Urgent help needed, (1 Viewer)

[michelle wilson 76]

Hi guys , we have recently purchased a 2004 eura mobil 2.8 jtd fiat ducato base . We are due to leave the UK on Friday, heading for the south of spain , previous owner had it sat in a field for god knows how long.
The Vehicle has been serviced , and had a new mot when we bought it . BUT whilst husband was taking it for a drive recently , he noticed that whilst braking, he is getting juddering through the brake pedal.
The whole of the underneath has been stripped and cleaned , numerous times trying to find the issue.
We have now replaced the suspension , brake shoes , discs , pads, drums , brakes have been bled a couple of times now , and a diagnostic test picked up no faults on the van or abs unit, we are now about to replace the master cylinder , in a desperate attempt to try and save our holiday ,and sanity .
I was wondering if anyone has had any similar problems , or any suggestions as to the cause ..

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Long shot but try maximum pressures on both front tires otherwise you have done everything I would have done, next move onto suspension rubber mounts and shockers. It does seem like the abs system is confused

Thankyou I will add them onto my check list , the abs isn't the only confused one ,

 

[Landy Andy]

A brake tester/rollers I doubt will show the problem or vibration. You can only supply limited amount of braking till they stop rotating, and they only rotate slowly.

 

[ChrisL]

I presume this is a front wheel drive van, if so have a look at the cv joints, these can cause juddering under braking if dry and worn.

 

[michelle wilson 76]

They said they have disabled ABS (fuse

Hi Michelle,
Some of the replies on here must be frightening you to death
do not get into a panic,
whatever the issue it can be found and sorted out
In your original post you say when you bought it, it had a new MOT
did you have the MOT carried out, or did the seller ?
was the brake judder present the first time it was ever driven after the MOT?
or did it appear after some miles of use
there must be next to no, mileage since the MOT
so ring the MOT station that issued the certificate
and ask if you can bring it back to them to be put on their rolling road brake tester
this is likely to be a fault that's developed since the van was tested
and is likely to end up being due to corrosion, after being in a field parked up for ages
a likely culprit as has been mentioned would be the ABS toothed gear ring
having corroded and lost a tooth or two, or even split and useless
I have seen both these senarios myself (not being clever)
just passing on experiences and trying to think it through and help

Hi Clive, thankyou for your message , its not so much much frightening, just more frustrating. The mot was done before we got it , but to be honest we should have looked it over a lot more than we did . .partner said the brakes didn't feel right whilst driving it home , so it has stayed on the drive whilst parts have been stripped , cleaned or replaced. and I don't think the mot is worth the paper its written on. 3 people have looked at it and all agreed it wouldn't have passed an mot. The master cylinder was replaced today , and tomorrow its being taken to be put on a rolling road, and I am on the case trying to locate a reconditioned abs pump , to rule that out as well . I think its now time to let the garage take over , whilst I still have some hair left .

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[Clive Beeza]

please keep us posted we are interested
in seeing you getting this sorted

 

[Barclaybasher]

I had a braking problem with my 2001 Ducato (maxi chassis). I narrowed down the problem to the offside rear by checking the temperature of each wheel. The van has discs all round but extra drums on the rear for the handbrake. At one point I had to cool the wheel with a bucket of water. The shoes on that side had broken off and were partially jamming the wheel and i was losing pressure on the footbrake

 

[Mike/Denise]

Does it judder through the steering wheel or just the brake pedal ?

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Does it judder through the steering wheel or just the brake pedal ?

Hi , only through the pedal

 

[Emmit]

Different vehicle but I drove to my garage on a Saturday with a shuddering.
'My' man took his phone out of his pocket before I had said anything beyond 'shuddering'.
He took the front wheel off and while still doing it, the local spares man arrived with a box.
20mins later, I was on my way with a new brake caliper fitted.
Me? Happy??? Not half.

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[gus-lopez]

You can only supply limited amount of braking till they stop rotating, and they only rotate slowly.

The vehicle should be thrown out of the rollers first. Never seen rollers stop rotating?

 

[Tony50]

Thankyou I will add them onto my check list , the abs isn't the only confused one ,

Seems to me you have thrown a lot of money at this problem, now as an ex garage owner I have been in the same boat as you , and had to get a vehicle checked for a problem that I could not identify, If probably been cheaper to take to Main Dealer, another thing brake rollers turn so slow, I doubt whether it would pick up a brake judder unless the docs were really buckled. I tell you what it won't be and that is Master cylinder. Take it to a main Fiat garage , now retired I take my Volvo to a Volvo garage ,why? Because they know Volvo,other than that my son does the servicing

 

[L' Hobo]

The vehicle should be thrown out of the rollers first. Never seen rollers stop rotating?

