, which was that 2kw of electricity at 16A 'as advertised by the site' actually charged my 304Ah battery from half full to full.


Hope that helps someone, somewhere, sometime ..

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[ChrisL]

We also have a B2B but it doesn't seem to be working as it should

Which B2B do you have? If it's Victron you can try going into settings/engine shut down detection and changing the start voltage to 13.3 volts, I found that at the default settings I was only getting around 12 amps from my B2B after making the change I got the full 30 amps, I discovered this from watching one of RogerIvy videos on YouTube.

 

[Lenny HB]

I tried to give a real life example of what you get for your money, which was that 2kw of electricity at 16A 'as advertised by the site' actually charged my 304Ah battery from half full to full.

With Lithium as the Phuket Exponent is almost 1 it is easy to work out how much the battery will take in watts.
So if your 305ah is 3904 watts at 12.8v so if it was 50% discharged it would take 1952 watts to recharge, 98% of your 2kw.

You said your B2B wasn't doing much, you are probably losing 15 amps to the fridge.

 

[MisterB]

Which B2B do you have? If it's Victron you can try going into settings/engine shut down detection and changing the start voltage to 13.3 volts, I found that at the default settings I was only getting around 12 amps from my B2B after making the change I got the full 30 amps, I discovered this from watching one of RogerIvy videos on YouTube.

It's a Renogy 60A. As I haven't disconnected anything or removed the split charger I assumed I would get close to the 60A charging rate, with the alternator continuing to feed the fridge ...
When I get back in a couple of days time, I might have to get a grown up to check it for me. At the moment when I turn on the engine I'm getting around 18-20A input to my battery according to my Bluetooth display (on my phone) I haven't checked it whilst actually driving but I do know that when I've driven for an hour or two it doesn't always top up the battery as I hoped it would.
Should I expect to see it charging at 60A?

 

[Lenny HB]

It's a Renogy 60A. As I haven't disconnected anything or removed the split charger I assumed I would get close to the 60A charging rate,

By leaving the split charge relay in circuit you have effectively bypassed the B2B, you will get some assistance from the b2B but not much as it is in parallel with the split charge relay.

 

[berni109]

We have warned the family that we will be living in the van on the drive even when they come home for nearly a week for our daughter’s wedding!

Great excuse! They can take care of themselves while you and nick relax in the van.
Somehow I don't think so.

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[Gromett]

I apologise to all those Funsters who are confused as much as I am when it comes to the dark arts of electricity and perhaps have now slunk further into the deep!

I tried to give a real life example of what you get for your money, which was that 2kw of electricity at 16A 'as advertised by the site' actually charged my 304Ah battery from half full to full.


Hope that helps someone, somewhere, sometime ..

I am going to assume you mean 2KWh not 2KW.

A 304Ah battery is 12v (nominal) x 304A = 3648 Wh or 3.6KWh

to get from 50% to 100% would take half of that or 1.8KWh.

That figure is excluding losses and inefficiency in the system and uses nominal voltage.

 

[funflair]

I apologise to all those Funsters who are confused as much as I am when it comes to the dark arts of electricity and perhaps have now slunk further into the deep!

I tried to give a real life example of what you get for your money, which was that 2kw of electricity at 16A 'as advertised by the site' actually charged my 304Ah battery from half full to full.


Hope that helps someone, somewhere, sometime ..

Not at all confusing when read in conjunction with a couple of other post Gromett and ManTheVan to name but two, the correct unit terminology makes all the difference, it's like saying 80 miles when somebody asks how fast you are going, OK we would most likely all understand that actually means 80 miles per hour or does it

 

[headlight]

It's a Renogy 60A. As I haven't disconnected anything or removed the split charger I assumed I would get close to the 60A charging rate, with the alternator continuing to feed the fridge ...
When I get back in a couple of days time, I might have to get a grown up to check it for me. At the moment when I turn on the engine I'm getting around 18-20A input to my battery according to my Bluetooth display (on my phone) I haven't checked it whilst actually driving but I do know that when I've driven for an hour or two it doesn't always top up the battery as I hoped it would.
Should I expect to see it charging at 60A?

