Twin axle or single-Newbie needs help.

[Monkeymatt1]

Evening all
We are new to MotorHomes but did have a twin axle caravan.We didn't fancy taking the caravan abroad so have sold it and are now looking for a Motorhome.
Budget should stretch to a 2008-2010 plate.
My main concern is the length of the twin axle/tag versions.I have seen other Q&A on the subject.
Most seem to be 8.5-8.9 mtr,so what are people's experience's travelling around France in one of these?
I am not too worried about the toll charges but i am concerned about getting to the stop over sites and not getting in ,especially as we have 2 young children.
How is it on a turning circle against a single axle?
I read something by one person that he thought the interior wears less in a tag because there is less body roll.Any thoughts on that?
Also, I have looked at a couple,one a Bessecar and the other Kontiki.Is there a better make to go for?
We really need one with a garage as we need the storage.We could go for a single axle with bunkbeds at the end over garage if there is such a thing but i haven't found one yet that is 5/6 berth.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as we are really struggling with this.
Finally,in say 10 years' time when it's showing its age would a twin axle or single sell better?..i ask as 20 year old tag ones don't seem to age so well.
Many thanks in advance.
Matt

 

[Guigsy]

No way will it ever work for 4 people he also said adults, 3 adults on top of the driver that is already allowed for is going to be 200 to 300 kg, 5% tolerance on van weight will often lose another 100 to 150 kg fill the water tank say another 150kg payload is soon eaten up. Then add spare wheel, awning another 75kg gone. Not much payload left.

What I was trying to point out (I was only using my van as an example) is that when buying a second hand van the difference between claimed payload and actual payload is quite different.

You have a point, with 4 adults, it's going to be pretty tight, especially if the van is loaded with accessories like extra batteries and an awning.

But also saying you need more than 500kg per person is over-egging it for most people.

 

[Monkeymatt1]

Nowhere near enough, our van is 4500kg with a payload of 1350kg. It's just about right for the two of us, we have about 200kg spare, we don't carry that much stuff and the two of us aren't too heavy our combined weight is 120kg.

You have to bear in mind the payload given is for the absolutely basic van and all the options, extras aftermarket accessories all reduce the payload.

Our van came out of the factory with 200kg of options fitted some of which you can't buy the van without.
Then I added, a spare wheel, 3 x solar panels, 2 x batteries, awning, tv, inverter, and various other bits and pieces totaling around 160kg.
So now you can see the quoted payload has been reduced by 360kg.
Also there is a 5% tolerance on weight and most manufacturers use it, so your van could easily have lost another 100 to 150kg of payload,

When i read this my thinking then reverts back to a twin axle which i do not really want.When we were caravanning you see the Motorhomes and they carry as much clobber as we did if not more.I wonder how many are overweight when you think of swift and the like.

 

[Monkeymatt1]

You have a point, with 4 adults, it's going to be pretty tight, especially if the van is loaded with accessories like extra batteries and an awning.

But also saying you need more than 500kg per person is over-egging it for most people.

We are 2 adults and 2 children,all tiny apart from me.

 

[Guigsy]

I wonder how many are overweight when you think of swift and the like.

LOTS!

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[Lenny HB]

When i read this my thinking then reverts back to a twin axle which i do not really want.When we were caravanning you see the Motorhomes and they carry as much clobber as we did if not more.I wonder how many are overweight when you think of swift and the like.

A high percentage of Motorhomes run overweight the enlightened ones on this forum tend to be aware and keep withing the weight. A very large number of Motorhomers haven't got a clue about payloads and not helped by a lot of pig ignorant salesman who believe the sale is more important than the customer driving an illegal van.

Caravaners are the worst offenders as caravans have very small payloads and chassis that are not designed for carrying heavy weights while traveling.

 

[Lenny HB]

But also saying you need more than 500kg per person is over-egging it for most people.

I never said that.

What I have always said is that for a German van you need a minimum of 700 kg for two people, a Brit van you can probably get away with 500kg as a lot of bits are standard that are extra on German vans.

But at that it's going to be tight nothing worse than having to worry about what you can carry each time you go away.

