Weight uprating

[wd1506]

Has anyone on here uprated their MH weight themselves and not through an agency. If you have was it an easy process or should I leave it to the agency

 

[cmcardle75]

109's are load rated to 1030Kg, so 2000Kg on the rear axle.

That makes 2060kg on the rear axle and no trouble with 1850kg on the front. 3850 would lack a certain flexibility, for sure, with axle loads being more important than total MAM in terms of real world loading. You'd certainly want to know your actual axle loadings as you normally pack so you can work out where any extras need to go if going to the wire.

 

[The Coops]

Don't expect a swift answer ! Been waiting since MARCH for my upgrade and still nothing but is in the system!!!

 

[Two on Tour]

That makes 2060kg on the rear axle and no trouble with 1850kg on the front. 3850 would lack a certain flexibility, for sure, with axle loads being more important than total MAM in terms of real world loading. You'd certainly want to know your actual axle loadings as you normally pack so you can work out where any extras need to go if going to the wire.

The weighbridge had our back axle hovering around the 2000Kg mark when loaded which was to close the the load rating of the 215 15's for my liking, so I changed to 225 16's on new alloys which as well as giving a good safety margin on tyre loading, also improved the ride as I could reduce the tyre pressures.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Yes, it appears so.

The information required is:-

1. My name and address.
2. Vehicle Registration.
3. ALL data on vehicle VIN plate.
4. Preferred weight.
5. Fee (£180)

On the plate the figures are 3300kg
5800kg
1-1750kg
2-1900kg

From the V5......Mass in Service 2700kg. Max permissible Mass 5800

Tyres....Continental Vancocamper 215/70 R15 CP 109R.

Is that seriously all he wants to know, 1 to 5 on that list. No information about your chassis type, suspension, tyres or rear axle. Then, give me your £180 and pick your preferred weight.

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[Two on Tour]

Is that seriously all he wants to know, 1 to 5 on that list. No information about your chassis type, suspension, tyres or rear axle. Then give me your £180 and pick your preferred weight.

We had to send John a spec sheet for our van when we up-plated via him.

 

[Sapper520]

When ordering the van I missed (overlooked) the option for the manufacturer to upgrade the weight to 3500kg, at a cost of £519. No mods etc, just a straight paper exercise upping the weight by 200kg......on the light chassis.

For £839, I could have up rated the light chassis to a Maxi 3500 chassis (this included 16” steel wheels.

An increase from a 3500 light to 3500 maxi was £319 (including 16” steel wheels.

It appears from the brochure, the light chassis Uprating from 3300 to 3500 is purely a paperwork exercise by the manufacturer as well.

I replied to John’s initial email, asking him to confirm his assessment of weight increases. Awaiting a reply.

 

[Sapper520]

Is that seriously all he wants to know, 1 to 5 on that list. No information about your chassis type, suspension, tyres or rear axle. Then give me your £180 and pick your preferred weight.

That’s all that’s on the email. I have asked him to check as the manufacturer will increase to 3500 as a paper exercise, but not any higher on the light chassis.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

That’s all that’s on the email. I have asked him to check as the manufacturer will increase to 3500 as a paper exexercise, but not any higher on the light chassis.

When I questioned what he told me, which turned out to be wrong, I never heard from him again.

 

[Sapper520]

When I questioned what he told me, which turned out to be wrong, I never heard from him again.

I’ll let you know if I hear back from him. May try elsewhere.

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[Minxy]

On the plate the figures are 3300kg
5800kg
1-1750kg
2-1900kg

From the V5......Mass in Service 2700kg. Max permissible Mass 5800

Tyres....Continental Vancocamper 215/70 R15 CP 109R.

It appears from the brochure, the light chassis Uprating from 3300 to 3500 is purely a paperwork exercise by the manufacturer as well.

I replied to John’s initial email, asking him to confirm his assessment of weight increases. Awaiting a reply.

Right, I've had a shuftie at the info for the Autocruise Accent PVC we had which was on the 3500kg light chassis, it's max axle weights when registered at 3500kg were 1850kg front and 2000kg rear so it looks like your weights have each had 100kg knocked off by Sunlight to take them down to 3300kg, ie 1750kg and 1900kg, therefore when John does the uprate it should be as I suggested previously, ie back to 1850kg on the front and 2000kg on the rear so nothing untoward at all.

