WARNING! NEW Mobile Phone Laws

[Coolcats]

All distractions in a vehicle should be switched off/banned and that includes the 'sexy' technology pushed by Car companies it really is not required. It is aimed at driving sales not making driving safer

A company that makes Tesla look like last century's technology is Luminar who are working with Toyota, whilst I think that big screens in cars should be banned this video from Luminar make interesting viewing.

 

[Paulypaul]

I like to consider myself a safe driver and therefore in the interest of road safety, I have taken the decision to reduce any distractions.

No more steering with me elbows for me....

 

[ambulancekidd]

And breathing



In fact lets just ban everything.

Lol, I take your point, but some people forget that driving is quite a complicated process, some find it easier that others.

So going by the hypothesis of a chain only being as weak as its weakest link, try thinking of the kind of people who find driving difficult.
We could argue that those people shouldn't be driving as they have no common sense, however they are allowed to drive & common sense isn't common.

I passed my test over 40yrs ago & I've never had a collision (unless you include someone reversing into me in an IKEA car park when I was stationary) & I still enjoy driving, but one of my closest friends just shouldn't be driving, he is utterly clueless to what others are doing, he works on the premise that if its not his fault, then its not his problem, to sit next to him is properly scary.

You clearly drive many miles in a year & are obviously quite switched on, so you'll have noticed how many clueless drivers you see in a day, cos I certainly have. The thought of some of these people on a phone & smoking a fag scares me witless.

 

[nicholsong]

Which is again why the law should be enforced vigorously, but only the law and not the personal thoughts and ramblings of an individual police officer.

Which then brings us to the charge of 'Careless Driving'.

There is no definition in law, except to some case law in higher courts which create a precedent.

This where we get into the controversy of what is careless for a driver with minimal skills and experience, compared with one of superior skills and experience.

On the experience point I think that those with many thousands of miles are alert visually to any unusual movement of another vehicle whether in direct, peripheral or mirror vision. Also one's scan of these areas is probably more frequent, because one does not have to concentrate on the road ahead so much because one has already assessed that and knows what is required in the next seconds.

As far as skills, I think there are a lot of operators of 3-dimensional machinery who have honed sills to observe and react to situations occurring by the second and have been tested accordingly. from my own profession as a pilot we were tested every 6 months on being able to handle in 3 dimensions say an 50-60tonne aircraft one-handed, while controlling the throttles, looking at the chart and talking to ATC, with an emergency thrown in.

I wonder whether police officers are trained to take into account the varying skills and experience of drivers before deciding to refer the case to the CPS for Careless or Dangerous Driving, because a driver has taken his hand off the wheel to press a button (one does it to change gear many times in a journey) or do they just charge and leave the driver hanging until the court decides?

Geoff

 

[joe and sue]

I wonder how many drivers comply with the changes made on the 29th January. I'm very surprised there have been no reported fatalities of pedestrians being run over when crossing the road at a T junction. In my experience so far, some drivers are aware and give way, the rest think they have the right of way because they are on the road and the pedestrian still on the footpath waiting to cross, so continue with many not indicating either. I wont mention the new laws for cyclist's.

Hmm, best not to mention the dreaded Ct!)&st$

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[joe and sue]

Here is a document from The House of Commons library explaining in plain language, not only what you can and can’t do, but in most cases the logic behind it. I found it very useful.

Broken Link Removed

Plain language from the House of Commons, that's a bit of an oxymoron !!

 

[The Dotties]

To go off at a slight tangent, does anybody know where I can get a phone holder/cradle for a Smart 453 with the premium radio pack.
There are no flat surfaces to apply a sticky pad to, and the windscreen would be obstructed if it was put there. There’s plenty out there but nothing specific.
Jaws

 

[Trevor Wbm]

