Weight tolerances query

[1967bowesj]

The cost to have semi air fitted

Where was that at Al n Val

 

[Stoosal]

The above guidance doc is for DVSA weighbridges/staff but is probably also reflected by other enforcement agencies. The notes to page 312 I have pointed out before. They may not choose to prosecute but they can/will still prohibit the vehicle from moving any further until it is legal/reweighed.

 

[Al n Val]

Where was that at Al n Val

Gliderite for they’re system and SAP for the VB system

So as I know Mick and know his work quality and work ethic i’ll be ringing him monday

 

[DandJ]

The DVSA has published their Enforcement Sanctions Policy (April 2024) which advises their examiners how they should deal with various offences. As I read it up to 5% overweight is a verbal warning. Overall weight and each individual axle weight are separate offences so NO you can’t add the individual 5%s together to add 450kg to the total. It is all to be found here starting at page 312.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/661544ae2138732c33031b75/dvsa-enforcement-sanctions-policy.pdf.pdf

Another thing to remember is that this is just the DVSA, not the Police, or the Law Courts.

Would the issue for the OP be;...so far overweight that they couldn't realistically lose sufficient weight to be allowed to carry on their journey just by ditching water etc (presuming the powers that be wouldn't allow them to continue whilst still overweight?)

 

[Pausim]

Would the issue for the OP be;...so far overweight that they couldn't realistically lose sufficient weight to be allowed to carry on their journey just by ditching water etc (presuming the powers that be wouldn't allow them to continue whilst still overweight?)

No idea really but I guess we are all at risk of a prohibition notice if overweight, even if we are not fined. Throwing passengers overboard seems unlikely to improve family harmony and taxi fares might be bigger than a £100 penalty. However my personal priority is wanting a safe vehicle so being inside the safe axle limits is my first concern.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DandJ]

No idea really but I guess we are all at risk of a prohibition notice if overweight, even if we are not fined. Throwing passengers overboard seems unlikely to improve family harmony and taxi fares might be bigger than a £100 penalty. However my personal priority is wanting a safe vehicle so being inside the safe axle limits is my first concern.

I'd imagine being 'just over' would lead to a rollocking and a 'lose 80kg to get going again' or whatever weight is required to be lost.....I doubt there's any chance of losing 380kg, and I doubt 'the authorities' can legally allow an overweight vehicle to continue on its journey? It shows the value of having your empty can weighed and work from there. (Saw some at a show yesterday with "250kg Payload !!"....and then you do the maths )

 

[Pausim]

No idea really but I guess we are all at risk of a prohibition notice if overweight, even if we are not fined. Throwing passengers overboard seems unlikely to improve family harmony and taxi fares might be bigger than a £100 penalty. However my personal priority is wanting a safe vehicle so being inside the safe axle limits is my first concern.

Just checked the weigh bridge ticket I obtained on Tuesday when fully loaded for our current trip (25% water, 90% fuel). I had 150kg spare on the front axle and 300kg on the rear but only 100kg spare payload. I am reasonably comfortable with that but no room for complacency.

 

[Pausim]

Saw some at a show yesterday with "250kg Payload !!"....and then you do the maths

I think they would no longer be allowed to sell that in Europe where they now have minimum payload regulations that manufacturers must comply with.

 

[DandJ]

I think they would no longer be allowed to sell that in Europe where they now have minimum payload regulations that manufacturers must comply with.

This was in France.
Here are the rules...(Itineo Website)

4 . ​

For motorhomes, European legislation requires a minimum payload equal to 10 kg multiplied by the total sum of the maximum number of passengers plus the driver plus the total length of the vehicle in metres. For example, for a 7 metre-long motorhome with 4 driving seats (including the driver), the minimum payload would be 10 kg x (4+7) = 110 kg.

 

[Carpmart]

This was in France.
Here are the rules...(Itineo Website)

4 . ​

For motorhomes, European legislation requires a minimum payload equal to 10 kg multiplied by the total sum of the maximum number of passengers plus the driver plus the total length of the vehicle in metres. For example, for a 7 metre-long motorhome with 4 driving seats (including the driver), the minimum payload would be 10 kg x (4+7) = 110 kg.

Ridiculous… seems our perception of all French Motorhome being overweight is probably fact!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[MichaelT]

Would the issue for the OP be;...so far overweight that they couldn't realistically lose sufficient weight to be allowed to carry on their journey just by ditching water etc (presuming the powers that be wouldn't allow them to continue whilst still overweight?)

Would they allow you to dump waste water?

I'd imagine being 'just over' would lead to a rollocking and a 'lose 80kg to get going again' or whatever weight is required to be lost.....I doubt there's any chance of losing 380kg, and I doubt 'the authorities' can legally allow an overweight vehicle to continue on its journey? It shows the value of having your empty can weighed and work from there. (Saw some at a show yesterday with "250kg Payload !!"....and then you do the maths )

No good weighing empty, you need to put everything in and fill with fuel and water then go to weighbridge. It's ok knowing empty weight then weighing everything to say you are within the overall weight but you need to know individual axle weights too and only once you are in full holiday trim would you know that.