Also you don't need to double it for 4 people as a lot of the stuff you will carry will apply to both 2 or 4 people in the van.

 

[Guigsy]

You've got vans like the AutoTrail Grand Frontier 70, a 7m a-class, being sold as a 3.5t van:

https://www.auto-trail.co.uk/grande-frontier-70

Even by their calculations, with a driver with their luggage, no passenger, empty tanks and no optional extras, there's only 60kg of payload.

 

[Lenny HB]

You've got vans like the AutoTrail Grand Frontier 70, a 7m a-class, being sold as a 3.5t van:

https://www.auto-trail.co.uk/grande-frontier-70

Even by their calculations, with a driver with their luggage, no passenger, empty tanks and no optional extras, there's only 60kg of payload.

You forgot to add on at least 100kg for it coming out of the factory overweight so in reality negative payload.

 

[Guigsy]

I never said that.

You said you use 1150kg and you "don't carry that much stuff and the two of us aren't too heavy". I maintain that you are on the upper end of the scale in terms of payload use.

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[Lenny HB]

You said you use 1150kg and you "don't carry that much stuff and the two of us aren't too heavy". I maintain that you are on the upper end of the scale in terms of payload use.

Back to SpecSavers boy my figures work out at 990kg

I forgot the air suspension that uses up another 50kg.

We don't actually carry that much, in the garage we have 2 x e-bikes, spare wheel, tables & chairs, tools, pegs, awning mat, mains leads, hoses, spare cassette, washing machine (that's only 13kg).
Although we only use our day tent at festivals & rallies we tend to leave it in the garage as we have plenty of payload and have recently taken to carrying the paddleboard. No point in going on holiday if you can't enjoy yourself.

 

[G7UXG]

Monkeymatt1 Don’t write off a tag axle just yet. Whilst I’ve heard from others that there are a few places that won’t accept them, that is not my experience. I’ve never been refused access to anywhere. And if I was, so be it… I’ll find somewhere else.

If you need a reasonable sized van with a good load capacity, a tag axle may be ideal. Mine is 8.1 metres, so not too long compared with most tag axles.

Empty, as it left the factory with a good specification, it weighs about 4000kg. I know that because I weighed it on my way home the first day I picked it up when brand new and empty. Its gross weight is 5000kg, so 1000kg payload for everything that we need to put in it.

I added E&P hydraulic levellers, a satellite system and an extra solar panel, so there’s now two. I then fully loaded it with everything we take away, including bikes and a generator. Filled the water tank (160 litres, so 160kgs), filled the fuel tank, filled the twin 11kg refillable gas bottles, and then took it to the weigh bridge about 10 miles from home as we left for our first trip abroad in the new van. It weighed just under 4800kg, so I’d used 800kg of payload, including the wife and I. The levellers alone add about 60 or 70kg.

A tag axle currently plated at 5000kg can be fairly easily uprated to 5250kg without really doing anything mechanical, and to 5500kg if you’re prepared to spend a bit of money on semi-air suspension on the rear. I haven’t updated mine because I don’t need to. Maybe one day I will if I decide to carry a 125cc scooter in the boot.

Some tag axles might be a little heavier than mine (i.e. the larger ones) but you should expect a payload of 1000kg or more. Some single rear axle motorhomes also have good payloads (such as Lenny HB ) but you have to be more careful with load balancing; in most motorhomes it’s quite difficult to load up the front axle and make use of that load capacity on the front axle, but too easy to overload the rear axle if you use all of the payload.

Everything is a compromise and you have to find the right balance for your own circumstances and budget.

Good luck with the search.

 

[Guigsy]

...our van is 4500kg with a payload of 1350kg. It's just about right for the two of us, we have about 200kg spare...

Isn't that 1150kg used?

 

[Puddleduck]

Our single rear axle, 3650kg less than 3m gets charged HGV rate through the Tyne Tunnel

 

[stevewagner]

Thank you.
A lot of the Kontiki and Bessacarr seem to be 4250kg so if i can get one on a weighbridge (i guess that depends how far away they are from a weighbridge) and i have around 700-800 to play with then that should do us.
I will bear that advice in mind just in case the perfect one albeit the weight does come up.
I never thought it would be so hard trying to work out which way to go,no wonder some people are saying it can take a year to find the right one.