 

[Sapper520]

I understand that Minxy, but the manufacturer won’t up rate it past 3500kg on the light chassis. They will only do it on the Maxi.

 

[Minxy]

I understand that Minxy, but the manufacturer won’t up rate it past 3500kg on the light chassis. They will only do it on the Maxi.

Yes but its probably because they want you to pay for the Maxi!

We had similar with our Carthago, it came in either 3500kg or 3700kg weights max despite it being able to go to 3850kg as a paper exercise (1850kg & 2000kg axles) but this wouldn't have increased the rear axle capacity which we wanted as we were too close to it for comfort, so it was uprated and paid for by the dealer to 3850kg (as they'd agreed to do this when we contracted to buy it they had no choice!) and we fitted rear semi-air assist (eye wateringly expensive on an Alko chassis at £2,000!) so although the overall capacity stayed at 3850kg it took the rear axle capacity up to 2240kg.

You going up to 3850kg with 1850kg and 2000kg axle capacity shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Paul Wilkins]

I know this is a new old thread, but I thought I’d resurrect it.

I’ve been in contact with John Ruffles. I just wanted to go from 3300kgs up to 3500kgs, but he informed me that I could go up to 3850kgs without any modifications should I want to.

Having the extra 200kgs would be fine for us, but is there any advantages (other than the extra payload) in going up to 3850kgs?

Mine and my wife’s licences cover us to drive the higher weight limit, so there’s no issues there.

Will going to 3850kgs mean we have to adhere to lower speed? Vehicle tax costs?

Trying to weigh giggle up the advantages / disadvantages. Cost to have it done is the same.

Technically, in Europe you would be required to stick to the 3.5t speed limits. Makes for a more leisurely journey whilst watching the idiots trying to ram each other off the autobahn.

 

[Mr Rusty]

I contacted John last year about updating my Burstner from 3.5t. It is coachbuilt on Fiat light chassis. He said I would need air suspension to uprate to anything over 3.5t. I also contacted Burstner at the same time and they advised that I could uprate to 3850 as a paper exercise and advised I use SVTech. I sent this info to John (Burstners email) and John changed his stance saying as manufacturer stated I could upgrade as a paper exercise he would accept this and sent me the relevant certificate for me to post to DVLA.

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[Sapper520]

Technically, in Europe you would be required to stick to the 3.5t speed limits. Makes for a more leisurely journey whilst watching the idiots trying to ram each other off the autobahn.

Never usually in a rush.

 

[Sapper520]

Being new to motorhoming I am checking and double checking what I’m doing in relation to the vehicle.

I CAN NOT recommend using the services of John Ruffles.

The information he sent to me was completely wrong. As I thought in the first place, my vehicle CAN NOT be plated above 3500kgs without significant modifications.

I did question this with him via email, but I still haven’t received a reply. I am happy to enter into dialogue with him, but I will have a number of questions for him to answer.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Being new to motorhoming I am checking and double checking what I’m doing in relation to the vehicle.

I CAN NOT recommend using the services of John Ruffles.

The information he sent to me was completely wrong. As I thought in the first place, my vehicle CAN NOT be plated above 3500kgs without significant modifications.

I did question this with him via email, but I still haven’t received a reply. I am happy to enter into dialogue with him, but I will have a number of questions for him to answer.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, I wouldn’t recommend him either and go further to say I think he’s quite possibly dangerous regarding the information he gives. He demonstrates a complete lack of motorhome knowledge.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, I wouldn’t recommend him either and go further to say I think he’s quite possibly dangerous regarding the information he gives. He demonstrates a complete lack of motorhome knowledge.

I used SVTech and even though more expensive, I was very happy with their service.

After I had the uprating done... I did make mention of the price difference but didn't mention John Ruffles by name...
This was their reply:
"It is worth noting for yourself and anyone else considering using someone like, that he (JRC) doesn’t actually test a vehicle to approve an uprate.
The service he provides is based upon calculation he claims to do on a computer.

Legislation changes in 2007 clearly state that calculations for approval are not an accepted method
(they never were for motorhomes).

JRC used to specialise in heavy commercial vehicle approval, of which calculations used to be acceptable when comparing to another model.
DVSA clearly state that approvals for uprating motorhomes must be based upon dynamic testing, of which SvTech have undertaken for over 25 years."

