VW T5 won’t start

[DerryW]

I'd be getting the fuel rail pressure tested or failing that, crank it over with the injector feeds slackened off to at least make sure the diesel is actually getting to them, if it is, it must be a sensor/timing fault or not enough pressure from the pump ?

Jockaneezer
If it starts using brake cleaner, would that not rule out a timing issue. ?

Thanks Derry

 

[jockaneezer]

DerryW, It really depends on what they class as "starting" ?
If it runs for a couple of seconds and then dies, then that's just the Easy Start that's hanging around the inlet/filter providing the fuel source and once that's used up, the motor will stop, if it starts, then continues to run indefinitely, then that's a slightly different problem.
Because Easy Start or brake cleaner is much more volatile than diesel, so it doesn't really care which part of the stroke it's injected in, as long as the compression is good enough to heat up the air in the cylinder it will ignite, often well before top dead centre. This can be an issue with the overuse of Easy Start as it can cause the mixture to ignite way too soon (knocking), which can make that cylinder want to go back down, whilst the starter motor is trying to get it to continue to go up. Overuse can knock the big ends to bits !
If the timing's off and the diesel gets injected too late in the cycle (sensor issues), it will just get exhausted out with no ignition occurring, too soon in the stroke and the really fine diesel mist that's needed for ignition will just turn into droplets and won't ignite either.

 

[rod_vw]

Chris

Thanks very much for the link. Unfortunately the engine in BiL vehicle is a VW 2.5 AXD these don’t have a timing belt of chain, instead have have timing gears.

Interesting video all the same. Shows how easy it is to set of on the complete wrong track if you rely solely on the diagnostics reading. I would like to think a trained VW technician would know this.

Thanks once again.

One of the best engines they ever fitted in a T5! I had one with that engine fitted.

 

[ChrisL]

Jockaneezer
If it starts using brake cleaner, would that not rule out a timing issue. ?

Thanks Derry

You'll remember in that video I posted that once the cam sensor was disconnected it ran, so timing may well be the issue if the 2.5 AXD uses a similar method of timing.

 

[DerryW]

DerryW, It really depends on what they class as "starting" ?
If it runs for a couple of seconds and then dies, then that's just the Easy Start that's hanging around the inlet/filter providing the fuel source and once that's used up, the motor will stop, if it starts, then continues to run indefinitely, then that's a slightly different problem.
Because Easy Start or brake cleaner is much more volatile than diesel, so it doesn't really care which part of the stroke it's injected in, as long as the compression is good enough to heat up the air in the cylinder it will ignite, often well before top dead centre. This can be an issue with the overuse of Easy Start as it can cause the mixture to ignite way too soon (knocking), which can make that cylinder want to go back down, whilst the starter motor is trying to get it to continue to go up. Overuse can knock the big ends to bits !
If the timing's off and the diesel gets injected too late in the cycle (sensor issues), it will just get exhausted out with no ignition occurring, too soon in the stroke and the really fine diesel mist that's needed for ignition will just turn into droplets and won't ignite either.

Thanks for your response, you clearly understand the workings of Diesel engine far better than me. Can I take it from your response that it could be a timing issue. This was suggested by the very first person who did a diagnostic test on it and ruled out any electrical issues. When the mobile guy from the Cambridge diesel specialist turned up he was unable to pin point the issue using his diagnostics equipment, and said it needed to go into a workshop, hence the reason for it being taken the 30 miles into their workshop.
Some has suggested it might have a tooth broken on the timing gear.

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[L' Hobo]

Thanks for your response, you clearly understand the workings of Diesel engine far better than me. Can I take it from your response that it could be a timing issue. This was suggested by the very first person who did a diagnostic test on it and ruled out any electrical issues. When the mobile guy from the Cambridge diesel specialist turned up he was unable to pin point the issue using his diagnostics equipment, and said it needed to go into a workshop, hence the reason for it being taken the 30 miles into their workshop.
Some has suggested it might have a tooth broken on the timing gear.

IF it was a timing issue, I would have expected it to throw up a fault AND if the companies that have had it since June, have not checked the timing, they are taking the p***!

As for Easy Start, it is sprayed into the air filter port, not directly into the cylinder so, can only be drawn in on the induction stroke.
Most problems with Easy Start etc. is usually cause by using excess which can cause excess cylinder pressure and explosive fumes hanging around the engine.

As I said before, IMO, unless it is used in a measured fashion, it should never be used.