It’s not just that as you need to know the front and rear axle weight capabilitie.

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[Monkeymatt1]

A high percentage of Motorhomes run overweight the enlightened ones on this forum tend to be aware and keep withing the weight. A very large number of Motorhomers haven't got a clue about payloads and not helped by a lot of pig ignorant salesman who believe the sale is more important than the customer driving an illegal van.

Caravaners are the worst offenders as caravans have very small payloads and chassis that are not designed for carrying heavy weights while traveling.

We had a mercedes vito towing our twin axle,took the seats out and through everything in the vito.

 

[stevewagner]

I’ve had two tag axle motorhomes, a Hobby and a Euromobil. Never had any issues driving or camping anywhere here and in Europe

 

[Monkeymatt1]

I’ve had two tag axle motorhomes, a Hobby and a Euromobil. Never had any issues driving or camping anywhere here and in Europe

Monkeymatt1 Don’t write off a tag axle just yet. Whilst I’ve heard from others that there are a few places that won’t accept them, that is not my experience. I’ve never been refused access to anywhere. And if I was, so be it… I’ll find somewhere else.

If you need a reasonable sized van with a good load capacity, a tag axle may be ideal. Mine is 8.1 metres, so not too long compared with most tag axles.

Empty, as it left the factory with a good specification, it weighs about 4000kg. I know that because I weighed it on my way home the first day I picked it up when brand new and empty. Its gross weight is 5000kg, so 1000kg payload for everything that we need to put in it.

I added E&P hydraulic levellers, a satellite system and an extra solar panel, so there’s now two. I then fully loaded it with everything we take away, including bikes and a generator. Filled the water tank (160 litres, so 160kgs), filled the fuel tank, filled the twin 11kg refillable gas bottles, and then took it to the weigh bridge about 10 miles from home as we left for our first trip abroad in the new van. It weighed just under 4800kg, so I’d used 800kg of payload, including the wife and I. The levellers alone add about 60 or 70kg.

A tag axle currently plated at 5000kg can be fairly easily uprated to 5250kg without really doing anything mechanical, and to 5500kg if you’re prepared to spend a bit of money on semi-air suspension on the rear. I haven’t updated mine because I don’t need to. Maybe one day I will if I decide to carry a 125cc scooter in the boot.

Some tag axles might be a little heavier than mine (i.e. the larger ones) but you should expect a payload of 1000kg or more. Some single rear axle motorhomes also have good payloads (such as Lenny HB ) but you have to be more careful with load balancing; in most motorhomes it’s quite difficult to load up the front axle and make use of that load capacity on the front axle, but too easy to overload the rear axle if you use all of the payload.

Everything is a compromise and you have to find the right balance for your own circumstances and budget.

Good luck with the search.

So confused don't know what to buy single or double.Spent the afternoon at 4 front in Sussex and my mind is blown!

 

[stevewagner]

So confused don't know what to buy single or double.Spent the afternoon at 4 front in Sussex and my mind is blown!

They are quite good dealers and have offered me good part exchange deals in the past, although never ended up buying from them. I read recently that they are up for sale. They have 3 sites (the 2 others sell 4x4’s and high quality cars). Apparently the group has a 20 million pounds turnover!

 

[Guigsy]

So confused don't know what to buy single or double.Spent the afternoon at 4 front in Sussex and my mind is blown!

Get the van with the layout you want that has enough payload. Whether it's tag or not is secondary.

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[Monkeymatt1]

They are quite good dealers and have offered me good part exchange deals in the past, although never ended up buying from them. I read recently that they are up for sale. They have 3 sites (the 2 others sell 4x4’s and high quality cars). Apparently the group has a 20 million pounds turnover!