Obviously take into consideration SVTech is a competitor but it might be that his 'product' is illegal... but if your vehicle is technically & mechanically capable and DVLA accept his report - does it matter?

 

[Sapper520]

I used SVTech and even though more expensive, I was very happy with their service.

After I had the uprating done... I did make mention of the price difference but didn't mention John Ruffles by name...
This was their reply:
"It is worth noting for yourself and anyone else considering using someone like, that he (JRC) doesn’t actually test a vehicle to approve an uprate.
The service he provides is based upon calculation he claims to do on a computer.

Legislation changes in 2007 clearly state that calculations for approval are not an accepted method
(they never were for motorhomes).

JRC used to specialise in heavy commercial vehicle approval, of which calculations used to be acceptable when comparing to another model.
DVSA clearly state that approvals for uprating motorhomes must be based upon dynamic testing, of which SvTech have undertaken for over 25 years."

Obviously take into consideration SVTech is a competitor but it might be that his 'product' is illegal... but if your vehicle is technically & mechanically capable and DVLA accept his report - does it matter?

It does matter when it comes to a major safety issue. If I’d have gone for the maximum weight he told me I could up plate to, and used all that extra weight I’d have been driving a dangerous vehicle.

If I’d have had an accident and the vehicle checked, I’m guessing I’d have been in the poo. Ingnorance is rarely a defence. To say I’m a little angry would be an understatement.

How many overweight vehicles are there out there, that he’s up rated wrongly?

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[Minxy]

I used SVTech and even though more expensive, I was very happy with their service.

After I had the uprating done... I did make mention of the price difference but didn't mention John Ruffles by name...
This was their reply:
"It is worth noting for yourself and anyone else considering using someone like, that he (JRC) doesn’t actually test a vehicle to approve an uprate.
The service he provides is based upon calculation he claims to do on a computer.

Legislation changes in 2007 clearly state that calculations for approval are not an accepted method
(they never were for motorhomes).

JRC used to specialise in heavy commercial vehicle approval, of which calculations used to be acceptable when comparing to another model.
DVSA clearly state that approvals for uprating motorhomes must be based upon dynamic testing, of which SvTech have undertaken for over 25 years."

Obviously take into consideration SVTech is a competitor but it might be that his 'product' is illegal... but if your vehicle is technically & mechanically capable and DVLA accept his report - does it matter?

I'm not convinced of the validity of their statement simply because the DVLA/DVSA specifically approved him to undertake this work knowing what/how he was doing it ...

 

[Minxy]

I understand that Minxy, but the manufacturer won’t up rate it past 3500kg on the light chassis. They will only do it on the Maxi.

Did you read my reply to this?

Being new to motorhoming I am checking and double checking what I’m doing in relation to the vehicle.

I CAN NOT recommend using the services of John Ruffles.

The information he sent to me was completely wrong. As I thought in the first place, my vehicle CAN NOT be plated above 3500kgs without significant modifications.

I did question this with him via email, but I still haven’t received a reply. I am happy to enter into dialogue with him, but I will have a number of questions for him to answer.

So what has changed to make you take this stance? Who has told you this, what are the significant modification you need to undertake and why?

 

[Minxy]

Dynamic testing doesn't mean a physical test of every vehicle ...

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[RandallC]

Can only comment vis SV Tech. They were (I think) happy to chat about payload and up-plating, offered advice, very helpful when looking to buy a Rapido that was being sold at 3500kg and with the factory fit extras and a couple of dealer fitted items came out at 50kg less than 3500, dealer said that's plenty. SV tech advised could only be up-plated to 3850 leaving a miserably-unfit for purpose payload. IMHO.

 

[Sapper520]

Did you read my reply to this?

So what has changed to make you take this stance? Who has told you this, what are the significant modification you need to undertake and why?

I was dubious after I received his email in relation to his Uprating numbers.

Manufacturer’s specification’s clearly state, to go over 3500kgs I would need the Maxi Chasis and 16” wheels / tyres.

Today, I had a no obligation chat on the phone with SV. Gave them all the same details as I gave John, but they came to a different conclusion. They in no way would uprate my vehicle above 3500kg without modifications. After his opening statement of air suspension.......I said ‘Thanks, you don’t need to go any further, I’ll stick to 3500kg’.

