Vehicle Battery Charge

[philann]

Our 2010 Swift Mondial automatically charges both batteries. I always assumed all motorhomes did the same

 

[Hoovie]

lots of "yes it does" and "no it does not" in this thread without anything in many cases to back up those statements.

THIS is what happens....

It is dependant on which Sargent system is fitted to if it CAN (note CAN, not WILL) charge the Starter Battery when on Hookup.

The EC155 System has been mentioned. That system will charge EITHER the Vehicle Battery OR the Leisure Battery, but you have to manually chose which one on the control panel. The EC51/EC50 panel has an switch that toggles between Vb and Lb (Vehicle battery and Leisure battery). Whichever battery is selected will provide Habitation Power and also will charge that battery when on EHU.
These EC155s are popular fitments on the Autotrail entry level panel vans

Another Sargent unit fitted to the Autotrail Motorhomes (and many other British brands) is the EC325/EC328. This is exactly the same as the EC155 when it comes to Battery Charging. When on EHU, the battery that will be charged is the same as the battery that is selected to provide Habitation Power. And this must be manually selected on the control panel and there is no auto-cycling between the two batteries available.

Some later Sargent units do have a cycling between both batteries available.

I'm not sure what Lennys definition of modern is when he says "all modern commercially built Motorhomes charge the starter battery" but the EC155 is still fitted to some new vans (even though it is rather dated).
I imagine it is a little dig at British-built motorhomes as he loves his foreign Hymers? not very helpful for people trying to understand their motorhomes though and so not really that much "fun"?

I did wonder if this was the obvious method to check, but thought maybe I was missing something. I’ve got a good multimeter so can do as you suggest. That will at least tell me if I am getting any charge, if I’m not, I will need to establish if that is as the system was intended or if there is a fault. If the system is not designed to charge the vehicle battery, at least I can then sort out an alternative arrangement.

Almot certainly your system is working just as it should. Selecting the Vehicle Battery on the control panel is really only meant to be for the situation where the Leisure Battery has depleted. The reason it charges when selected and on EHU is purely because the entire system is routed to the Vehicle Battery instead of the Leisure Battery.

The best option for your motorhome I would say is to fit a Starter Battery Maintainer of some description that will trickle charge your Starter Battery when your van is plugged into EHU (or getting Solar Charging).
People here are in love with Vanbitz's Battery Master. Personally I think the Ablemail AMT12-2 is a better unit as it is a modern programmable maintainer at a similar price and that is compatible with all types of Battery including Lithium, not just Lead Acid like the Battery Master.
There are other maintainers as well from Voltronic and CBE as well as Sterling, but none of those are Lithium compatible either. The only other Lithium compatible unit other than the AMT12 is the interesting looking AMP-L-Start (<Broken link removed>) , but not sure if anyone in the UK sells that unit? (and with the current exchange rate and the need to add VAT and import duties as well as shipping, it would likely be rather expensive compared to the alternatives)

 

[Hoovie]

Look at the voltage of the starter battery. The normal 'resting voltage' will be between 12.8V (full) and about 12.0V (quite low but not flat) when it is not being charged by anything - mains hookup, solar or alternator.

If the voltage is 13.0V or more, then something is charging it. A cheap multimeter from a DIY store will be OK to measure the voltage, always useful to have handy for checking if the batteries are being charged, and general fault finding. The voltage will go up to about 14.5V when being actively charged. It will drop to about 13.5V when charging has finished and the charger is sending out a maintenance 'float' charge.

Just an FYI .... Many (most?) of the Sargent units will not go to 14.5V when charging, but have a fixed 13.8V output. This is why they are:
a) Not very good as a charger as they never fully charge the battery and
b) Not very good as a device to leave on EHU long term as they keep the battery above the recommended float.

Kind of the worst of both worlds

 

[Lagotto]

lots of "yes it does" and "no it does not" in this thread without anything in many cases to back up those statements.

THIS is what happens....

It is dependant on which Sargent system is fitted to if it CAN (note CAN, not WILL) charge the Starter Battery when on Hookup.

The EC155 System has been mentioned. That system will charge EITHER the Vehicle Battery OR the Leisure Battery, but you have to manually chose which one on the control panel. The EC51/EC50 panel has an switch that toggles between Vb and Lb (Vehicle battery and Leisure battery). Whichever battery is selected will provide Habitation Power and also will charge that battery when on EHU.
These EC155s are popular fitments on the Autotrail entry level panel vans

Another Sargent unit fitted to the Autotrail Motorhomes (and many other British brands) is the EC335/EC328. This is exactly the same as the EC155 when it comes to Battery Charging. When on EHU, the battery that will be charged is the same as the battery that is selected to provide Habitation Power. And this must be manually selected on the control panel and there is no auto-cycling between the two batteries available.