I think if you re read my post, you would see that I said 'if that would happen', meaning I would already be in the custody suite! - unfortunately you may think the individual police officers have every right to say and do what that want to do and if you disagree they MAY and do have the right, to decide to become awkward/over enthusiastic.
I have a different view, the individual police officers should not treat anyone differently just because they refuse to take part in an egoistical exercise by an individual officer. If I have committed an offence, fine me and move on, don't try pontificating to me, because I won't listen to you.
To suggest I should just accept a 'lecture' from the individual officer and if not they would then go on to subject me to further tests and checks because of my attitude feels corrupt (in terms of process) and threatening.
I want my police force to treat everyone the same irrespective of the reverence shown towards them. A police officer being 'awkward' because they don't like someone's attitude doesn't seem to be professional, subjecting someone to further 'examination' IS valid for a valid reason. To suggest I should not tell a police officer to do one if they start to try to lecture me on my actions instead of just issuing a penalty because they might be a little bit upset and decide to 'punish' me further, seems wrong to me, as though we should be scared of the police, when we should in fact respect the role they play in society.
I could go further and suggest that of course individual police are never wrong in either their application or knowledge of the law .... but even then I am not scared of them as individuals not liking my response ...

Speaking as ex-plod, something to consider is that if you were prepared to tolerate the advice, that might well be all that happened. Preferring prosecution to a slightly bruised ego seems a bit odd.

 

[iandsm]

Aye and unfortunately its once again double standards . You can be charged with wasting police time . But they are free to waste yours with no other reason other than to waste your time.

That's why very few have any respect for them.

Correct, but only if you wind them up

 

[Northernraider]

Correct, but only if you wind them up

And you think thats ok?


So they pull you over for no reason, and then when you object to them wasting your time they waste even more of your time , making you late so you then have to drive faster , stressed to make up the time they wasted.



Yeah i can see that only making sense to the keystones themselves.

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[iandsm]

And you think thats ok?


So they pull you over for no reason, and then when you object to them wasting your time they waste even more of your time , making you late so you then have to drive faster , stressed to make up the time they wasted.



Yeah i can see that only making sense to the keystones themselves.

No one has suggested they pull you over for no reason, but if you do get pulled over for whatever reason and then give them a load of mouth you only have yourself to blame.

Mind if I ask why you are so bitter?

 

[Jaws]

To go off at a slight tangent, does anybody know where I can get a phone holder/cradle for a Smart 453 with the premium radio pack.
There are no flat surfaces to apply a sticky pad to, and the windscreen would be obstructed if it was put there. There’s plenty out there but nothing specific.
Jaws

Not a clue mate.. My fone stays in my pocket !

 

[busby]

I
The fine money is....fine. It's the 3 points (for every offence) that worry's me more, I wonder how many they could charge you for on one prosecution happening?

Should be 6 points.. BUSBY.

 

[Justus3]

Which then brings us to the charge of 'Careless Driving'.

There is no definition in law, except to some case law in higher courts which create a precedent.

This where we get into the controversy of what is careless for a driver with minimal skills and experience, compared with one of superior skills and experience.

On the experience point I think that those with many thousands of miles are alert visually to any unusual movement of another vehicle whether in direct, peripheral or mirror vision. Also one's scan of these areas is probably more frequent, because one does not have to concentrate on the road ahead so much because one has already assessed that and knows what is required in the next seconds.

As far as skills, I think there are a lot of operators of 3-dimensional machinery who have honed sills to observe and react to situations occurring by the second and have been tested accordingly. from my own profession as a pilot we were tested every 6 months on being able to handle in 3 dimensions say an 50-60tonne aircraft one-handed, while controlling the throttles, looking at the chart and talking to ATC, with an emergency thrown in.

I wonder whether police officers are trained to take into account the varying skills and experience of drivers before deciding to refer the case to the CPS for Careless or Dangerous Driving, because a driver has taken his hand off the wheel to press a button (one does it to change gear many times in a journey) or do they just charge and leave the driver hanging until the court decides?

Geoff

The same way other court cases are the police investigate and summit a file to CPS. They decided if a legal threshold is met and if they support the change brought by the police. The definition in law is well accepted as being if the driver fall short of standards expected by other drivers trained to the same standard. Which regardless of personal experience which is hard to prove without reasonable doubt.
Is based on the standard driving test taken by all drivers. The defence my wish to use other experience as part of the defence. But the police and CPS don't they go on the law and what it see's as a crime and whether it would stand up in court. Dangerous Driving is seen as falling well short of standard expected. More often downgraded to lesser careless charge as the CPS see it as too much work and hard to prove. Or at the last minute the defence advise them to plead guilty and accept a careless charge if CPS agree. To avoid facing a higher sentence.

