Towing tests face the axe (ref B+E licence)?

[jongood]

You obviously havent worked for a blue chip company we invested in our drivers Anti roll over practical training ,Tachograph, ADR ,safe manoeuvres all practical & theory .There's good training providers and cheap training providers .

Years ago I did but I now do it to fit around my lifestyle more. I'm pretty good at it and can work more or less on my own terms and this leads me to believe that I'm a valuable resource to the 2 companies I work for. But no theyre not going to pay for it for a part timer and if you go out looking for DCPC training for semi retired etc you would see how limited and basically pointless the courses are. Which is why so many of the weekend/wtd gap fillers are not renewing.

 

[Ivory55]

You obviously havent worked for a blue chip company we invested in our drivers Anti roll over practical training ,Tachograph, ADR ,safe manoeuvres all practical & theory .There's good training providers and cheap training providers .

No doubt that there is good and bad, but when you have to pay for your own and unpaid for the day the cheapest you can find is what you want, and also this not a big bucks earning area

 

[Alex and Lesley]

My gut tells me that the DVSA plan to revert back to the pre 1997 system where the B+E, C1, C1+E, D1 and D1+E will all be added when the Category B (Car Licence) is granted, they are looking to pass the off road manoeuvres pass/fail over to the Driving Schools as well so looks like they are planning on getting rid of the Driving Test centres possibly as well! There is to be a Consultation on this as well as possibly doing away with the “ staged testing” requirement for LGV. Time will tell.

 

[Otter Spotter]

This is an interesting article just published in the Daily Telegraph, relating to the possible ending of the B+E driving test for folk who qualified after 1997.

The article is linked to towing caravans, but I assume if the test is scrapped, it might also apply to younger motorhomers who learned to drive after 1997 and are currently restricted to 3,500kg max vehicle weight without an additional test?

I've copied and pasted pertinent exerts because the Telegraph operates a paywall!

Caravan towing tests face the axe to tackle lorry driver shortage

Ministers consider ending driving tests for towing heavy trailers to free up examiners' capacity for HGVs

www.telegraph.co.uk

Caravan towing tests face the axe to tackle lorry driver shortage​

Ministers consider ending driving tests for towing heavy trailers to free up examiners' capacity for HGVs

Tests for car drivers who want to tow a heavy caravan could be scrapped to free up examiners for truckers as ministers race to combat the UK’s HGV crisis.

The government is considering relaxing requirements for the so-called B+E test, which millions of motorists have to take if they want to drive a car with a trailer where the two have a combined weight of at least 3.5 tonnes.

If the plan goes ahead, it is hoped testing staff can instead focus on clearing a backlog of would-be hauliers seeking a HGV licence.

The measures are just one of a raft of packages proposed to try to boost the number of HGV drivers in the UK, unveiled in a letter to haulage industry leaders from the secretaries of state for Transport; Work and Pensions; and the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

Any driver who was granted their normal licence after 1997 must pass a B+E test if they breach the 3.5 tonne limit. Most cars and trailers come in below this weight, but the licence is likely to apply for drivers of heavy SUVs who want to tow a horsebox or caravan.
Drivers who passed before 1997 can haul a trailer if the combined weight is below 8.25 tonnes without taking the B+E test. Id the post-1997 rules are relaxed to the same extent, almost no drivers would have to take the exam.

It came after supermarkets and haulier demanded action from the Government to tackle an estimated 100,000 shortfall of qualified truckers in the UK, amid fears of possible food shortages as goods cannot be moved.

The Government said it is seeking to create capacity for the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency to test more lorry drivers. Extra funding has already been provided to increase HGV tests from 1,150 a week before the pandemic, to 1,500 now.

The letter added that “increased sovereignty over our decision-making that Brexit has provided” opened up further options.
Ministers are also considering a change to HGV exam requirements for off-road manoeuvres, and may issue provisional licences that cover both smaller rigid and larger articulated lorries.

I wonder how many actual towing tests are undertaken normally, I get it’s not many, judging by the number of Caravans that overtake me in the outside lane at 70+mph

 

[Ivory55]

I wonder how many actual towing tests are undertaken normally, I get it’s not many, judging by the number of Caravans that overtake me in the outside lane at 70+mph

A test only shows how good something or someone is on the day, just like an mot. If a driving test makes everyone perfect then there would be no accidents on the road.

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[Tigger-Tim]

I wonder how many actual towing tests are undertaken normally, I get it’s not many, judging by the number of Caravans that overtake me in the outside lane at 70+mph

I don't see the link.

