Welsh Aires ?

[jongood]

Well it’s quite a big difference really. Another campsite would have to compete on a level playing field. A council run aire would be in direct competition but subsidised by the local taxpayer, my large tax sum included. At the risk of a “stupid suggestion” If you were a shopkeeper selling widgets and the council said they were going to open a shop next door giving away not quite widgets, but near enough, would you think it was a good idea?

I can't see why an aire in Gwynedd wouldnt wash its own face, f it was subsidised I wouldnt expect it to be done

 

[jongood]

As the comments on this thread (and those over the last several years) prove, the fact that an apparent resource is there does not mean it is a suitable resource for a change of use.
Councils have no option but to avoid harming local businesses which provide employment and other income for their areas, be they caravan sites, farms, shops or any other types of business.

Our local council don't get this, they have parking charges that wouldnt look out of place in Knightsbridge

 

[busbuddy]

I've never had a problem staying in a layby overnight in gwynedd, or staying at a campsite, or a premier inn/travelodge...done all 3 styles of staying over



The people who always go on campsites will continue to do so, the people who overnight in the middle of a busy town will continue to do so, the people who spend single nights on sites and also on the road as they tour will continue to do so

There are more normal vehicles 'stealth' camping than proper motorhomes at tourist spots...a drive around llanberis would prove that to anyone

 

[Tombola]

I Spend a lot of time stomping around North Wales and am as happy staying off sites as staying on. I dont need the full facilities and often dont even use them when on site.

I think you will find Jim Jones (head of tourism) said the proposed "aires" would be chargeable, which makes sense to me if it hit the right price bracket. Not all motorhomers are tight wads when it comes to paying for sites as seems to be the assumption.

BUT also Barryh while i understand your point about site custom I think you may not be seeing the busines advantage to sites here aswell. After all, by NOT having aires doesnt mean you will recoup your potential 4000-5000 loss per season.

Like we all know the increase in motorhomes on the road has grown lots over the past few years, so the rate of stays on a site would have grown, aswell as demand for "non site" stays, so the playing field is larger, = instead of saying you will lose money, look at what you will/could gain.

Add to this the amount of people who travel in to dudno, c, bay, Pensarn (as per the 1st pic in the article) and surrounding areas and notice a site like yours that they may have a nosey at and come back and spend time or recommend it to folk like us on forums like this.

They may have kids/teens wth them on the family getaway that in 5 years time own there own motorhome/caravn and think awww remember we used to go there with mum and dad, Id like to go but would rather stay on a site instead of the Aires..blah blah.

Many folk dont look at a business opportunity when it is presented and think of what could be been taken from them, instead of what can be added to their own business by looking forward and earning coin.

Oh one more thing, I hear the stones on the beach at dudno that were added years ago for sea defences are in the pipeline to be removed, so the beach will once again be a beach
More custom for eveyone then when folk flock in by even greater numbers. (where they are all gonna go, god knows as its always rammed lol)

Lets hope its the beginning of the end of this "anti motorhome" feeling in Cymru

 

[TinaLes]

IMHO Campsites are for tents & caravans, maybe even those MH's that are not self sufficient and need an electrical hook up.
Reason is we like to tour in our van, pull up later in the day, leave early, not many campsites realise that and have minimum two night stays.

Too many especially the larger clubs do not offer enough non electric pitches as such price their pitches to cover all costs that are not necessarily needed, like shower blocks, washing up facilities etc all geared mainly for campers, heating tents & awnings in winter.
I dont want to put up an awning when touring, I just want to have access to services like fresh water, and black waste dump, which I am prepared to pay for, but most camp sites dont offer that facility to non stayers, but I can live with that at a push.
We need more CL type sites like @Quackers,and others, no ehu, no shower blocks, affordable pitches, just a nice green space so we can chill out for a while, throwing fresh eggs into the offer also helps ensure that he gets loads of repeat business from Motor Homers.
Thank You to all CL providers.
LES

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[GJH]

Our local council don't get this, they have parking charges that wouldnt look out of place in Knightsbridge

Looking on the Shropshire Council web site, the parking charges don't look vastly different from Teesside (or elsewhere in the country). Councils also have a legal duty (brought in by the Thatcher government) to fund car park maintenance from charges.

 

[PP Bear]

I didn’t buy my van to then line the pockets of campsites. I brought it for the freedom it offers me and the choices it gives me.

Well done Wales for even embracing the idea, let’s hope it come to pass and more councils see the benefits too

 

[DDJC]

The quote below from that article shows that some people just don't get it - Some motorhome users, myself included, just don't like campsites. Cost is irrelevant, and this attitude / opinion just drives me across the channel.

Another caravan site owner thought the pilot scheme was the "stupidest idea ever".

