Towing tests face the axe (ref B+E licence)?

[Googlebot]

Caravanning life can be very different to motorhoming. When we had a caravan I might only take it out 2-3 times a year. We'd put it on a pitch, and it stays there until we leave.

Any skill needs practice. And only 3 times a year will leave anyone rusty.

I don’t disagree, you’re absolutely right. I think the point is though the B+E requires you being able to reverse. Grandfather rights don’t, even in a straight line which is the easiest.

People having to engage the mover in Toll lanes when the barrier sticks or on the tunnel after going too far forward are prime examples.

 

[Lenny HB]

I got quite good at reversing a caravan but still had a mover on the van mainly to save my back. But I've always been crap at reversing a small trailer that definitely is an art.

Quite easy to hone up your Motorhome reversing skills just get stuck in a small Spanish/Portuguese or French village it works wonders for your reversing skills.

 

[Neil S]

They could sort a lot of the lorry driver shortage out tomorrow if they tackled the BS that is the driver CPC. There are so many older guys with licenses and more to the point experience and knowledge who are refusing to do it. Ive done it twice now and its the same crap it was the first time and I didn't benefit from it then.

I would go back and help out for a few months at the drop of a hat if they exempted us older drivers from the DCPC
Still hold a current LGV1 & PCV entitlement but my DCPC expired in 2019 and I’m not willing to sit in a class room for 5 days just to do a bit of part time driving .

 

[Lenny HB]

Forgot to mention I'm an expert at getting stuck in Spainish/Portuguese & French villages.

 

[the1andonly]

It doesn’t make sense, and one that I have often pondered over. I’ve had a 5T motorhome and now a 7.5T motorhome but, I had to take and pass a test to ride a 125 scooter..crazy.

So i passed my test on a 125cc bike. Would you expect me to just jump into your 7 t mh.
No? Whats the difference.

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[Geo]

I live in Devon & it’s laughable the amount of even small car drivers (don’t get me started on the big beamers etc & 4x4’s) who either can’t or refuse to reverse when I meet them at a passing place on one of our numerous “a little narrow” roads

In My American RV days I had this happen a good few times
I had a very convincing approach after getting the "No you reverse" response I would close the curtains and raise the Wingard TV arial
it never failed

 

[Speve]

I don't know any non-professional that can confidently reverse under all circumstances.

I’m not so bad at it thanks once reversed our twin axle car trailer with the 7.2m motorhome back down a dead end Spanish single track with no turning places for around half a mile with no dramas or shunts, just have to take your time
all due to trusting sat nav to muchlesson learned

 

[pelican]

well that will save young Itinerants any problems moving around

 

[mpdcymru]

Do the PSV CPC modules count towards an HGV CPC if you have both licences?

Yes, illogical as it may seem!

 

[Derek’soldvan]

In My American RV days I had this happen a good few times
I had a very convincing approach after getting the "No you reverse" response I would close the curtains and raise the Wingard TV arial
it never failed

I dangle my keys out of the window when I’m my car, because I live where so many want to come I go the other way where the roads, on the whole, are a bit more manageable for those that can’t or won’t

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[jongood]

Do the PSV CPC modules count towards an HGV CPC if you have both licences?

They didn't when it started. I heard that they had changed it but dont know if they have

Any test for the average driver would still not give them the confidence needed to reverse a modern caravan on a crowded site. There are sites that simply don't have room in front of the pitch to allow a reverse-in. And what if nose to wall is a good position? Motor movers fill an essential need especially for the less able. I know two caravanners who would be unable to access or leave their drives without one. Reversing a trailer of any sort requires enthusiasm, a willingness to keep trying, and a thick skin. Even with those attributes there will be times when a motor mover (or a bunch of willing helpers) is needed. How many on here with a toad can perform any complex reversing manoeuvre?

I agree that motor movers perform a useful purpose but still think that a person taking any vehicle onto the highway should be capable of performing all reasonable manoeuvres including reversing.

 

[jongood]

Yes, illogical as it may seem!

Have you done any? utter rubbish, I'm always ready to learn stuff but after 10 of these I can't think of one useful thing Ive gained. AFAICS one session every 5 years would still be more than enough for all but the stupidest.

 

[Wikky]

I completely disagree with this move. It’s already cringeworthy the amount of caravanners who can’t reverse.

I completely agree but it does provide sport when I'm sitting in the mh with a glass of red.
In the last 2 years I can only recall 3 caravanners who managed the old school reverse on to a pitch. Motormovers have dumbed down this important skill.

 

[Jenka]

I would go back and help out for a few months at the drop of a hat if they exempted us older drivers from the DCPC
Still hold a current LGV1 & PCV entitlement but my DCPC expired in 2019 and I’m not willing to sit in a class room for 5 days just to do a bit of part time driving .

Where i agree the DCPC is a pain most companies will pay for it and subsequently register their Driver induction and HSE training such as ADR etc so your actually not doing any more training than normal .