 

[Pausim]

This was in France.
Here are the rules...(Itineo Website)

4 . ​

For motorhomes, European legislation requires a minimum payload equal to 10 kg multiplied by the total sum of the maximum number of passengers plus the driver plus the total length of the vehicle in metres. For example, for a 7 metre-long motorhome with 4 driving seats (including the driver), the minimum payload would be 10 kg x (4+7) = 110 kg.

Ridiculous… seems our perception of all French Motorhome being overweight is probably fact!

That is only part of the equation, they also have to allow for the passenger seats being used so for a 4 seat vehicle 3x75kg+110=335kg. They can reduce that to 185kg by removing the seat belts from 2 seats. Still very little but at least they are recognising that manufacturers should not be selling vehicles with no payload.

 

[DandJ]

Would they allow you to dump waste water?

No good weighing empty, you need to put everything in and fill with fuel and water then go to weighbridge. It's ok knowing empty weight then weighing everything to say you are within the overall weight but you need to know individual axle weights too and only once you are in full holiday trim would you know that.

Waste water? I suppose it depends where you're stopped.

I've previously said numerous times that all dealers should have to provide a weight cert of the van as it stands, for sale in their yard. Many advertise stuff with 400kg payload and fail to mention that actually, it is 270kg as it was specced with a 2nd battery, a solar panel etc etc... My point about empty weight and is that if you know it to start with, you should quickly suss that you'll be well overweight in travelling trim and do something about it prior to a trip. (reading many threads about weight, many seem to know they're likely to be overweight (the French especially !!!), ignore it and may well moan if stopped and made to unload or fined....folk are funny) knowing empty weight also allows people on the borderline to travel with 20% to 50% water and know they're well within...and to get into the habit of emptying the waste when leaving a site to ensure they stay 'legal'.
Empty and laden, I know both of ours...cost me all of about £20 for two trips to the weighbridge. (Another amusing aspect of ownership....hearing people with £75k MoHos moaning about £25 for a trip to get weighed....)

 

[Carpmart]

Waste water? I suppose it depends where you're stopped.

I've previously said numerous times that all dealers should have to provide a weight cert of the van as it stands, for sale in their yard. Many advertise stuff with 400kg payload and fail to mention that actually, it is 270kg as it was specced with a 2nd battery, a solar panel etc etc... My point about empty weight and is that if you know it to start with, you should quickly suss that you'll be well overweight in travelling trim and do something about it prior to a trip. (reading many threads about weight, many seem to know they're likely to be overweight (the French especially !!!), ignore it and may well moan if stopped and made to unload or fined....folk are funny) knowing empty weight also allows people on the borderline to travel with 20% to 50% water and know they're well within...and to get into the habit of emptying the waste when leaving a site to ensure they stay 'legal'.
Empty and laden, I know both of ours...cost me all of about £20 for two trips to the weighbridge. (Another amusing aspect of ownership....hearing people with £75k MoHos moaning about £25 for a trip to get weighed....)

It need not necessarily be expensive! There was a weighbridge at a free aire (below) we stopped at in Spain a few weeks back, €1 to get a ‘current’ travel weight. 7140kgs with around a 1/3rd of a Tonne of fresh water onboard, so all good! My issues is keeping below rear axle weight.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/NQ4jE5KqBFNaP1Bf9?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy

 

[bobandjanie]

This is why so many are towing trailers, I wouldn't say they ignore the issue, they ignore many rules and even more once they leave France. Bob.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[bigtree]

5% is often given as a tolerance in the UK but it depends which side of the be the officer got out or. Abroad no tolerance.

Weighbridge have a tolerance of +/- 100kg on a plate dynamic it's +/- 110 per axle so to be safe you need to be 300kg under.

In practice modern strain gauges are very accurate

So says the guy that is away abroad grossly overweight.

 

[Brianmor]

The really sad thing about all this is that the vast majority of people that do not belong to this forum have absolutely no idea of payload or the possible consequences of not staying in their payload limit.

 

[Carpmart]

The really sad thing about all this is that the vast majority of people that do not belong to this forum have absolutely no idea of payload or the possible consequences of not staying in their payload limit.

I knew when I wasn’t a member. You’d think that the average Brits IQ would enable compliance and that it’s a small minority who aren’t intelligent enough to work it out, not the majority! But then you may be correct…

 

[bigtree]

There was a motorhome hire company regularly posted on the local facebook page 6 berth vans, I asked numerous times what the payload was, never ever got a reply.

 

[WESTY66]

The really sad thing about all this is that the vast majority of people that do not belong to this forum have absolutely no idea of payload or the possible consequences of not staying in their payload limit.