 

[DerryW]

You'll remember in that video I posted that once the cam sensor was disconnected it ran, so timing may well be the issue if the 2.5 AXD uses a similar method of timing.

ChrisL
No, the timing on the AXD engine does not have a belt or chain. It uses a series of Gears

thanks again for responding.

Derry

 

[DerryW]

Something I don't understand is, if it starts and runs OKAY on ANOTHER form of fuel, it HAS to be something connected with the fuel doesn't it.
It can't be timing surely?


Just as an aside, about 15 years ago, I bought a £300+ UNIVERSAL Cylinder Pressure Check set made by Tool makers, Laser It has all the different fittings to fit all different types of older type injectors.

It has never been used BUT if it's any help to this situation, you are more than welcome to borrow it.

(Afterwards, if anyone wants to make me a reasonable offer for it, get in touch.)

Thanks for the offer, unfortunately I wouldn’t have the wherewithal to use them

 

[BaileySteve]

I think the only way to be certain is to run a separate fuel supply as recommended. They need to then do a measured leak off test at the injectors, this will confirm fuel is being delivered to the rail. Workshop appear to have only bench tested injectors so should have carried this out, but having nor refitted them would assume they are all ok.

My guess is you have something loose in the bottom of the tank that’s getting sucked into the pickup which was still there after the flush. Remember something similar on an old LDV 200 series where a leaf had got into the tank, had to take the tank completely off before it came out.

 

[jockaneezer]

I think the only way to be certain is to run a separate fuel supply as recommended. They need to then do a measured leak off test at the injectors, this will confirm fuel is being delivered to the rail. Workshop appear to have only bench tested injectors so should have carried this out, but having nor refitted them would assume they are all ok.

My guess is you have something loose in the bottom of the tank that’s getting sucked into the pickup which was still there after the flush. Remember something similar on an old LDV 200 series where a leaf had got into the tank, had to take the tank completely off before it came out.

We had a similar fault on our LKT skidder, one of the lads misplaced the fuel filler cap, so replaced it with one of those disposable rubber gloves to keep the rain out, but one of the fingers became detached and would block the suction, but would drop off after it was left, allowing you to run it for a bit until it sucked it up again.

1. Edit, just in from the pub and as @L'Hobo says the Easy Start will only be drawn in on the induction stroke,but can still fire up prematurely, causing knocking.
2. Lots of people denigrate Easy Start as it's usually hiding or compensating for existing faults and overuse is to be discouraged, but as an aside, our old Mercedes Unimog came from the factory with a cold start feature that was a can of ether (Easy Start) that was plumbed into the inlet manifold and was operated from a lever in the cab, so I always maintain it's use is viable under certain conditions ?

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[Bertilak]

Are we not forgetting this engine has PD unit injectors with electronic control of how much to inject?
To my mind the fact that it got home suggests the problem is in injection control rather than physical fuel supply. Not switching on the lift pump, or pump failure, is also possible; but easy to check by listening.
If it was injector failure surely it would still run on 4 pots?

These engines are also famous for the loom that controls the injectors failing, as it's inside the cam cover and the insulation hardens and cracks. Mine dropped a cylinder occasionally, but if eg a common earth wire broke you could lose the lot.

 

[DerryW]

Are we not forgetting this engine has PD unit injectors with electronic control of how much to inject?
To my mind the fact that it got home suggests the problem is in injection control rather than physical fuel supply. Not switching on the lift pump, or pump failure, is also possible; but easy to check by listening.
If it was injector failure surely it would still run on 4 pots?

These engines are also famous for the loom that controls the injectors failing, as it's inside the cam cover and the insulation hardens and cracks. Mine dropped a cylinder occasionally, but if eg a common earth wire broke you could lose the lot.

Are we not forgetting this engine has PD unit injectors with electronic control of how much to inject?
To my mind the fact that it got home suggests the problem is in injection control rather than physical fuel supply. Not switching on the lift pump, or pump failure, is also possible; but easy to check by listening.
If it was injector failure surely it would still run on 4 pots?

These engines are also famous for the loom that controls the injectors failing, as it's inside the cam cover and the insulation hardens and cracks. Mine dropped a cylinder occasionally, but if eg a common earth wire broke you could lose the lot.

Bertilac
Thanks for your response.
Prior to the vehicle not starting back in Dec 2023 there had been no issues, it always started and drove with no problems.

