Unrolling electrical hook up cables: safety concerns?

[redchad]

Question for everyone! We’re currently in Germany and have noticed that certainly the Germans but also Norwegian and Italian vans are all using roll up hookup cables as in the picture. Now at home were constantly warned about fully unrolling your cable as it could get to hit and burst into flames. So who’s right and who’s wrong as the Germans don’t seem concerned?

 

[Bazzagas]

Question for everyone! We’re currently in Germany and have noticed that certainly the Germans but also Norwegian and Italian vans are all using roll up hookup cables as in the picture. Now at home were constantly warned about fully unrolling your cable as it could get to hit and burst into flames. So who’s right and who’s wrong as the Germans don’t seem concerned?View attachment 809153

I once was using a coiled up cable ( made to british standards )with an electric fan heater on while working in a very cold garage...the cable melted and caught fire....now every time I use mine , its uncoiled..

 

[Gromett]

I thought you would have understood what I said...

I was referring to Cables... not cable reels ..

manufactuers cable charts have rating information on installation methods .. but not for coiled use.. never seen that

I do not use Amazon as a source of technical information..

I was agreeing with you sorry if I wasn't clear on that. I could probably have phrased it better in hindsight.

 

[scotjimland]

I was agreeing with you sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

ah, ok, I also apologise, I read again and it was a wee bit ambiguous..

now I see it

 

[Tom Simpson]

I trust you used a large, metal, flat bladed screwdriver to push the Earth hole gate down?

I don’t have my cable on a reel and just tidy it away when leaving camp

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[Brains]

You all have probably noticed, when you buy a EHU cable in the UK it does not come on a reel.
Also they usually orange cables. (or blue for prolonged or cold use)

We noticed many of those being used by the Germans and Dutch were conventional domestic reeled extension cables (usually black or white) with a normal domestic 2 or 3 pin plug and socket.

They usually had a CForm plug to domestic socket converter to the reel which as it's not waterproof, was tucked under the vehicle. (Best placed to start a fire)

I think if I was running a site I'd insist that everyone either uses a proper EHU cable, or uses an unwound domestic cable with waterproof connectors added.
The shop then needs to keep one in stock to sell.

 

[The Old Man]

I don’t have my cable on a reel and just tidy it away when leaving camp

+1

 

[Gromett]

ah, ok, I also apologise, I read again and it was a wee bit ambiguous..

now I see it

Yup, My fault sorry.

 

[G-RMPS]

Bang on. Inductive loops also create a magnetic field as well as heat over and above what the resistance of the cable will do.

If Germans want to take the risk that's their call. Also when uncoiled, don't leave it all coiled the same way under van. It was the cause of a lot of interference on a TV in a van I went to help someone in on a rally. Spread out the loops, problem solved.

 

[G-RMPS]

I put my reel in a large pan of water. I use the hot water for washing the dishes. It won’t go on fire because water boils at a lower temperature than the insulation

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[Dolmen]

I put my reel in a large pan of water. I use the hot water for washing the dishes. It won’t go on fire because water boils at a lower temperature than the insulation

If you have reverse polarity does it freeze the water and keep the beer cold?

 

[scotjimland]

If you have reverse polarity does it freeze the water and keep the beer cold?

your onto something.. but not new, it's called a Peltier cooler.

 

[pappajohn]

Theoretically, if the cable gets hot enough to melt you need a new RCD/RCBO.
it should have tripped as soon as bare wires touched.

 

[scotjimland]

Theoretically, if the cable gets hot enough to melt you need a new RCD/RCBO.
it should have tripped as soon as bare wires touched.

yes, but they can't touch until they melt... by that time the drum could be alight

 

[pappajohn]

In any event it's only a problem if you put the cable drum under your van.
If it's in open space and on fire simply unplug at both ends and drag it somewhere safe.
All its cost is a cable and drum.
I always unwound and laid the excess back and forth along the side of the van.

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[varaizian]

I made this assembly back in 2006 when we started with the van. The idea is to keep the wire tidy but not contain any heat. I've never found it remotely warm unless in the sun; even after an extended run with the hairdryer. No, not me! The narrow gap at the side holds enough cable to reach up from the ground. Patent applied for - not.

 

[minesapint]

Question for everyone! We’re currently in Germany and have noticed that certainly the Germans but also Norwegian and Italian vans are all using roll up hookup cables as in the picture. Now at home were constantly warned about fully unrolling your cable as it could get to hit and burst into flames. So who’s right and who’s wrong as the Germans don’t seem concerned?View attachment 809153

The cable is also Black and not Orange. Always unrolled ours

 

[Roby2008]

I use one similar to this, 2 x25m, one for each and always fully unravel ......

and, being married to a German I think the German penchant for cable rolls is more about order and tidiness than anything else....

 

[scotjimland]

Amazon product ASIN B006Z7ZDW2

 

[wp1234]

This is such a repetitive topic it’s beyond boring.

Question for everyone! We’re currently in Germany and have noticed that certainly the Germans but also Norwegian and Italian vans are all using roll up hookup cables as in the picture. Now at home were constantly warned about fully unrolling your cable as it could get to hit and burst into flames. So who’s right and who’s wrong as the Germans don’t seem concerned?View attachment 809153

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[Mzracer]

Leaving it coiled doesn't generate any more heat,

There is an inductive heating effect that is created by leaving the cable coiled and then there is the bunching of the cable not allowing heat dissipation.

Definitely uncoil.

 

[Widge]

Isn't it funny how many times you get told something that sounds totally reasonable at the time and for whatever reason you never have any need to question it, this happened to me with this thread.