My Coaches 'locked out' a lot of the time, it was normal? But did the rollers stop turning or just skid, good question, I thought it skidded but it's been a long time? (The vehicle would not be thrown out of the rollers because the other brakes, front or rear, would hold it rigid.)

 

[donkey]

I had a braking problem with my 2001 Ducato (maxi chassis). I narrowed down the problem to the offside rear by checking the temperature of each wheel. The van has discs all round but extra drums on the rear for the handbrake. At one point I had to cool the wheel with a bucket of water. The shoes on that side had broken off and were partially jamming the wheel and i was losing pressure on the footbrake

Probably about once a month I take my laser temperature probe out with me. As soon as I have returned it takes but a few seconds to walk round and check all disc, drum, tyre and hub temperatures. A low or high reading would get checked out, as a matter of urgency.

 

[Tony50]

Seems to me you have thrown a lot of money at this problem, now as an ex garage owner I have been in the same boat as you , and had to get a vehicle checked for a problem that I could not identify, If probably been cheaper to take to Main Dealer, another thing brake rollers turn so slow, I doubt whether it would pick up a brake judder unless the docs were really buckled. I tell you what it won't be and that is Master cylinder. Take it to a main Fiat garage , now retired I take my Volvo to a Volvo garage ,why? Because they know Volvo,other than that my son does the servicing

I meant Volvo garage only for MOTas they know all the faults Volvo's have, service done by my son .

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[Tony Plantagenet]

Hi guys , we have recently purchased a 2004 eura mobil 2.8 jtd fiat ducato base . We are due to leave the UK on Friday, heading for the south of spain , previous owner had it sat in a field for god knows how long.
The Vehicle has been serviced , and had a new mot when we bought it . BUT whilst husband was taking it for a drive recently , he noticed that whilst braking, he is getting juddering through the brake pedal.
The whole of the underneath has been stripped and cleaned , numerous times trying to find the issue.
We have now replaced the suspension , brake shoes , discs , pads, drums , brakes have been bled a couple of times now , and a diagnostic test picked up no faults on the van or abs unit, we are now about to replace the master cylinder , in a desperate attempt to try and save our holiday ,and sanity .
I was wondering if anyone has had any similar problems , or any suggestions as to the cause ..

Had a similar problem on a previous car ( a hyundai) , it was itermitant juddering when braking, turned out to be a missing castelation on the abs sender, got it replaced, problem disappeared.

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Good morning all, apologies for not giving any recent updates with regards to our mh saga, The last couple of days have been so stressful. And apologies again for not being able to give you the technical terms for tests that have been carried on the mh , as my brain does not like to retain new information . Over the last couple of days it has had 2 diagnostic tests on 2 different machines, both picked up no faults . The abs system apparently has no issues , and no warning lights are coming on, on the dashboard. A test was done , I believe, where each brake fluid pipe going to the wheels was clamped of individually then, the mh was driven down the road to see how it performed. On the last test the nearside caliper seized completely, with lots of smoke and burning smell. We thought we had found the problem , one of the pistons was stuck . Long story short ! Stripped everything back of , couldn't get the van in the garage last week , to put it on the rolling road , and let have them look at it .as it couldn't be driven anywhere.. we ordered a new caliper on Wednesday,but the shop ordered the wrong one then had to wait again for their supplier to bring one in their next delivery , but it still didn't arrive . Now have to wait till Monday. Hence we have had to rebook the ferry for Monday. Over the weekend another test was by a mechanic, and it turns out that even if a new caliper is put on , the juddering is still there. So we have concluded that all we can do is possibly replace the abs system ,(just in case ) and pipework . As well as any other issues we find along the way. But With time running out and the ferry booked for tomorrow , the decision was made that we have just run out of time and ideas . so our first mh adventure will not be happening this summer. Absolutely gutted, is an understatement

 

[L' Hobo]