Later Sargent units do have a cycling between both batteries available.

I'm not sure what Lennys definition of modern is when he says "all modern commercially built Motorhomes charge the starter battery" but the EC155 is still fitted to some new vans (even though it is rather dated).
I imagine it is a little dig at British-built motorhomes as he loves his foreign Hymers? not very helpful for people trying to understand their motorhomes though and so not really that much "fun"?



Almot certainly your system is working just as it should. Selecting the Vehicle Battery on the control panel is really only meant to be for the situation where the Leisure Battery has depleted. The reason it charges when selected and on EHU is purely because the entire system is routed to the Vehicle Battery instead of the Leisure Battery.

The best option for your motorhome I would say is to fit a Starter Battery Maintainer of some description that will trickle charge your Starter Battery when your van is plugged into EHU (or getting Solar Charging).
People here are in love with Vanbitz's Battery Master. Personally I think the Ablemail AMT12-2 is a better unit as it is a modern programmable maintainer at a similar price and that is compatible with all types of Battery including Lithium, not just Lead Acid like the Battery Master.
There are other maintainers as well from Voltronic and CBE as well as Sterling, but none of those are Lithium compatible either. The only other Lithium compatible unit other than the AMT12 is the interesting looking AMP-L-Start (<Broken link removed>) , but not sure if anyone in the UK sells that unit? (and with the current exchange rate and the need to add VAT and import duties as well as shipping, it would likely be rather expensive compared to the alternatives)

Thanks for that explanation, it’s a great help. As you said, selecting vb on the control panel is just not a user friendly option for the van parked on the drive, hooked up. Definitely need to look at the battery maintainer option to keep the starter battery healthy, best get the wallet out again.

 

[donkey]

Our 2010 Swift Mondial automatically charges both batteries. I always assumed all motorhomes did the same

Hi
Your Sargent ECU will only charge both batteries if it is set in the advanced menu to 'Charge to Smart' the other two options are 'Charge to Leisure' & 'Charge to Vehicle'.

Geoff

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Tombola]

My old Van the same as yours Imala (2019) had the 155 unit fitted and selecting hab or cab on the control panel allowed to choose where the charge went and could be drawn from.
The charger I think was 10amp and at best sent 8 a to the batteries.

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

That's weird what is the van & the charging system?

Its a Ci base model coachbuilt on a fiat ducato 1.9 td base, known as an Arabella model as a special dealer edition imported by Don Amott leisure back in 2000.
Charging unit for leisure battery is a Nordelectronnica MOD TE 41L.

 

[philann]

Hi
Your Sargent ECU will only charge both batteries if it is set in the advanced menu to 'Charge to Smart' the other two options are 'Charge to Leisure' & 'Charge to Vehicle'.

Geoff

Thanks, do mean a menu on the actual Sargent ecu. I guess a previous owner has done that, I’ve never touched the unit!

 

[donkey]

Thanks, do mean a menu on the actual Sargent ecu. I guess a previous owner has done that, I’ve never touched the unit!

On the ECU you will find the LCD display and two buttons, red & yellow.
Yellow is to scroll through options.
Red is used to change values.
To access Advanced Settings hold yellow button down for a couple of seconds, You can then scroll through options.
Don't change any values if you are not sure, there are settings for: water alarm, electric step. solar charging & EHU charging priority and a few more.
To revert to Standard Settings hold down yellow again for a couple of seconds.

Geoff

 

[VXman]

Not having the starter battery charger by EHU shouldn't be an issue if you have a decent battery - depending on how long you leave it unused for. I do a lot of of grid camping and I chose not to have the solar panel connected to the starter battery as I didn't see the point. The starter should survive a few weeks or more without use. I think the only problem might be if you leave it stored unused for several months a year.

If it's stored at home you could just buy a basic trickle charger and use that when the van is not in use. When out on a trip (as long as you aren't just parked up on a campsite for a month) then the starter battery will be fine.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Ingwe]

Our 2012 Bailey doesn't charge the vehicle battery on EHU. We fitted a Battery Master to ensure our vehicle battery was kept topped up.

 

[Lenny HB]

chose not to have the solar panel connected to the starter battery as I didn't see the point. The starter should survive a few weeks or more without use

Starter battery will last 3 - 4 weeks max on a Fiat but you are getting into serious danger of Airbag ECU failure.
Our starter battery when not dirving only gets charged by solar i don't even to bother to plug into EHU at home.

 

[Lenny HB]

Our 2012 Bailey doesn't charge the vehicle battery on EHU. We fitted a Battery Master to ensure our vehicle battery was kept topped up.

And I only thought it was vehicles from the early 90's didn't have that feature.

 

[Ingwe]

People here are in love with Vanbitz's Battery Master. Personally I think the Ablemail AMT12-2 is a better unit as it is a modern programmable maintainer at a similar price and that is compatible with all types of Battery including Lithium, not just Lead Acid like the Battery Master.