Somebody told me once, probably when I was a kid it might have even been my dad, don't leave an extension cable rolled up because it will overhead due to the inductance. So I have probably believed this fallacy for over 50 years, which when you consider I was an electronics engineer for 10 of that before I went into computer maintenance then system management, is terrible, but I have never needed to do anything with inductors or transformers, certainly not any design work with them, so the fact that that statement wasn't true never crossed my mind, until someone on here said inductance doesn't come into the equation, as both live and neutral are wound together, so any inductance will get cancelled out. This got me questioning what I knew.

Anyway I have done some double checking, not because I disbelieved what had been posted but more a disbelief that I had thought otherwise for so long, anyway apparently I have been wrong for 50 years and inductance will have very little if any effect on the heating of the cable, for exactly the reasons said.

Strange world isn't it. Next, somebodys going to tell me that Santa doesn't exist.

 

[Bertilak]

I'm a latercomer to the topic, but having seen them use in NL I bought one of these reels, c35Euro in Lidl. Compared with the horrible stiff orange thing I had to fight to fit on a crappy reel, it is a thing of beauty. It came with water resistant Schuko plugs but another £9 had fitted it with Austrian 16A commando plugs. I couldn't leave it in the shop because it had 2 reels, with one for the short end to reach up to the van. It just seemed too sensible...
It is clearly marked 1000w rolled, 3500W unrolled. We rarely plug in, occasionally to charge up the batteries in on a site with no sun etc, or potentially to run a 500w heater (not actually used yet), which in a tiny van would probably be fairly intermittent, so I'm quite happy.

 

[Widge]

I have found this table showing reduction of current capacity with changes of ambient tempreture, i believe the table is for single core cable so 3 core is unlikely to be better. As you will see for 75°C cable (which a standard 3 core probably is) the current carrying ability drops quite a bit as tempreture goes up, for example a drop of 12% at 40°C in the shade, which isnt huge, but a cable on hardcore in the sun could quite easily get to 50+ degrees.

 

[Widge]

Leaving it coiled doesn't generate any more heat, just the heat is concentrated and can't escape, so the temperature will rise.

If it's a chunky cable and they're only using a few amps, then the risk is low. But if you've got electric heating turned up to max, and then you're running an electrical cooking appliance... it's probably not clever.

Also copper wires resistance goes up by about .4%/°C which doesn't sound a lot, but for example, a 16A 1.5mm 20m extension (40m of wire) about 0.4 ohm
At 16A
.4 ohm @20°C 6.4W
12 ohm @50°C 192W
22 ohm @75°C 353W
18 ohm @100°C 0.514kW

Yes i know that nobody is likely to draw anywhere near 16A intentionally but under a fault situation its not impossible.

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[Twitters]

We always unroll our electric cable, i have seen some uncoiled but have thought is this correct, never been sure so on the safety side of things that is what we do.

 

[starquake]

TBH with Euro hookups being 6A max, so what 1500W there probably is not much danger for the Germans and French. If you look at ratings where you need to uncoil its usually 5-6A ... so the answer really is if you using 10-16A, ie, a UK standard hookup you should uncoil, but in EU on a Aire, you don't need do.

So both points are right, in Germany on a normal hookup uncoiling is not required unleess it's over 6A.

Personally we uncoil on all hookups as typically switch water heat to EHU as way I look at it, I'm off grid if a site offers it (CACC) but if I'm at a CAMC site, or a private campsite with EHU hookup included and paying the premium for it, then yes I'll use it.

This weekend at a CL with no EHU, next week at CAMC with EHU as we're getting out of season now, and CAMC rates are not much of a premium over a CL.

 

[scotjimland]

So both points are right, in Germany on a normal hookup uncoiling is not required unleess it's over 6A.

I would concur... but there is a problem with that

it's easy to forget how small loads add up, even for those who know how to calculate, but forget, and there are those who don't how to calculate it..

how small loads add up.. these are not definitive, just to illustrate

3 way Fridge 120w
Hot Water 800w
Kettle say 800W
Battery Charger 120w

Total 1840 w div. by 230v = 8Amps

Add in a couple of phones and or laptops charging and you will be at 10A

I know they may not be all on all at the same time, but it illustrates how loads mount up, and more load than many suspect, or allow for..

these are all low wattage items, but 8amps .is more than enough to overheat a coiled cable

hence my advice is to always uncoil..

A 6 amp MCB can carry 6 amps continuously without over heating,It will trip when the current exceeds 6 amps and typically if it is say 25 % more (i.e. 7.5 Amps) will trip in a matter of few minutes.

 

[Jim]

This is such a repetitive topic it’s beyond boring.

Rather than be rude to the OP, why not ignore questions you find boring. It's really easy to ignore content you’d rather not see. You can ignore threads, whole forum sections even people. Take a look here to see how easy it is.

Meanwhile, we'll all be ignoring you for a couple of weeks.

 

[jerryz]

Im in Dresden today at what I have noticed is that some motorhome sites need very long runs for electric cables in Germany up to 70 -80m so they all carry rollup cables and often link 2 or even 3 together ... i only have a UK 25m cable so have to be picky . also some sites have pitches for 50 vehicles and maybe only 14 electric points so its chaos and first time first served

Other stelleplatz have 50 pitches with electric where we are today but no loo or grey water emptying faclities whilst other have the loo and water but No electric
we have to drive to another site 1mile down the road to empty out Bog and fill with water but we have lots of electric !!!

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[Tony50]

I always lay out cable, takes a minute I reckon, better safe than sorry, also it's having respect for others.