The following is all that the VW workshop have done to the vehicle, since it was trailered to them in June 2024, in date order. but to no avail, it will only start and run for a few seconds before cutting out when they spray brake cleaner into it.

27/06/2024
We have had a look at your vehicle and found that the fuel pressure seems to be low from the tandem fuel pump, to check this correctly we will have to carry out a fuel pressure test with a gauge attached to the tandem pump, there is very little fuel coming out of the relief valve however the fuel does go through the head to the injectors so this test would check that, this would explain the vehicle cutting out after 7000 miles, this is one of the first tests we can carry out but further wiring checks would need to be carried out if the fuel pressure is ok.
23/07/2024
We cleaned the fuel tank and the pump as best as we can but there is still a staining on the pump. Cleaning this allowed us to test the fuel system with new diesel in the system.
I have spoken to my master technician and he’s fairly confident that it’s a fuel issue as the fuel is leaving the tank but not reaching the cylinders. The next stage is removing the rocker cover on the engine, checking the fuel rail and testing the injectors. The injectors might need to be sent away to an injector specialist for tests as we need the engine running for us to be able to carry out the tests.
07/08/2024
We have removed the camshaft cover to inspect and test all the wiring on the harness inside the cover, this is all ok, we have removed the fuel rail and cleaned inside to make sure there are no blockages inside, the injectors seem to be working when inspected visually, however we are a bit concerned about the pressure getting to the fuel rail from the tandem pump. The pressure we have is 1.5 bar from the pump on cranking however Volkswagen state it should be 7.5 bar at 1500rpm, there are no figures to test the pressure on cranking. We would suggest replacing the tandem pump to eliminate this problem (they are now obsolete so would have to be sourced somewhere else. There is currently a non genuine one fitted to the vehicle) we have also checked signals to and from the injectors and camshaft sensor using the oscilloscope, these tests all showed good results. After this has been replaced, we would have to carry out further tests and advise on any further repairs.
05/09/2024
We've fitted the tandem fuel pump but it hasn't fixed the issue unfortunately. I've spoken to our technician and we are currently awaiting a response from VWUK technical to assist us.
27/09/2024
Telephone conversation. saying it needs a new ECU but VW no longer stock these as they are obsolete due to vehicle age. We managed to source an ECU which was delivered and fitted by VW.
10/10/2024
The engine ECU has allowed to get the vehicle started and running using brake cleaner to assist, however it still cuts out after a short period of time. This is good news as we are moving forward.
The next stage of the investigation is to remove the injectors and send them of for test to a diesel specialist who would carryout a mechanical and electronic test.
04/11/2024
Telephone conversation. All 5 injectors have failed, 3 on mechanical and 2 electrical very low resistance.
VW no longer stock the injectors they are obsolete due to vehicle age.
We sourced 5 factory refurbished injectors at £600, these were delivered and fitted by VW.
05/12/2024
Fitted the refurbished injectors and set them up, then carried out a manual bleed but the vehicle still isn’t starting unless its on brake cleaner. We’ve followed our guided fault-finding procedure and a test plan that asked us to check a crankshaft sensor (This had been replaced before coming to us) and wiring. We have rechecked these and have found nothing wrong. We’ve scoped the wiring and have found a signal so everything there is okay. We has then checked the timing for the crankshaft and camshaft which are all okay.



Out tech has put his head together with the two master techs from VW passenger cars but is unfortunately lost on where to go next. Up to this point we have been able to justify the repairs that have been carried out, along with your agreement, but feel anything further from here would be a calculated guess. All along out tech has been committed to getting an end resolve but despite extensive experience between many technicians it does appear we have reached a point where there is no clear direction to go. If you would like to drop in again and discuss this further directly, or would prefer to arrange a phone call , then of course he would be happy to have a chat.

this is the final comms from VW.

Any tips as to where to look at,

thanks Derry

 

[Bertilak]

Bertilac
Thanks for your response.
Prior to the vehicle not starting back in Dec 2023 there had been no issues, it always started and drove with no problems.

The following is all that the VW workshop have done to the vehicle, since it was trailered to them in June 2024, in date order. but to no avail, it will only start and run for a few seconds before cutting out when they spray brake cleaner into it.