 

[Northernraider]

No one has suggested they pull you over for no reason, but if you do get pulled over for whatever reason and then give them a load of mouth you only have yourself to blame.

Mind if I ask why you are so bitter?

Simple


Ive been pulled over many times for no good reason.

One memorable example was two cops pulling me over in a vw camper on my own street 5 doors away from my house blue lights and a blip of the siren .
Two plod get out one older one young ....straight off the batt the old one says its ok sir no problem the young lad is thinking of buying one and wanted a look .


Total merchant bankers

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[L' Hobo]

This thread has reminded me of the late 70's, early 80's when my trucking company had cutting edge communications!

This consisted of each of my trucks having a BT (or was it Post Office in those days) cigarette packet size pager, if a job came in, my Transport Manager could contact me, or another driver, and then we would have to find a phone-box and ring the depot for details.

However did we manage when we could not communicate with each other, 24hrs a day!

Is it any wonder I didn't make a fortune??

(We use to laugh about this sort of communication device on Star Trek, I wonder how long it will be before we are saying, "Beam me up Scotty"? )

PS. I still will not answer my mobile while driving, life's too short, and most things can wait!

 

[Trevor Wbm]

Simple


Ive been pulled over many times for no good reason.

One memorable example was two cops pulling me over in a vw camper on my own street 5 doors away from my house blue lights and a blip of the siren .
Two plod get out one older one young ....straight off the batt the old one says its ok sir no problem the young lad is thinking of buying one and wanted a look .


Total merchant bankers

To be fair, they had a reason to stop you, just not a good one. I guess if they'd legitimised it by giving you an HORT1 'producer' and had you trotting off to the nick with your documents that would have been better.

 

[Nigel P]

This is a short video provided by a telecoms company! Designed to show how many people become part of a simple scenario due to one error of judgement.

 

[Northernraider]

To be fair, they had a reason to stop you, just not a good one. I guess if they'd legitimised it by giving you an HORT1 'producer' and had you trotting off to the nick with your documents that would have been better.

Oh they've done that plenty times in the past too . I made a formal complaint in the mid 90's to the local constabulary due to the sheer amount of times i got stopped purely because i drove modified and custom vehicles. The complaint was acknowledged and i received a letter of apology etc ...the usual bull . But it didn't have much affect i still got tailed and intimidated for a long time afterwards. In fact i only think it stopped when i moved from the area. But over the last few years doing delivery work ive been pulled over a fair bit too. Ive heard every excuse known to man for doing so but as yet theres been no actual reason other than random boredom from police desperate to do anything other than solve the crimes already committed instead of looking for petty easy fineable incidents that haven't been committed.

And looking at the state of some of them they couldn't catch a criminal if he lay down in front of them.

I thought police were required to pass w medical and have a certain level of fitness but some are like house ends

 

[Trevor Wbm]

Oh they've done that plenty times in the past too . I made a formal complaint in the mid 90's to the local constabulary due to the sheer amount of times i got stopped purely because i drove modified and custom vehicles. The complaint was acknowledged and i received a letter of apology etc ...the usual bull . But it didn't have much affect i still got tailed and intimidated for a long time afterwards. In fact i only think it stopped when i moved from the area. But over the last few years doing delivery work ive been pulled over a fair bit too. Ive heard every excuse known to man for doing so but as yet theres been no actual reason other than random boredom from police desperate to do anything other than solve the crimes already committed instead of looking for petty easy fineable incidents that haven't been committed.

And looking at the state of some of them they couldn't catch a criminal if he lay down in front of them.

I thought police were required to pass w medical and have a certain level of fitness but some are like house ends

I'm sensing you're not a fan. I've been stopped once in 48 years, never had any outward signs of what I did for a living on the vehicles.

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[Northernraider]

This is a short video provided by a telecoms company! Designed to show how many people become part of a simple scenario due to one error of judgement.