"I would suggest if someone can afford a £40,000 campervan or motorhome, they can afford £20 to stay on a site with proper facilities,” he said.

Forty grand for a motorhome???
Bargain. I'll take two please.

Love Snowdonia & go there whenever we can. Next in Easter.
Would I use an aire?
No. Never use one in Yerp either. We need the security of knowing that we have a place to stop, and we very rarely do a single night anywhere. There is too much to see!

But for those funsters who do that, this sounds great.

 

[jongood]

Looking on the Shropshire Council web site, the parking charges don't look vastly different from Teesside (or elsewhere in the country). Councils also have a legal duty (brought in by the Thatcher government) to fund car park maintenance from charges.

Shrewsbury centre car parks are £1.80/hour on weekdays 90p/hour on Sundays and some charge up to 8pm. I'm betting nowhere in Teeside is as dear as that??

 

[GJH]

Shrewsbury centre car parks are £1.80/hour on weekdays 90p/hour on Sundays and some charge up to 8pm. I'm betting nowhere in Teeside is as dear as that??

That's about middling then. Middlesbrough's basic charge is £1.30 for short stay car parks. Other places in the greater region charge more in car parks comparable to Shrewsbury. York charges £2.70 in some car parks and Newcastle £2.10/£2.30.
Part of the thinking is to discourage traffic in congested cities/towns.

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[pagey]

I notice they are quoting Beddgelert Campsite. I tried to stay there, about 3 years ago, The entrance is at least a mile out Beddgelert along a road that aint going to be clever to walk along at night and then you've got an unlit track of another 1/2 mile?? This nicely illustrates the difference between the requirements of a Caravanner and a Motorhomer. Too many people in UK think a MH is just a self propelled caravan.

This sums up nearly all camc sites no use to a motorhomer

 

[cyberyacht]

"I'd like a coffee please. Sorry sir, that's only available with a three course meal. But I only want a coffee"
That is the problem with campsites. There are times when we want "full fat" but for somewhere safe and convenient for the night, possibly with water and black, I'm reluctant to pay more than a tenner.

 

[Toady]

The UK councils need to wake up and embrace motorhoming and supply what is needed ie good quality aires.

The current set up of only offering expensive campsites in the middle of nowhere is a complete joke!

 

[ElliesBoss]

Just like to know why, if the impact of these Aires, is going to be so great on campsites why the owners don't get involved building their own at their sites or indeed offering to manage the council aires.

On a general note we got back yesterday from a three week tour of Wales. We decided to try and avoid off gridding. Finding sites open was an issue. Trying to contact anybody at the ones supposedly open to arrange accommodation for that night was s trial in itself and we were half way to where we chose to go before anyone got back to us. The campsites we stayed on were fine (£5 to £26) with friendly staff however having paid for camping we were normally too far from pubs, shops etc to use the local facilities. Campsite owner 1, local business 0. Would definitely think twice about touring in Wales again. Great for a static holiday but not touring.

 

[TDub49]

The UK councils need to wake up and embrace motorhoming and supply what is needed ie good quality aires.

The current set up of only offering expensive campsites in the middle of nowhere is a complete joke!

That would be the same UK councils that have lost something like 26% of their funding since 2010 and have statutory duties to fulfil like public health, education and children's services. Quite where the money to "embrace motor homing" would come from is a bit of a puzzle.

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[Googlebot]

Problem is that it isn’t £20, it’s more like £50 a night for the four of us on a campsite.

If it was £20 I would happily pay but the fee, but I am not going to be using anything except water, cold at that, means I don’t like being ripped off.

Site owners that actually cater for the style of camping I like are non existent. I only want to park and dump my waste, fill up the water. That’s it. £50 please Sir…..

North Wales has few campsites, those that are there are expensive and full. A shame as we love the place and people.

Aires are a great idea for us.

 

[jongood]

That would be the same UK councils that have lost something like 26% of their funding since 2010 and have statutory duties to fulfil like public health, education and children's services. Quite where the money to "embrace motor homing" would come from is a bit of a puzzle.

They could easily make money out of it. Many cases just needs the rules relaxing and could use existing car parks like Powys already do.

 

[jongood]

Most N wales campsites are full of statics.

Problem is that it isn’t £20, it’s more like £50 a night for the four of us on a campsite.

If it was £20 I would happily pay but the fee, but I am not going to be using anything except water, cold at that, means I don’t like being ripped off.

Site owners that actually cater for the style of camping I like are non existent. I only want to park and dump my waste, fill up the water. That’s it. £50 please Sir…..

North Wales has few campsites, those that are there are expensive and full. A shame as we love the place and people.

Aires are a great idea for us.

 

[GJH]

They could easily make money out of it. Many cases just needs the rules relaxing and could use existing car parks like Powys already do.