27/06/2024
We have had a look at your vehicle and found that the fuel pressure seems to be low from the tandem fuel pump, to check this correctly we will have to carry out a fuel pressure test with a gauge attached to the tandem pump, there is very little fuel coming out of the relief valve however the fuel does go through the head to the injectors so this test would check that, this would explain the vehicle cutting out after 7000 miles, this is one of the first tests we can carry out but further wiring checks would need to be carried out if the fuel pressure is ok.
23/07/2024
We cleaned the fuel tank and the pump as best as we can but there is still a staining on the pump. Cleaning this allowed us to test the fuel system with new diesel in the system.
I have spoken to my master technician and he’s fairly confident that it’s a fuel issue as the fuel is leaving the tank but not reaching the cylinders. The next stage is removing the rocker cover on the engine, checking the fuel rail and testing the injectors. The injectors might need to be sent away to an injector specialist for tests as we need the engine running for us to be able to carry out the tests.
07/08/2024
We have removed the camshaft cover to inspect and test all the wiring on the harness inside the cover, this is all ok, we have removed the fuel rail and cleaned inside to make sure there are no blockages inside, the injectors seem to be working when inspected visually, however we are a bit concerned about the pressure getting to the fuel rail from the tandem pump. The pressure we have is 1.5 bar from the pump on cranking however Volkswagen state it should be 7.5 bar at 1500rpm, there are no figures to test the pressure on cranking. We would suggest replacing the tandem pump to eliminate this problem (they are now obsolete so would have to be sourced somewhere else. There is currently a non genuine one fitted to the vehicle) we have also checked signals to and from the injectors and camshaft sensor using the oscilloscope, these tests all showed good results. After this has been replaced, we would have to carry out further tests and advise on any further repairs.
05/09/2024
We've fitted the tandem fuel pump but it hasn't fixed the issue unfortunately. I've spoken to our technician and we are currently awaiting a response from VWUK technical to assist us.
27/09/2024
Telephone conversation. saying it needs a new ECU but VW no longer stock these as they are obsolete due to vehicle age. We managed to source an ECU which was delivered and fitted by VW.
10/10/2024
The engine ECU has allowed to get the vehicle started and running using brake cleaner to assist, however it still cuts out after a short period of time. This is good news as we are moving forward.
The next stage of the investigation is to remove the injectors and send them of for test to a diesel specialist who would carryout a mechanical and electronic test.
04/11/2024
Telephone conversation. All 5 injectors have failed, 3 on mechanical and 2 electrical very low resistance.
VW no longer stock the injectors they are obsolete due to vehicle age.
We sourced 5 factory refurbished injectors at £600, these were delivered and fitted by VW.
05/12/2024
Fitted the refurbished injectors and set them up, then carried out a manual bleed but the vehicle still isn’t starting unless its on brake cleaner. We’ve followed our guided fault-finding procedure and a test plan that asked us to check a crankshaft sensor (This had been replaced before coming to us) and wiring. We have rechecked these and have found nothing wrong. We’ve scoped the wiring and have found a signal so everything there is okay. We has then checked the timing for the crankshaft and camshaft which are all okay.



Out tech has put his head together with the two master techs from VW passenger cars but is unfortunately lost on where to go next. Up to this point we have been able to justify the repairs that have been carried out, along with your agreement, but feel anything further from here would be a calculated guess. All along out tech has been committed to getting an end resolve but despite extensive experience between many technicians it does appear we have reached a point where there is no clear direction to go. If you would like to drop in again and discuss this further directly, or would prefer to arrange a phone call , then of course he would be happy to have a chat.

this is the final comms from VW.

Any tips as to where to look at,

thanks Derry

Hi Derry, my initial thought here is WOW! they've been changing everything. Fuel pump (I'd forgotten about the tandem pump, which ISTR did have a suspect reputation), ECU, injectors, sensors, wiring (I assume the part that is known to fail).

Personally I find it difficult to think it was all knackered, though maybe imperfect. Whilst I've had decades on the fringes of engine companies, and ran an AXD for 10 years, I don't have testing experience of them, and I've already listed the two engine failures mine had in 240k.

The documents say they've got fuel pressure to the injectors, they've got the firing signal, and the injectors are reconditioned and tested. All I can think is that one of them isn't telling the truth... unless there's something more subtle like the electrical signal is getting through, but not with enough amps to do anything.
(Perhaps double check the loom in the head, I spoke of - though I hope VW would know all about this.)
Beyond that I'm struggling to help. Perhaps ask the VW van groups if you haven't already. There should be more experience there.