One could say the same thing about middle lane hogs, tailgaters, people on their phone, ...

 

[Scotch mist]

Because bikes make up a tiny portion of the traffic yet the majority of the fatalities so the Government quite rightly strive for higher training and competence.

you can still drive a moped with a passenger on a car license, not a huge difference to a 125cc

 

[Tigger-Tim]

My gut tells me that the DVSA plan to revert back to the pre 1997 system where the B+E, C1, C1+E, D1 and D1+E will all be added when the Category B (Car Licence) is granted, they are looking to pass the off road manoeuvres pass/fail over to the Driving Schools as well so looks like they are planning on getting rid of the Driving Test centres possibly as well! There is to be a Consultation on this as well as possibly doing away with the “ staged testing” requirement for LGV. Time will tell.

Bringing back an automatic C1 might stop the ridiculous cases of 3500Kg MHs and campers with almost no payload.

And bringing back an automatic B+E (perhaps with an hour or two of specialist tuition) would make it much easier for caravanners to chose safe, legal combinations.

... and I doubt that there would be any significant rise in accidents as a result.

 

[Wilberforceftw]

Well having done the b+e wheres my refund! Knowing that won't happen I am honestly of the opinion it taught me very little and given the number who can drive upto the 7.5t combined such as my wife with no training learning it always seemed a scam anyways.

 

[Tigger-Tim]

My sister passed her test pre 1997, so can (legally) tow a large caravan.
Her husband passed his after 1997, so cannot.

She has never towed anything in her life.

He has worked in and around boats all his life - can position boats on trailers within an inch - does it every day. But to tow their caravan, he has to pass the B+E, or put L plates on and be 'supervised' by his wife.

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[Ivory55]

My sister passed her test pre 1997, so can (legally) tow a large caravan.
Her husband passed his after 1997, so cannot.

She has never towed anything in her life.

He has worked in and around boats all his life - can position boats on trailers within an inch - does it every day. But to tow their caravan, he has to pass the B+E, or put L plates on and be 'supervised' by his wife.

You could use the same argument for pensioners being after the cut off point. Why is one right but not another ?

 

[Tigger-Tim]

You could use the same argument for pensioners being after the cut off point. Why is one right but not another ?

I think everyone should have a day of top-up training (not necessarily a test) every 5 years. They can have a refresher on the highway code and have bad habits pointed out.

It doesn't mean that they will drive any better the following day. But better than our current system of taking a test at 17 (or so) and never having a moment of additional training for the rest of our lives.

 

[Tigger-Tim]

You could use the same argument for pensioners being after the cut off point. Why is one right but not another ?

PS. You're assuming that I'm in favour of a pensioner cut-off. I didn't say that. I've not looked at the evidence to see if there's an issue. Happy to be persuaded either way.

I did look at the evidence regarding caravan incidents a few years ago. At the time, people who were towing were, on average, less likely to have a fatal/serious collision than those who were not towing.

 

[Ivory55]

PS. You're assuming that I'm in favour of a pensioner cut-off. I didn't say that. I've not looked at the evidence to see if there's an issue. Happy to be persuaded either way.

I did look at the evidence regarding caravan incidents a few years ago. At the time, people who were towing were, on average, less likely to have a fatal/serious collision than those who were not towing.

It’s ok you’re the same as the rest of us. Only interested in what affected you your family or friends, we are all the same. It’s a look after number one world out there. Just pointing out that a cut off of any sort affects people in what ever walk of life they are in, which ones are right with out affecting anybody.

 

[GAVLAD]

Most people dont even know they cant tow so it will be news to them
The ones that do know go in for the test 'thinking' it will allow them to drive a motorhome over 3.5t but once again reality will be news for them
My partners son did his test, he can (legally in theory) tow my 4t motorhome with his big fat 4x4 but he cant drive my motorhome as its 4t

I sold my 5m awning to someone who had bought a 5000kg tag axle and was about to pick it up from the dealer. Everything was based around passing his test so he could drive above 3500kg. He had his test in morning and collecting van in afternoon and going away that evening with buying the awning a few days earlier. My guess is he bought the motorhome and someone has asked him afterwards if he’s entitled to drive it on his licence? And he wasn’t - hence the last minute rush.
Some people don’t do their homework and don’t care. It’ll be the same with towing. There’ll be loads on the road towing a caravan that’s bending the axle because they’ve packed everything to take with them and they’ll be oblivious to whether their licence permits.
I’m with some of you, if this happens it’s a sticking plaster!