Stupid move.

BUT

See if she hadn't been trying to hide the phone and had picked it up held it in front of her to glance at it there's a good chance that wouldn't have happened.

Folk that text , read emails etc etc on phones when driving do need a slap but i don't believe touching a screen on a bracket to activate a call , end a call change a music track etc is any different from pressing the button to put heating on off wipers etc etc etc . And listening to a call is no different from listening to the radio .

Different capabilities between different people.

Some are dumb

 

[Northernraider]

I'm sensing you're not a fan. I've been stopped once in 48 years, never had any outward signs of what I did for a living on the vehicles.

That's why you have a different perspective.

Thats fine . But when youve constantly been harassed you gain a different perspective.

Thats why many whites don't understand black lives
Many straights don't understand gay lives

And many people who have never had negative experience with police dont understand why many can't stand them.

And id hate to imagine how anyone who's actually committed a crime at some point , paid for it but get continually harrassed by police feel about it.

Because ive seen their arrogant approach of assuming your guilty till you prove your innocence way too many times.

 

[Northernraider]

Speaking as ex-plod, something to consider is that if you were prepared to tolerate the advice, that might well be all that happened. Preferring prosecution to a slightly bruised ego seems a bit odd.

There is no ego bigger than that of a police officer.

They also don't like to be wrong. And will never apologise when they are.


P.s . Thats your reason for not being hassled . You're ex plod yourself. Theres a few of you on here who always attempt to justify their crappy attitude and defend the police because that is generally the only people police defend ... themselves.




This channel is constantly showing up our nation's finest for their lovely attitude towards the public.

 

[Trevor Wbm]

There is no ego bigger than that of a police officer.

They also don't like to be wrong. And will never apologise when they are.


P.s . Thats your reason for not being hassled . You're ex plod yourself. Theres a few of you on here who always attempt to justify their crappy attitude and defend the police because that is generally the only people police defend ... themselves.




This channel is constantly showing up our nation's finest for their lovely attitude towards the public.

Aye, definitely not a fan.

 

[Northernraider]

Aye, definitely not a fan.

I think i said that about 6 comments ago.

Even boris ranks higher than the police in my tolerance

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[Paulypaul]

Oh they've done that plenty times in the past too . I made a formal complaint in the mid 90's to the local constabulary due to the sheer amount of times i got stopped purely because i drove modified and custom vehicles. The complaint was acknowledged and i received a letter of apology etc ...the usual bull . But it didn't have much affect i still got tailed and intimidated for a long time afterwards. In fact i only think it stopped when i moved from the area. But over the last few years doing delivery work ive been pulled over a fair bit too. Ive heard every excuse known to man for doing so but as yet theres been no actual reason other than random boredom from police desperate to do anything other than solve the crimes already committed instead of looking for petty easy fineable incidents that haven't been committed.

And looking at the state of some of them they couldn't catch a criminal if he lay down in front of them.

I thought police were required to pass w medical and have a certain level of fitness but some are like house ends

I also thought they had to take an aptitude test...clearly not

 

[Nigel P]

Stupid move.

BUT

See if she hadn't been trying to hide the phone and had picked it up held it in front of her to glance at it there's a good chance that wouldn't have happened.

Folk that text , read emails etc etc on phones when driving do need a slap but i don't believe touching a screen on a bracket to activate a call , end a call change a music track etc is any different from pressing the button to put heating on off wipers etc etc etc . And listening to a call is no different from listening to the radio .

Different capabilities between different people.

Some are dumb

We may have to disagree on that one. There is substantial research into cognitive function which assesses drivers who are subjected to controlled distractions, telephone conversations with or without hands-free consistently show poorer responses to traffic scenarios. The video is an illustration of how some drivers are unable to separate out driving from other tasks; the phone dominates. I don't need to speak or look at the controls on my cars to operate the wipers or heater or radio, there is no cognitive interaction for those tasks but engaging in a conversation is significantly different to passively listening to the radio. I think the point the video makes is that the phone is not important, anything it is offering can wait.