Good luck and best wishes, Harry

 

[DerryW]

Hi Derry, my initial thought here is WOW! they've been changing everything. Fuel pump (I'd forgotten about the tandem pump, which ISTR did have a suspect reputation), ECU, injectors, sensors, wiring (I assume the part that is known to fail).

Personally I find it difficult to think it was all knackered, though maybe imperfect. Whilst I've had decades on the fringes of engine companies, and ran an AXD for 10 years, I don't have testing experience of them, and I've already listed the two engine failures mine had in 240k.

The documents say they've got fuel pressure to the injectors, they've got the firing signal, and the injectors are reconditioned and tested. All I can think is that one of them isn't telling the truth... unless there's something more subtle like the electrical signal is getting through, but not with enough amps to do anything.
(Perhaps double check the loom in the head, I spoke of - though I hope VW would know all about this.)
Beyond that I'm struggling to help. Perhaps ask the VW van groups if you haven't already. There should be more experience there.

Good luck and best wishes, Harry

harry
Thanks once again. The wiring loom for the injectors was replaced c4 years ago (unconnected to the current issue) like you said it got hard and brittle. It looks as though VW have checked that and say it’s okay (see notes dated 07/08/2024.

Personally I find it staggering that one, if not the largest VW Commercial workshop in the country are unable to rectify a problem on one of their own products. Albeit 2006 vintage.
I deliberately removed any ref to names and cost but not afraid to say cost are currently in excess of £6k.

Thanks once again.
Derry

 

[BaileySteve]

This still points to a fuel pressure issue, perhaps one of the replaced components are faulty? A fuel pressure test would need to be done again to confirm. On a T4 forum the expected pressure are shown, wouldn’t think they are too different to a T5, the link is here https://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/threads/the-tandem-pump.223104 , you may need to copy and paste.

I don’t know anything specific about VW’s, but as there have been numerous people working on this including independents I’m wondering if something hasn’t been put back together correctly at some point and everyone refits exactly the same as removed, replicating the same error.

As an example, we had a truck in a while ago where it kept cutting out with a quarter tank of fuel. It turned out the operator had replaced the sender unit and connected all three plastic fuel pipes up the wrong way round. The sender unit in this instance has three different lengths of steel pipe that are at different levels in the tank, he had connected to the feed to the highest one by mistake. Once connected correctly all worked as it should.

The three pipes in the above example were feed, return and night heater. Does your van have a Webasto or Eberspacher heater and could your pickup be from a pipe that sits higher in the tank, sucking up just enough to start but not enough to run? If you only have two pipes are the feed and return the connected correctly.

Really hope you get this sorted, may be worth contacting VW customer support to see if they can escalate to Germany. Up to now the dealer is likely to have only dealt with UK technical.

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[Sue and Rick]

Has the ecu been told that there are new injectors fitted?
Although a different engine our peugeot (ford) engine had to have the injectors coded to the ecu. VW Audi etc are notorious for coding

 

[L' Hobo]

harry
Thanks once again. The wiring loom for the injectors was replaced c4 years ago (unconnected to the current issue) like you said it got hard and brittle. It looks as though VW have checked that and say it’s okay (see notes dated 07/08/2024.

Personally I find it staggering that one, if not the largest VW Commercial workshop in the country are unable to rectify a problem on one of their own products. Albeit 2006 vintage.
I deliberately removed any ref to names and cost but not afraid to say cost are currently in excess of £6k.

Thanks once again.
Derry

As I said before, I know nothing of T5's but, on my German original LHD 1989 T25 or 3 as it should be known, it came with a complicated fuel filter which recycled the fuel to warm it in cold countries.
This had a number of pipes and connectors on top, one of which was a plastic one, this was notorious for getting broken SO as I have plenty of spare T25 parts, I changed that for the earlier simplified version. No more problems or expense.

Your VW garages have changed all the complicated, expensive parts but nothing has been mentioned about the fuel filter, has this been renewed and checked?

Often in a situation like you BIL, it's the simplest things that get overlooked. Perhaps the T5 also has a over complicated (for this country) fuel filter system that's sucking air?