The Battery Master is compatible with lithium batteries. We were expressly advised on this when we had our lithium batteries installed. Vehicle battery is maintained, as it was, when our leisure battery was a lead-acid one.

 

[Lenny HB]

The Battery Master is compatible with lithium batteries. We were expressly advised on this when we had our lithium batteries installed. Vehicle battery is maintained, as it was, when our leisure battery was a lead-acid one.

Depends where you are I know one person where it didn't work in Scotland in the winter he kept getting a flat starter battery. An Ablemail Battery Maintainer solved the problem.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Hoovie]

The Battery Master is compatible with lithium batteries. We were expressly advised on this when we had our lithium batteries installed. Vehicle battery is maintained, as it was, when our leisure battery was a lead-acid one.

The thing is, the battery master works on voltage differential and because the operating voltage of a Lithium battery is so much greater than a Lead Acid battery, the operational characteristic of the Battery Master with Lithium is significantly different than with Lead and is no longer a device that operates only when you are on charge. That may or not not be ok for you, but it is NOT properly Lithium compliant.

 

[Hoovie]

On the ECU you will find the LCD display and two buttons, red & yellow.
Yellow is to scroll through options.
Red is used to change values.
To access Advanced Settings hold yellow button down for a couple of seconds, You can then scroll through options.
Don't change any values if you are not sure, there are settings for: water alarm, electric step. solar charging & EHU charging priority and a few more.
To revert to Standard Settings hold down yellow again for a couple of seconds.

Geoff

It would be useful to say what model of Sargent unit your instructions above are for for anyone coming across this thread. What you are saying is certainly not applicable to many of them and people may be getting frustrated trying to find and select options that just do not exist on their model.

 

[Lagotto]

It would be useful to say what model of Sargent unit your instructions above are for for anyone coming across this thread. What you are saying is certainly not applicable to many of them and people may be getting frustrated trying to find and select options that just do not exist on their model.

Correct, I know that people try hard to offer advice and solutions which is much appreciated, but sweeping statements like "all modern motorhomes will charge both leisure and starter batteries" is obviously incorrect. Again, although I am advised that I can program my EC51, that is not correct. My unit does not have red/yellow buttons to enter advanced programming, only a simple switch between leisure or vehicle battery. I think that what this shows, is that there is very often not one simple "one size fits all" answer. I believe that I now know a lot more about my system than I did before and have also learnt more about what else there is out there in the motorhome world. Once my battery is charged later today I will do some multimeter testing to verify the charging when switching between leisure and vehicle, just out of interest, and then fit a device to maintain the vehicle battery as has been suggested. My motorhome does have long periods standing, as does my car, and after returning from a holiday I was unfortunate to find both vehicles to have a flat starter battery. Every day is a school day and I thank you all for your input.

 

[Hoovie]

Just some extra comments which may be of use....

The Sargent EC50/51 Control Panel (not sure which you have - the EC51 has a water level switch, the EC50 has an Aux (usually Awning Light) Switch) has a set of 5 LEDs to indicate battery voltage. They are pretty useless TBH and it would be worth fitting at the least a digital Voltmeter to allow you to check the battery level. even one of these plug-in units will be handy enough - https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=plug+in+voltmeter+12v&crid=2MCYKR0C1431L&sprefix=plug+in+voltmeter - or if you have a USB Socket, you could swap it for a combo USB/Volt socket.

When it comes to fitting a battery maintainer, no matter which one you get, they need a connection to Starter Battery +ve, Leisure Battery +ve and Ground.
The easiest place to fit one in your setup will be by tapping into the two pairs of Battery Cables that feed into the EC155 and a ground connection.
Brown/Green Cable is the Vehicle Battery;
Brown/Blue Cable is the Leisure Battery;
White/Orange is the common 0V/Ground.

What tools and experience you have will determine the best way to make the connection. As you are discovering, all motorhomes are different and it is not possible to make a definitive "do it this way".

 

[ROCHESB]

Our 2019 Imala 715 would not charge both batteries simultaneously. The Sargent unit fitted by Autotrail in these vans is strictly budget with a dumb, low powered charger. As I already had a CTEK MXS 5.0 charger I installed a short (fused) charging lead to the vehicle battery hidden under the passenger seat so that the Sargent charger could be used for the habitation battery while the CTEK charger was used for the vehicle battery.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lagotto]

Just some extra comments which may be of use....

The Sargent EC50/51 Control Panel (not sure which you have - the EC51 has a water level switch, the EC50 has an Aux (usually Awning Light) Switch) has a set of 5 LEDs to indicate battery voltage. They are pretty useless TBH and it would be worth fitting at the least a digital Voltmeter to allow you to check the battery level. even one of these plug-in units will be handy enough - https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=plug+in+voltmeter+12v&crid=2MCYKR0C1431L&sprefix=plug+in+voltmeter - or if you have a USB Socket, you could swap it for a combo USB/Volt socket.