 

[Northernraider]

We may have to disagree on that one. There is substantial research into cognitive function which assesses drivers who are subjected to controlled distractions, telephone conversations with or without hands-free consistently show poorer responses to traffic scenarios. The video is an illustration of how some drivers are unable to separate out driving from other tasks; the phone dominates. I don't need to speak or look at the controls on my cars to operate the wipers or heater or radio, there is no cognitive interaction for those tasks but engaging in a conversation is significantly different to passively listening to the radio. I think the point the video makes is that the phone is not important, anything it is offering can wait.

Maybe im just better at having a conversation while driving than you are

I constantly see people driving who turn their heads to the side to talk to a passenger. Something ive never done.

But then do we ban everyone from carrying passengers in cars?

Taxi , police, fire, ambulance etc etc all communicate on devices while driving .

And don't give me the "trained" argument because the training basically consists of someone with a clipboard sitting in the vehicle and deciding if the driver can talk and drive at the same time.


Im trained in making tea and toast while driving but i don't brag about it

 

[gus-lopez]

If the phone is in the cradle can you use it in speakerphone mode?

Only if it answers automatically and cancels at call end.you can't touch it

It is time that all hands free calls were banned while driving too.

Along with speaking to passengers. Exactly the same.

Really???

I thought touching a fully blown sat nav was banned, where does the new law state you can setup/change Satnav settings on the move?

You can't touch it.

Smoking DD....Who smokes in a car these days.

The people who don't have the time to waste stopping and standing outside for a fag.

" I would tell them to go and do one and not listen to them" That, I would suggest could well the start of a journey to a custody suite. If not you ay be having a vehicle safety check, anything and everything they can think of that takes as long as possible and then you might have an eyesight test to.

And? They also need to remember their shift ends at sometime

Yes, that's how I read it now but I definitely saw an article saying that, as long as the satnav/phone is attached to the car, it can be touched. I won't be risking it.

Yes that is the problem with writers . Many write rubbish.

. In regard to the rest I’d suggest you don’t try it. Unless you fancy seeing the custody Sergeant from the wrong side of the desk. A

You mean like he might not be wanting to see me at his house either? & no it wouldn't be "threat" but a promise.

Then again attitudes like yours are why the county has such a gun-how view of traffic safety and law

And that is only because they allow complete moronic half wits to drive who shouldn't be allowed out walking. If you aren't a vehicular aficionado and worship the ice vehicle and its invention, if you think it is a type of motorised walking or a means of getting from A to B ,then you should be banned from any vehicular driving sine die.

but not a lecture on the morals of my actions and if that led to further interactions then I would submit a strong complaint on the behaviour of the individual police officer, who is there to enforce the law.

Yes most love a lecture on there perceived view of what they alleged you have committed.

Yet again an example of the total "who cares" view to traffic law and safely of others. All because taking that "important" call is worth more than the life of a human.

As above they shouldn't be driving. The only way to prevent them is broken legs.

Hey People - just to let you know that there are IDIOT SCUM on the road WHO PERSIST IN TEXTING while driving............

Yes,just tell them not to run in to me. Id still be beating them 3 weeks next Tuesday fortnight.

if you were prepared to tolerate the advice, that might well be all that happened.

Advice or a diatribe?

Correct, but only if you wind them up

And there's just as many in the job who specialise in it.

Mind if I ask why you are so bitter?

For me, back in the late 70's I'm n London having to deal on a daily basis at our factory with 40 or 50 male coppers ,continually asking for free product,(All okay by the owner as they were "useful mates", ) who were the most hypocritical bunch of two faced crooks you would ever come across. And who,when confronted about their hypocritical attitude would think nothing of issuing both veiled &direct threats.
Fortunately it didn't work with me as I have photographs of them all.
*One day my production controller pointed out that between 5 &7% of our weekly production went out foc in police cars,vans, on foot etc
That was 15 to 22,000 items.
That's only one instance.

They also don't like to be wrong. And will never apologise when they are.

Yes that's another problem,then want to get funny when you pull them up on it.

 

[gus-lopez]

but engaging in a conversation is significantly different to passively listening to the radio.

It is still a distraction.

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