 

[jockaneezer]

If it has a Bosch tandem pump fitted, these are known to snap the small drive shaft between the two pump units, meaning that the high pressure part will work, but the low pressure (sucks fuel from the tank) doesn't work.
The fact that they're saying "parts are obsolete" suggests the replacement tandem pump may also have been second hand, an unlikely scenario that they're both knackered, but something else to check ?
As someone else mentioned, I'd be setting up a temporary small fuel tank hung from the bonnet catch, gravity feeding the injector pump to see if that helps ?
Doing it this way is less invasive than actually stripping the pump, which might require an overhaul kit to reassemble it ?
The report you posted does seem quite comprehensive, if they've carried it out diligently ?

Edit: Just read L' Hobo above and it reminded me of my neighbour's '58 plate Mondeo, she had it in the garage as it cut out and wouldn't restart a couple of times (Green flag couldn't fix it) it would fire up, then stop as soon as you let go of the key, she got it towed to a garage who had it for 5 weeks and replaced the egr unit on it, but when she went for it, it took 5 cranks to get it to start !
Long story short, nosey me went for a look at it, I replaced the fuel filter (garage hadn't) and had trouble bleeding it through, even fitting an online rubber bulb primer, but I could see a lot of air in the primer's clear tubing. I slapped a bit of silicon grease on all the fuel pipe pull off connectors (filter and pump) and reseated them and got the car to start after rebleeding and it's been fine since, so must have been drawing air in somewhere ?

 

[L' Hobo]

If it has a Bosch tandem pump fitted, these are known to snap the small drive shaft between the two pump units, meaning that the high pressure part will work, but the low pressure (sucks fuel from the tank) doesn't work.
The fact that they're saying "parts are obsolete" suggests the replacement tandem pump may also have been second hand, an unlikely scenario that they're both knackered, but something else to check ?
As someone else mentioned, I'd be setting up a temporary small fuel tank hung from the bonnet catch, gravity feeding the injector pump to see if that helps ?
Doing it this way is less invasive than actually stripping the pump, which might require an overhaul kit to reassemble it ?
The report you posted does seem quite comprehensive, if they've carried it out diligently ?

I suggested that earlier, an independent gravity fed supply would have been one of the first things I would have tried but I'm old school.

PS. I've not used either for over 10yrs but the used to be 2 very good (but not cheap) Diesel repair companies, one was called Colchester Diesels and another called Wimbledon Diesels.

As I haven't used them lately, this is not a recommendation but both were good.

 

[jockaneezer]

I suggested that earlier, an independent gravity fed supply would have been one of the first things I would have tried but I'm old school.

I'm old school too and a bit agricultural ! Those electronic (piezo ?) injectors would have me baffled !

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[DerryW]

As I said before, I know nothing of T5's but, on my German original LHD 1989 T25 or 3 as it should be known, it came with a complicated fuel filter which recycled the fuel to warm it in cold countries.
This had a number of pipes and connectors on top, one of which was a plastic one, this was notorious for getting broken SO as I have plenty of spare T25 parts, I changed that for the earlier simplified version. No more problems or expense.

Your VW garages have changed all the complicated, expensive parts but nothing has been mentioned about the fuel filter, has this been renewed and checked?

Often in a situation like you BIL, it's the simplest things that get overlooked. Perhaps the T5 also has an over complicated (for this country) fuel filter system that's sucking air?

Thanks for your response. Yes the very first think changed whilst still sat on BiL drive was the fuel filter.

 

[DerryW]

I suggested that earlier, an independent gravity fed supply would have been one of the first things I would have tried but I'm old school.

PS. I've not used either for over 10yrs but the used to be 2 very good (but not cheap) Diesel repair companies, one was called Colchester Diesels and another called Wimbledon Diesels.

As I haven't used them lately, this is not a recommendation but both were good.

It was the first of those 2 companies that you mentioned that VW sent the original set of injectors to for testing, and who said, 3 failed mechanical and 2 electrical. I must have spoken to 50+ people who said never heard of all 5 injectors failing at the same time. Especially when the vehicle started first time on the button approximately 45mins before the non start occurred.

 

[rod_vw]

DerryW I will ask again, have you presented all of this to the folks on the VW T6 Forum? There are folks on there that will make most dealers look like a kindergarten.
My other comment is, you should make sure that you have every one of the original parts that have been replaced returned to you.

My thoughts are that a completely new person looking at this may resolve the problem but with so many parts having been changed there could be faults under that bonnet that have nothing to do with the none start problem. It's had too many different persons working on it over far too many months.

From what I read the engine does have somewhat of a chequered history with some none original parts being installed before this problem occurred but if it ran OK before then that should not be part of the problem.