Good morning all, apologies for not giving any recent updates with regards to our mh saga, The last couple of days have been so stressful. And apologies again for not being able to give you the technical terms for tests that have been carried on the mh , as my brain does not like to retain new information . Over the last couple of days it has had 2 diagnostic tests on 2 different machines, both picked up no faults . The abs system apparently has no issues , and no warning lights are coming on, on the dashboard. A test was done , I believe, where each brake fluid pipe going to the wheels was clamped of individually then, the mh was driven down the road to see how it performed. On the last test the nearside caliper seized completely, with lots of smoke and burning smell. We thought we had found the problem , one of the pistons was stuck . Long story short ! Stripped everything back of , couldn't get the van in the garage last week , to put it on the rolling road , and let have them look at it .as it couldn't be driven anywhere.. we ordered a new caliper on Wednesday,but the shop ordered the wrong one then had to wait again for their supplier to bring one in their next delivery , but it still didn't arrive . Now have to wait till Monday. Hence we have had to rebook the ferry for Monday. Over the weekend another test was by a mechanic, and it turns out that even if a new caliper is put on , the juddering is still there. So we have concluded that all we can do is possibly replace the abs system ,(just in case ) and pipework . As well as any other issues we find along the way. But With time running out and the ferry booked for tomorrow , the decision was made that we have just run out of time and ideas . so our first mh adventure will not be happening this summer. Absolutely gutted, is an understatement

Silly question perhaps as I have not retraced all previous posts BUT the front pads have been changed (I would have thought by now) but have the tyres been balanced (you appear to have done nearly everything mechanical with the brakes?)
Sorry to read about your problems but at least it's this side of the water you can be understood, we've all been there but Good Luck!
PS, thanks for the updates!

 

[Silver-Fox]

Why not try it without the abs sensors being plugged in.

I appreciate this would probably throw the dash light on but that would be an issue for a test run.

If no judder you’ve found where to look.

Just because no faults show up on an OBD reader doesn’t mean there isn’t one there

My Daughter had a calliper sticking on her Caddy van.
I freed it off a few times but it persisted and I just changed the calliper.

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Good Morning, yes we have all new pads , shoes , discs, drums, exhaust and the new tyres have been balanced, brakes bled, everything else has been stripped cleaned and put back .

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[michelle wilson 76]

Why not try it without the abs sensors being plugged in.

I appreciate this would probably throw the dash light on but that would be an issue for a test run.

If no judder you’ve found where to look.

Just because no faults show up on an OBD reader doesn’t mean there isn’t one there

My Daughter had a calliper sticking on her Caddy van.
I freed it off a few times but it persisted and I just changed the calliper.

The abs system has been disabled a few times , but we still have the juddering ,

 

[Gromett]

The abs system has been disabled a few times , but we still have the juddering ,

I am still suspicious of your calipers and think a service kit would be advisable.

Mark recently did his and did a video on it. Different van but the principles are the same.

He has a series of videos where he completely reconditions the braking system.

https://www.youtube.com/@Iveavan/videos

 

[Gromett]

Just realised the header section for the above video will not be seen. Here is what he says as an introduction to the video.

STICKING / BINDING BRAKES? A Detailed Video on How I Restore / Recondition My 2005 Iveco Daily Camper Van Brake Calipers. Anyone can do it and it's relatively cheap to do, £25 for both front brake calipers! Plus, I go over Iveco Daily brakes issues that I've had in the past and how I resolved these issues like sticking brakes.

 

[Silver-Fox]

The abs system has been disabled a few times , but we still have the juddering ,

It’s mechanical then, can’t be anything else.

Drive shafts or bearings then would be my go to.

I’d also check suspension being loaded up under braking.
Along with any bushes.

Just because new callipers and discs have been fitted doesn’t mean there isn’t an issue with one.

Are they new/Refurb or have you changed the seals etc.

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Thankyou , I will look at those now.

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[Silver-Fox]

Just thought.

When it judders under braking does the brake pedal pulse?

 

[michelle wilson 76]

It’s mechanical then, can’t be anything else.

Drive shafts or bearings then would be my go to.

I’d also check suspension being loaded up under braking.
Along with any bushes.

Just because new callipers and discs have been fitted doesn’t mean there isn’t an issue with one.

Are they new/Refurb or have you changed the seals etc.

Everything that has been put on is New. And all the new parts were inspected and measured just incase, as I know they can still have defects. Im not sure about the seals , apologies for asking , but which seals are you referring to .as I don't drive and have no real understanding of everything that has been done

 

[L' Hobo]

The abs system has been disabled a few times , but we still have the juddering ,

Another silly question, the driver cannot be confusing ABS action for juddering can they? ABS will release and apply you brakes if any wheels start locking. As everything has been renewed and therefore the brakes should be super efficient, could this be what's happening?

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Just thought.

When it judders under braking does the brake pedal pulse?

I'm told its a can either be a long judder / pulse or lots of little juddering pulses if tha makes sence

 

[L' Hobo]

I'm told its a can either be a long judder / pulse or lots of little juddering pulses if tha makes sence

See my post above

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[tonyidle]

Clamp off each brake in turn testing (carefully) between each clamping. If the vibration is caused by one of the brake assemblies you will identify the culprit.