As pointed out many times, each council area is different and aires aren't wanted everywhere.
When we persuaded Redcar & Cleveland to "relax the rules" and allow overnighting at Guisborough it failed because there was hardly any demand. Luckily they had not spent a lot of money.

 

[GJH]

The UK councils need to wake up and embrace motorhoming and supply what is needed ie good quality aires.

The current set up of only offering expensive campsites in the middle of nowhere is a complete joke!

Why don't you approach your local council and show them how advantageous it would be to them to allow camping in some/all of their car parks?

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[Barryh]

Just like to know why, if the impact of these Aires, is going to be so great on campsites why the owners don't get involved building their own at their sites or indeed offering to manage the council aires.

It’s not an answer you will like. I don’t know about Wales but in England a campsite is licenced by its local authority. The local authority invariably uses the model standards for campsites in its licence. This licence contains the much maligned six metre spacing rule and site capacity, which the campsite has to follow or risk losing its licence. So a campsite would need both the physical space and licence space to be able to create a separate 6m spaced aire for folk who don’t want to pay full rates. Or turn over existing pitches which are probably more profitable (dirty word for some) left as they are. Can’t see it happening really.

 

[Garratt]

I often use UK campsites and am regularly disappointed by dirty tepid showers in unheated shanties, toilets that are cleaned only once per day and pitches that are either muddy or covered in grass cuttings that trail into the van. Pitches don't have boundaries so if you are near an amenity block, people will walk past your van to get to them. All for £20 - £30 per night. When you are the only game in town, people don't have much choice.

If aires become a thing in the UK, then campsite owners will need to respond to the competition and provide the kind of facilities that will attract people to stay where they can see what they are getting for their money. This can only be a good thing.

 

[GJH]

I often use UK campsites and am regularly disappointed by dirty tepid showers in unheated shanties, toilets that are cleaned only once per day and pitches that are either muddy or covered in grass cuttings that trail into the van. Pitches don't have boundaries so if you are near an amenity block, people will walk past your van to get to them. All for £20 - £30 per night. When you are the only game in town, people don't have much choice.

If aires become a thing in the UK, then campsite owners will need to respond to the competition and provide the kind of facilities that will attract people to stay where they can see what they are getting for their money. This can only be a good thing.

Interesting point. If aires would be so attractive why don't individuals/companies open them?

 

[Catpirate]

I used a CCC site in July 2020, cost £40 a night (2 adults 3 children (1 in a wheelchair)), it did have facilities and was only a short walk along the Wye to Rhayader. We stayed for 3 nights and didn't really need the facilities except fresh water and waste disposal. Not cheap and we would have stayed in an Aire if is possible. We selected this site as it was close to town and it is totally impracticable for us to stay on a site far from town or without a frequent bus service. We do wild camp, only over night usually, and our next stop was at at Keepers Pond with an easy walk up the Blorenge for an amazing view (Top tip, do not walk into the marshy bits) no facilities but can stay overnight.

The Blorenge | Abergavenny

 

[Tony V]

A campsite owner friend of mine summed it up quite well. Given that he is licensed for a certain number of pitches, he would rather let a pitch for a whole week rather than to an over-nighter , with no certainty of letting that pitch on other nights.

Booking in advance meant that his staffing and cash flow could be monitored and changes catered for. [think of the old 'no coach parties' rule at many pubs.]

He thought the provision of aires was a good idea.

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[Tombola]

Interesting point. If aires would be so attractive why don't individuals/companies open them?

they are only so attractive to "councils" or authorties wanting to attract business/tourists to a town and make money that way for local businesses and then possibly increase taxes/rates/parking/etc and recoup it that way

They are not attractive to folk who want to make a business solely out of charging people camping/staying over.
They are called "camp sites" and charge more to make a profit

 

[63720]

Aires, many of which are free or have an honesty box, and sites work well together over the channel, sadly over here you have to include great british greed.

 

[Stealaway]

powis council already allow parking in their carparks overnight for £8 we stayed in several this year some had toilets and water

That is all that's needed for the majority of motorhomes.
Its far better than having completely empty carparks overnight. Especially the huge seaside coach parks.

 

[pagey]

That is all that's needed for the majority of motorhomes.
Its far better than having completely empty carparks overnight. Especially the huge seaside ones.

we stayed at the carpark at the ponti whatever aquaduct its only £3 per night if you fit on the marked bays my van is 7 meters and a touch to long so i bought 2 tickets , decent pub there toilet with elsan point by the tourist info office and some good walks with good views whats not to like for £6 per night

 

[Stealaway]

we stayed at the carpark at the ponti whatever aquaduct its only £3 per night

We have stayed there a good few times on our trips to and from Wales. Great spot and what a wonderful walk over the aqueduct.

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