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[Wilberforceftw]

My gut tells me that the DVSA plan to revert back to the pre 1997 system where the B+E, C1, C1+E, D1 and D1+E will all be added when the Category B (Car Licence) is granted, they are looking to pass the off road manoeuvres pass/fail over to the Driving Schools as well so looks like they are planning on getting rid of the Driving Test centres possibly as well! There is to be a Consultation on this as well as possibly doing away with the “ staged testing” requirement for LGV. Time will tell.

I'd be happy with that but no doubt if they did I'd be in some weired 1997 to 2021 window that misses out and my daughter who passed on Friday could drive more than me

 

[mpdcymru]

Have you done any? utter rubbish, I'm always ready to learn stuff but after 10 of these I can't think of one useful thing Ive gained. AFAICS one session every 5 years would still be more than enough for all but the stupidest.

Yes, I have done several, I have also written and presented many courses but all I was doing above as answering the question asked by knickam. I can't see how that prompted your reply

 

[jongood]

I think everyone should have a day of top-up training (not necessarily a test) every 5 years. They can have a refresher on the highway code and have bad habits pointed out.

It doesn't mean that they will drive any better the following day. But better than our current system of taking a test at 17 (or so) and never having a moment of additional training for the rest of our lives.

I completely agree, its ridiculous that there are people on our roads that have had no driving assessments for 50 years +. I really cant see why you wouldnt do retests or at least refreshers

 

[jongood]

Yes, I have done several, I have also written and presented many courses but all I was doing above as answering the question asked by knickam. I can't see how that prompted your reply

Apologies, on rereading my post it was too ambiguous, I was intending to criticise the DCPC system in general not your post specifically.

 

[bigwood]

Meany years ago management phoned me to say she had got our trailer tent stuck in a dead end road and couldn’t turn round. I told here to unhitch it and push it round then turn the car round. She thought I was going to turn it round for her unfortunately I was 100 miles away on a recovery job.
I had an hour with her on a car park after that shunting the trailer backwards.

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[nicholsong]

I completely agree, its ridiculous that there are people on our roads that have had no driving assessments for 50 years +. I really cant see why you wouldnt do retests or at least refreshers

I get a 'driving assessment' from Her everytime we go out!

 

[jongood]

I get a 'driving assessment' from Her everytime we go out!

me too Geoff. Have you ever passed one?

 

[Gromett]

I need to take my B+E but due to covid the booking times are really really long and queues for driving instructors are pretty long as well.

With this news, I am tempted to wait it out and see. I took my test in 1999 because prior to this I just rode motorbikes and never saw the point to getting a car test. My boss at the time forced me to take it, paid for it and got me a car in return. Hence me being so late in life getting my car license.

 

[Otter Spotter]

I get a 'driving assessment' from Her everytime we go out!

Same here I pick having to remind her that the van does not have duel controls and brakes don’t work by making funny noises

 

[nicholsong]

me too Geoff. Have you ever passed one?

Jon

Not with Her, but just before I retired from professional driving my travel firm put us through assessments with ex-police driving instructors and the only comment at the end about we two examinees was "If all drivers drove like you we would not have many accidents on the road"

Part of the test was to drive around the E. Grinstead one-way system through numerous traffic lights without stopping - suppose it was a test of anticipation - or patience?

Geoff

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[Jonno1103]

I'm governed to 3500kg and can tow a 750kg trailer but... I'm not allowed to drive a 4250kg motorhome, It's ridiculous. Needed a trailer with the Tracker EKS as the payload was so small.

I use a trailer on the car to take a garage full of cardboard to the recyclers every other week, bought the Superb with the integrated tow bar purely for that reason (ok, it's a bit quick too).

 

[denisejoe]

It doesn’t make sense, and one that I have often pondered over. I’ve had a 5T motorhome and now a 7.5T motorhome but, I had to take and pass a test to ride a 125 scooter..crazy.

Totally different machines if you have a license to ride a 125cc scooter you also have a license to ride a 180mph super bike

 

[Tigger-Tim]

Totally different machines if you have a license to ride a 125cc scooter you also have a license to ride a 180mph super bike

I was one of the last to pass my test on a 125 and get a full bike licence. Much harder to do now.

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[Jim]

I completely disagree with this move. It’s already cringeworthy the amount of caravanners who can’t reverse.

They'd be able to do it if you weren't watching them.

 

[Jim]

Caravans make much more sense for young people with families. Reinstating their towing rights without a test will be a good thing

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