I thought everything there was well priced and the couple of vans that had minor damage to sides from branches scratching the paint were priced accordingly.Very busy,there were at least 15 MH'S in the Sold bay although anyone could put a sign in the window.All presented well unlike a company i went to yesterday in East Sussex.Everything was dirty and one of the toilets made me want to heave.Why on earth they can't valet them is beyond me.

 

[Monkeymatt1]

Get the van with the layout you want that has enough payload. Whether it's tag or not is secondary.

Sometimes i think i'm over thinking it regards to single or twin axle.I spent some time last night on the pitch up site and it was about 50/50 where it stated no twin axles.
For anyone experienced travelling in France is it easy to just rock up,i.e spaces or are all they rammed like here in the South UK?

 

[Speve]

Thank you,not sure about Left hand drive though.Are the Hymer's good to drive?

You can get RHD as well IMO the A class is so easy for driving

 

[Figaro]

Sometimes i think i'm over thinking it regards to single or twin axle.I spent some time last night on the pitch up site and it was about 50/50 where it stated no twin axles.
For anyone experienced travelling in France is it easy to just rock up,i.e spaces or are all they rammed like here in the South UK?

Generally campsites are more spacious on the continent as land is less expensive. I doubt you be turned away anywhere abroad in a tag .
Booking campsites is advisable in France in July and August, otherwise you can indeed just rock up.

 

[Lenny HB]

For anyone experienced travelling in France is it easy to just rock up,i.e spaces or are all they rammed like here in the South UK?

Never need to book anything in France, maybe different if you want a beach site in school holidays.

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[A S R]

Simple answer = Burstner Elegance.

 

[carolyn]

We only have a PVC but we’re with my cousin at Highlands End and they’re just downsizing from a 8.5m twin axle to a 7.5 single mainly because they’ve found over the last 2 or 3 years they’ve had increasing difficulty booking onto sites.

 

[Tony50]

I have a C1 but my wife does not so if i die out there it could be a problem otherwise no problem.

Hope you don't peg out, but , check Insurance companies, one Insurance company would not repatriate my motorhome if I was incapacitated as son would be on Insurance and expected him to collect it, although he is in full time employment.

 

[nomadic]

Thank you,not sure about Left hand drive though.Are the Hymer's good to drive?

Yes, I would say they are excellent, we full timed in a Hymer starline 700 for ten years. Max weight 4250Kgs , large garage at rear, with double bed over the garage, at the front there was a pull down double bed. We had an underslung LPG tank fitted, oh yes, it is rear wheel drive, which saved our bacon a few times. it was the merc 316 auto box, some times I wish we still had it.

 

[Loney45]

Evening all
We are new to MotorHomes but did have a twin axle caravan.We didn't fancy taking the caravan abroad so have sold it and are now looking for a Motorhome.
Budget should stretch to a 2008-2010 plate.
My main concern is the length of the twin axle/tag versions.I have seen other Q&A on the subject.
Most seem to be 8.5-8.9 mtr,so what are people's experience's travelling around France in one of these?
I am not too worried about the toll charges but i am concerned about getting to the stop over sites and not getting in ,especially as we have 2 young children.
How is it on a turning circle against a single axle?
I read something by one person that he thought the interior wears less in a tag because there is less body roll.Any thoughts on that?
Also, I have looked at a couple,one a Bessecar and the other Kontiki.Is there a better make to go for?
We really need one with a garage as we need the storage.We could go for a single axle with bunkbeds at the end over garage if there is such a thing but i haven't found one yet that is 5/6 berth.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as we are really struggling with this.
Finally,in say 10 years' time when it's showing its age would a twin axle or single sell better?..i ask as 20 year old tag ones don't seem to age so well.
Many thanks in advance.
Matt

Hi Matt,
To put another comment into the mix…….many campsites in France do not accept twin axled vehicles.

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[philann]

Hi Matt,
To put another comment into the mix…….many campsites in France do not accept twin axled vehicles.

In our experience it should be … many campsites in France do not accept twin axel caravans. The reason being, or so we were told, is that many of the itinerant travelling community have such caravans and are not wanted on tourist sites. The signs used to be most often seen on municipal sites.
Never seen a sign on a campsite that says no three axel motorhomes or camping cars.