As Lenny says with the split charge still connected the B2B will see the split charge input and do very little itself.
You need to disconnect/disable the split charge for the B2B to work properly.

 

[JockandRita]

By leaving the split charge relay in circuit you have effectively bypassed the B2B, you will get some assistance from the b2B but not much as it is in parallel with the split charge relay.

As Lenny says with the split charge still connected the B2B will see the split charge input and do very little itself.
You need to disconnect/disable the split charge for the B2B to work properly.

MisterB. Like you Dave, I'm not that technically blessed either, but as the two posts above, I had the split charge system interrupted, by the fitting of a normally closed relay, which opens upon an ignition signal, thereby allowing the 60A B2B to fully charge the batteries, which are also powering the 3 x way F/F.

Should the B2B fail at anytime, I just need to disconnect either the pos or neg wire to the relay, which returns everything to normal charging from the CBE system.

Good luck with it.

Jock.

 

[carolyn]

Great excuse! They can take care of themselves while you and nick relax in the van.
Somehow I don't think so.

Tell Eleni I will send photos, of the wedding, not the van!

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[MichaelT]

MisterB. Like you Dave, I'm not that technically blessed either, but as the two posts above, I had the split charge system interrupted, by the fitting of a normally closed relay, which opens upon an ignition signal, thereby allowing the 60A B2B to fully charge the batteries, which are also powering the 3 x way F/F.

Should the B2B fail at anytime, I just need to disconnect either the pos or neg wire to the relay, which returns everything to normal charging from the CBE system.

Good luck with it.

Jock.

Assuming the split charge goes via EBL will that limit the amount of amps being delivered?

 

[JockandRita]

Assuming the split charge goes via EBL will that limit the amount of amps being delivered?

All I can say Michael, is that with a clamp meter, we were getting a higher out put reading from the B2B, than we were getting from the connected CBE split charge setup.

HTH,

Jock.

 

[autorouter]

I tried to give a real life example of what you get for your money, which was that 2kw of electricity at 16A 'as advertised by the site' actually charged my 304Ah battery from half full to full.

It's very common to get kW and kWh confused. The '2kW' advertised by the site is in fact 2kWh. The maximum rate (watts) for a 16A 230V supply would be 16 x 230 = 3680 watts, ie 3.68kW. So in theory you could use your 2kWh of energy in just over half an hour, if you were using it at the maximum rate of 16A.

Your 304Ah battery would take 152Ah of charge to refill if it was at 50%. At the nominal 12V, that would require 12 x 152 = 1824 Wh, ie 1.824kWh. So that's used up nearly all of the 2kWh you paid for, exactly as you said.

If you had a compressor fridge, it might use about 1.5A on average, so in 24 hours that would be 36Ah, and at 12V the energy consumption would be 36 x 12 = 432 Wh, ie 0.432kWh, so 2kWh would be plenty to keep a compressor fridge going.

 

[Peavy]

I was surprised at the campsite in Füssen, we were paying 1€ per kW/h and it lasted more than 24 hours.
Here in Spain, we are usually asked to pay around 5€ per day if you want EHU.
We're being robbed.

 

[meanders]

It's the site advertising that's wrong I think. On a 16A supply you can draw up to just over 3kW (3000W) safely, a little more (3680 at 230V) in reality, but it means you can plug in a standard electric kettle. If you had a heater rated at 2kW and ran it for an hour you would use 2kwh costing you 1 Euro. However if you had small tube heater a ran it for 10 hours you would still use 2kWh. The 3KW kettle you could only run for 40 minutes for the same money.

The key thing is that what the site is quoting is a nonsense as it actually saying you can only draw 2000W on a supply that is rated for 3000+W. A bit like saying you can only do 50mph when the limit is 70! The missing bit is the time scale. You could draw 100W all day and night totalling 2400W (costing Euro1.20). For convenience expressing everything to the hour equivalent (The standard common denominator), makes all comparisons and calculations easier. So if they had said you pay a Euro for every 2kWh you use, that makes sense, but saying you pay for 2kW makes no sense at all.

As someone else put it about speed which we generally express in the UK as miles per hour, but other terms are available. For instance 60MpH is the exact same speed at 88 feet per second and just over 96 kilometers per hour.

Edit autorouter types quicker than me,

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