There’s a lot on here don’t care either
In fact there’s a distinguished member on here running his new van overweight He’s even tried fitting lithium and victron stuff to try and get the weight down

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Carpmart]

There’s a lot on here don’t care either
In fact there’s a distinguished member on here running his new van overweight He’s even tried fitting lithium and victron stuff to try and get the weight down

I thought I knew who you were referring to, but the distinguished bit threw me…

 

[bigtree]

There’s a lot on here don’t care either
In fact there’s a distinguished member on here running his new van overweight He’s even tried fitting lithium and victron stuff to try and get the weight down

You’re a bit slow, already been mentioned.

 

[Brianmor]

I knew when I wasn’t a member. You’d think that the average Brits IQ would enable compliance and that it’s a small minority who aren’t intelligent enough to work it out, not the majority! But then you may be correct…

How many car drivers are aware of payload, it's normally when the wheel arches start rubbing the tyres, then it's overloaded. Commercial vehicle owners would be aware of " payload " but I bet prospective or newbie mh owners wouldn't.
As I always said to my apprentices you don't know what you don't know.

 

[WESTY66]

You’re a bit slow, already been mentioned.

So it has my bad

 

[Spriddler]

The really sad thing about all this is that the vast majority of people that do not belong to this forum have absolutely no idea of payload or the possible consequences of not staying in their payload limit.

Yep, I'd been motorhoming (solo) for 25 years and that was me until I subscribed to Fun ten years ago. I hadn't given a thought to looking at the VIN plate rating (even if I had I wouldn't have known to what the figures referred anyway) although it had vaguely crossed my mind that I shouldn't overload it.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Carpmart]

How many car drivers are aware of payload, it's normally when the wheel arches start rubbing the tyres, then it's overloaded. Commercial vehicle owners would be aware of " payload " but I bet prospective or newbie mh owners wouldn't.
As I always said to my apprentices you don't know what you don't know.

It’s true, we none of us know what we don’t know! However if you know you don’t know, but know you should know, that’s negligent and irresponsible. If you don’t know you don’t know, then you don’t know. That’s where smarter people use their nonce and go and find out if there are important things they don’t know they don’t know relative to a new thing they are doing, in this case driving a large leisure vehicle! I bet you did!

None of us can legislate for complete dumb ass’s.

 

[L' Hobo]

It’s true, we none of us know what we don’t know! However if you know you don’t know, but know you should know, that’s negligent and irresponsible. If you don’t know you don’t know, then you don’t know. That’s where smarter people use their nonce and go and find out if there are important things they don’t know they don’t know relative to a new thing they are doing, in this case driving a large leisure vehicle! I bet you did!

None of us can legislate for complete dumb ass’s.

Now there an idea to cut polution, an IQ test before the driving test if they want to drive a ICE vehicle.

 

[Al n Val]

Bloody hell Al you've gone from blowing £225k to trying to safe £3.5k did you not get that pay cheque in the end

I’m having to go down t’other route Dave hence trying to get legal. I’m not bothered about £3.5k tbh but if I haven’t got to spend it I won’t as it’ll pay for a lot of diesel and wine

 

[Al n Val]

Don't quite understand how you got to that weight. Having said that don't know what Rapido and advised payload.

Do you need a second weighbridge check elsewhere?

TBH neither do I, that said i’ve added 3 large solar panels with 3 Victron controllers, a multiplus 2, removed 2 SuperB 95ah batteries and replaced with 2 x 280ah Fogstar.

Thule 5m awning, Truma Aircon, EP leveller’s, spare wheel, 2x 11kg Gaslow,

2 recliner chairs, 2 collapsing chairs, Windbreak,10 ltrs Adblue, and other bits n bats

But I still can’t get all that to 1180kgs which is the difference between 5000-4220 which is what the Rapido supposedly weighs

 

[MichaelT]

Waste water? I suppose it depends where you're stopped.

I've previously said numerous times that all dealers should have to provide a weight cert of the van as it stands, for sale in their yard. Many advertise stuff with 400kg payload and fail to mention that actually, it is 270kg as it was specced with a 2nd battery, a solar panel etc etc... My point about empty weight and is that if you know it to start with, you should quickly suss that you'll be well overweight in travelling trim and do something about it prior to a trip. (reading many threads about weight, many seem to know they're likely to be overweight (the French especially !!!), ignore it and may well moan if stopped and made to unload or fined....folk are funny) knowing empty weight also allows people on the borderline to travel with 20% to 50% water and know they're well within...and to get into the habit of emptying the waste when leaving a site to ensure they stay 'legal'.
Empty and laden, I know both of ours...cost me all of about £20 for two trips to the weighbridge. (Another amusing aspect of ownership....hearing people with £75k MoHos moaning about £25 for a trip to get weighed....)

I'm saying if you're weighed and need to lose some weight and you've not been on a site would PC Plod allow you to dump waste water on the road or is that fly tipping/dumping?

Weighing when full is the only way, even if you are under the plate weight you may still be well over axle weight especially on rear.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}