When it comes to fitting a battery maintainer, no matter which one you get, they need a connection to Starter Battery +ve, Leisure Battery +ve and Ground.
The easiest place to fit one in your setup will be by tapping into the two pairs of Battery Cables that feed into the EC155 and a ground connection.
Brown/Green Cable is the Vehicle Battery;
Brown/Blue Cable is the Leisure Battery;
White/Orange is the common 0V/Ground.

What tools and experience you have will determine the best way to make the connection. As you are discovering, all motorhomes are different and it is not possible to make a definitive "do it this way".

Yeah, ive do have a simple digital voltmeter plugged into a accessory socket . So the battery maintainer is that simple to wire in to the EC155, just the two batteries and the ground, I can certainly crack on with that

 

[autorouter]

My motorhome does have long periods standing, as does my car, and after returning from a holiday I was unfortunate to find both vehicles to have a flat starter battery.

When we go away on trips, I leave the car with a small intelligent multistage charger connected to the mains. I am fortunate in that the 12V cigarette-lighter socket near the handbrake lever is live when the ignition is switched off, so I just plug the charger into that. The car blocks access for the MH, so I need it to start when we return.

I use a CTEK MXS5.0, which is a 5 amp charger. This is fine for charging a battery and keeping it topped up. It's possible to use a lower amps charger, like a battery maintainer. CTEK do one of those, and the Optimate version is popular too.

If you can't find a live 12V socket, another option with the CTEK or Victron charger is that there is a special 2-pin plug in the cable. You can get various connections with a 2-pin socket on, including one with ring terminals that can fit permanently on the battery. Then it's easy to just connect up the 2-pin plug when you want to charge.

 

[Lagotto]

Our 2019 Imala 715 would not charge both batteries simultaneously. The Sargent unit fitted by Autotrail in these vans is strictly budget with a dumb, low powered charger. As I already had a CTEK MXS 5.0 charger I installed a short (fused) charging lead to the vehicle battery hidden under the passenger seat so that the Sargent charger could be used for the habitation battery while the CTEK charger was used for the vehicle battery.

I too have the same CTEK which is currently charging my Imala starter battery. I was considering doing the same but then it seems a better solution to fit a simple battery maintainer which will then automatically take care of the starter battery moving forward, just a little more to spend. It is a very short sighted approach by the motorhome manufacturers, not to incorporate this solution for an obvious problem experienced by most owners.

 

[ROCHESB]

I too have the same CTEK which is currently charging my Imala starter battery. I was considering doing the same but then it seems a better solution to fit a simple battery maintainer which will then automatically take care of the starter battery moving forward, just a little more to spend. It is a very short sighted approach by the motorhome manufacturers, not to incorporate this solution for an obvious problem experienced by most owners.

I agree a battery master or similar device would be a better idea. I just happened to have the CTEK cable & charger available.

As it happens we sold the Imala and bought a new motorhome which has a mains charger that will charge both batteries simultaneously. It also has a DC to DC 'charger' to encourage the smart alternator to charge the habitation battery too.

 

[donkey]

The advice given was in reply to a post by philann. He stated he had a 2010 Swift Mondial so I knew from that he had an EC400/EC450 Power Supply Unit.
Sorry for any confusion.

Geoff

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

but sweeping statements like "all modern motorhomes will charge both leisure and starter batteries

I made that statement and its basicly correct as we have found out even your van does it but in your case you have to put the switch in the right position.

 

[Otter Spotter]

Yes. Just another peasant

Fit a ‘Battery Master’ from Jim or Vanbitz, that will solve the problem.

 

[philann]

On the ECU you will find the LCD display and two buttons, red & yellow.
Yellow is to scroll through options.
Red is used to change values.
To access Advanced Settings hold yellow button down for a couple of seconds, You can then scroll through options.
Don't change any values if you are not sure, there are settings for: water alarm, electric step. solar charging & EHU charging priority and a few more.
To revert to Standard Settings hold down yellow again for a couple of seconds.

Geoff

Thanks for the info
Phil

 

[Tombola]

It is a very short sighted approach by the motorhome manufacturers, not to incorporate this solution for an o

I had my Imala from new and soon discovered a lot of it was very short sighted.i had many issues and was a nightmare with the dealers. Then finding that the electrical system was very low end surprised me. Still my mistake I spose not enough experience and research.

I got rid and got a van that is superior in electrics..comfort and quality. Lesson learned with my autotrail.

 

[donkey]

Thanks for the info
Phil

Hi Phil
I have owned the Mondial for 8 years, so have become involved with just about all of it. If you have any queries, just ask.

Geoff

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}