Sorry Minxy, but having done my own research and then had it verified by SV, I’m in no way confident JR is getting it right.

I’ll probably uprate to 3500 but not using JR.

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[Minxy]

I was dubious after I received his email in relation to his Uprating numbers.

Manufacturer’s specification’s clearly state, to go over 3500kgs I would need the Maxi Chasis and 16” wheels / tyres.

Today, I had a no obligation chat on the phone with SV. Gave them all the same details as I gave John, but they came to a different conclusion. They in no way would uprate my vehicle above 3500kg without modifications. After his opening statement of air suspension.......I said ‘Thanks, you don’t need to go any further, I’ll stick to 3500kg’.

Sorry Minxy, but having done my own research and then had it verified by SV, I’m in no way confident JR is getting it right.

I’ll probably uprate to 3500 but not using JR.

So what chassis is your van actually built on? It can't be the standard 'light' chassis, it must be an even lighter chassis, what does the plate and/or COC say? As for not using JR that's your choice but why you want to pay nearly double to just go up to 3500kg as a paper exercise is baffling, does it really matter?

 

[Stroppy Bird]

So what chassis is your van actually built on? It can't be the standard 'light' chassis, it must be an even lighter chassis, what does the plate and/or COC say? As for not using JR that's your choice but why you want to pay nearly double to just go up to 3500kg as a paper exercise is baffling, does it really matter?

The light 33 chassis is one of the standard ones (used for some of the smaller conversions) along with the light 35. Fiat also do a light 30 but I've not seen this used in a conversion.

Our old Adria twin was on a light 33 which gave 3300kg with 1750kg for front axle and 1900kg for the rear axle. Our current Adria twin is on the light 35 which gives 3500kg with 1850kg for the front and 2000kg for the rear. The light 30 also has differing (lower) values.

I can only think that with the differing axle weights that the component parts of various systems are to a differing spec and so would limit the max overall possible weight increase without alterations.

The maxi chassis, which I think comes in a 35 or 40 version (3500kg or 4000kg), is different to the light versions with differing axle weights, in that they both have the same front and rear axle weights of 2100kg and 2400kg

 

[Langtoftlad]

After his opening statement of air suspension....

They probably meant air assist... not particularly expensive, nor difficult to fit

 

[Minxy]

The light 33 chassis is one of the standard ones (used for some of the smaller conversions) along with the light 35. Fiat also do a light 30 but I've not seen this used in a conversion.

Our old Adria twin was on a light 33 which gave 3300kg with 1750kg for front axle and 1900kg for the rear axle. Our current Adria twin is on the light 35 which gives 3500kg with 1850kg for the front and 2000kg for the rear. The light 30 also has differing (lower) values.

I can only think that with the differing axle weights that the component parts of various systems are to a differing spec and so would limit the max overall possible weight increase without alterations.

So if it's on the 33 light chassis that explains the discrepancy.

 

[Sapper520]

So what chassis is your van actually built on? It can't be the standard 'light' chassis, it must be an even lighter chassis, what does the plate and/or COC say? As for not using JR that's your choice but why you want to pay nearly double to just go up to 3500kg as a paper exercise is baffling, does it really matter?

I’m going on the manufacturer’s specifications, I’d rather work to their recommendations.

In a previous life I drove multi-axle LGV’s (HGV’s in my day), including abnormal loads. Axle weights, weight distribution and the importance of correct loading procedures was utmost to safety.

I have very little confidence in JR’s abilities. I don’t know the man, but his lack of response to a simple question to me speaks volumes (it appears it’s not the first time he’s done this). I couldn’t possibly encourage his activities by parting with my money to him.

Does it matter?......Absolutely it does.

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[Minxy]

I’m going on the manufacturer’s specifications, I’d rather work to their recommendations.

In a previous life I drove multi-axle LGV’s (HGV’s in my day), including abnormal loads. Axle weights, weight distribution and the importance of correct loading procedures was utmost to safety.

I have very little confidence in JR’s abilities. I don’t know the man, but his lack of response to a simple question to me speaks volumes (it appears it’s not the first time he’s done this). I couldn’t possibly encourage his activities by parting with my money to him.

Does it matter?......Absolutely it does.

Up to you, it's your money.