 

[L' Hobo]

It was the first of those 2 companies that you mentioned that VW sent the original set of injectors to for testing, and who said, 3 failed mechanical and 2 electrical. I must have spoken to 50+ people who said never heard of all 5 injectors failing at the same time. Especially when the vehicle started first time on the button approximately 45mins before the non start occurred.

I did say, I hadn't used them for over 10yrs and it wasn't a recommendation but, if it's the same company, they must have been going for over 30yrs so.......?

You say you sent them for TESTING and they found all 5 needed attention.

Remind me, did they ever get repaired or changed?

 

[DerryW]

I did say, I hadn't used them for over 10yrs and it wasn't a recommendation but, if it's the same company, they must have been going for over 30yrs so.......?

You say you sent them for TESTING and they found all 5 needed attention.

Remind me, did they ever get repaired or changed?

It was VW who sent the original injectors to Colchester for testing and who said all 5 had failed and the vehicle needed a complete set of 5. Due to age of vehicle VW no longer stock them. They (VW) can get a set of new from Euro Car Parts for £1,900. or if we could obtain a set that would be okay. That’s what we did. Purchased a set of 5 fully refurbished with a 1 year warranty from WT Diesel. Took them to VW to fit.

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[gus-lopez]

Has the ecu been told that there are new injectors fitted?
Although a different engine our peugeot (ford) engine had to have the injectors coded to the ecu. VW Audi etc are notorious for coding

To my knowlege all injectors,when replaced,need coding to the vehicle. You cannot even put original injectors back in a different cylinder they are coded to the actual cylinder.

 

[L' Hobo]

It was VW who sent the original injectors to Colchester for testing and who said all 5 had failed and the vehicle needed a complete set of 5. Due to age of vehicle VW no longer stock them. They (VW) can get a set of new from Euro Car Parts for £1,900. or if we could obtain a set that would be okay. That’s what we did. Purchased a set of 5 fully refurbished with a 1 year warranty from WT Diesel. Took them to VW to fit.

but as you had already (I presume) paid Colchester to test them, why didn't your BIL , pay for them to refurbish them.

This is what I did with the pump and injectors on my T25 VW most of the other mechanical parts, I get from GSF.
I rarely pay VW prices.

 

[DerryW]

To my knowlege all injectors,when replaced,need coding to the vehicle. You cannot even put original injectors back in a different cylinder they are coded to the actual cylinder.

I assume being a VW workshop they would know and did this.

but as you had already (I presume) paid Colchester to test them, why didn't your BIL , pay for them to refurbish them.

This is what I did with the pump and injectors on my T25 VW most of the other mechanical parts, I get from GSF.
I rarely pay VW prices.

We were not involved with Colchester injectors at all. VW did this. When they told me all 5 had failed and Colchester did not refurbish injectors. That’s why the (VW) suggested the new ones from Euro Car Parts at £1,900. Thanks Derry

 

[ChrisL]

I assume being a VW workshop they would know and did this.

We were not involved with Colchester injectors at all. VW did this. When they told me all 5 had failed and Colchester did not refurbish injectors. That’s why the (VW) suggested the new ones from Euro Car Parts at £1,900. Thanks Derry

If you get no joy from VW you might like to try Diesel Bob, he did some excellent work for me on my old Mitsubishi and he refurbishes and recalibrates injectors as well as pumps etc. He's worth a phone call if you've come to a halt with VW.

Diesel Bob (UK) Ltd -

For the owner, driver of any diesel powered vehicle who wants the best from their vehicle. Offering the ultimate diesel engine tuning as well as a diesel fuel injection service. Repairs and reconditioning of injectors and diesel pumps, suppliers of diesel fuel system parts and additives

www.dieselbob.co.uk

 

[DerryW]

DerryW I will ask again, have you presented all of this to the folks on the VW T6 Forum? There are folks on there that will make most dealers look like a kindergarten.
My other comment is, you should make sure that you have every one of the original parts that have been replaced returned to you.

My thoughts are that a completely new person looking at this may resolve the problem but with so many parts having been changed there could be faults under that bonnet that have nothing to do with the none start problem. It's had too many different persons working on it over far too many months.

From what I read the engine does have somewhat of a chequered history with some none original parts being installed before this problem occurred but if it ran OK before then that should not be part of the problem.

Rod VW thanks for your response. I shall insist on having the old parts returned to my BiL. I have this evening joined the VW forum in your link.
Thanks once again.

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