 

[Jenka]

Whoopee. Should make the roads a lot safer. Sovereignty indeed.

Safer than a lot of EE professional drivers !

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[Neil S]

Where i agree the DCPC is a pain most companies will pay for it and subsequently register their Driver induction and HSE training such as ADR etc so your actually not doing any more training than normal .

I only want to do a couple of days a week , round where I live local firms will offer you work but they won't pay for DCPC if your only want part time.
Either way there are lots of retired qualified drivers who could help out and the government could easily exempt them temporarily

 

[tonyidle]

They didn't when it started. I heard that they had changed it but dont know if they have

I agree that motor movers perform a useful purpose but still think that a person taking any vehicle onto the highway should be capable of performing all reasonable manoeuvres including reversing.

Agreed (tell that to the toaders). I'm happy reversing to turn around in the road and to put my trailer on a pitch. Long distance reversing along a narrow road I can manage but with limited visibility of the trailer (notwithstanding the rear view camera) it is more problematic and I wouldn't willingly do it for an approaching car. I'd like to get around to fitting a motor mover to the trailer though so I could move it with the car loaded on a grass pitch. Reversing any very short (and narrow) trailer in a straight line behind a motorhome is close to impossible. I avoided toading because of the reversing issues.

 

[Jenka]

I only want to do a couple of days a week , round where I live local firms will offer you work but they won't pay for DCPC if your only want part time.
Either way there are lots of retired qualified drivers who could help out and the government could easily exempt them temporarily

Im all for old school ,however with a rig at around £200000 +load etc then no way would i let any one lose with out training ,new trucks and trailers ,legislation are far more complicated these days and why would a retired guy want to max hours every day .

 

[Ivory55]

Im all for old school ,however with a rig at around £200000 +load etc then no way would i let any one lose with out training ,new trucks and trailers ,legislation are far more complicated these days and why would a retired guy want to max hours every day .

Who wants to max out their hours full stop, I think 15 for the week is plenty. Haha

 

[ambulancekidd]

From what I see if it was not for motor movers they would need an extra day's holiday to be able to site the van

Many a true word said in jest.
I was brought up farming, so learned to drive at aged about 7 & driving (reversing ) a trailer is second nature.
In my caravanning days, I used to revel in being on site for the entertainment of the can't reverse mob, of course that was pre motor mover days, but as already said on here, some folks can't reverse a small car into a parking space & just shouldn't be allowed to drive full stop.

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[The Dotties]

Do the PSV CPC modules count towards an HGV CPC if you have both licences?

Yes. Same dcpc covers both licences.

 

[nicholsong]

I cannot read the link the OP made to the DT article.

If the tests are 'axed' does it mean potential drivers in B+E are exempt from the test, or that they cannot tow until tests are restored?

Geoff

 

[gus-lopez]

Caravanning life can be very different to motorhoming. When we had a caravan I might only take it out 2-3 times a year. We'd put it on a pitch, and it stays there until we leave.

Any skill needs practice. And only 3 times a year will leave anyone rusty.

& that is why they should also be mot'd

So what made all of us pre 1997 with grandfather rights able to tow and reverse trailers with no tuition.

skill & practice

but we did allright with a bit of practice.

exactly

People having to engage the mover in Toll lanes when the barrier sticks or on the tunnel after going too far forward are prime examples.

They should just be asked to get ot then knee capped.Nothing less

but as already said on here, some folks can't reverse a small car into a parking space & just shouldn't be allowed to drive full stop.

Far too ture.
at least you know when you meet a spaniard heretowing they've passed a test to tow the trailer.

I don't know any non-professional that can confidently reverse under all circumstances.

I consider myself good at towing & reversing . I have no trouble keeping it straight for long distances but then again I practice. I also practice revering on the cameras only,the same as on an empty road I practice driving forwards using the white lines in the mirror as a guide to staying on the road.

 

[gus-lopez]

I cannot read the link the OP made to the DT article.

If the tests are 'axed' does it mean potential drivers in B+E are exempt from the test, or that they cannot tow until tests are restored?

Geoff

It reads as tough they will let them tow without a test . completely wrong.

 

[mikebeaches]

I cannot read the link the OP made to the DT article.

If the tests are 'axed' does it mean potential drivers in B+E are exempt from the test, or that they cannot tow until tests are restored?

Geoff

The intention is that potential B+E drivers are exempt and can tow larger rigs without taking an extra test, the same as those who passed their test before 1997.

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[Tigger-Tim]

>> & that is why they should also be mot'd
The majority of new-ish caravans are serviced annually, including a strip down of the brakes and running gear.

I've not seen any evidence that unroadworthy caravans leave a trail of death and destruction. Most accidents seem to be caused by loading or driving errors.

 

[jongood]

Im all for old school ,however with a rig at around £200000 +load etc then no way would i let any one lose with out training ,new trucks and trailers ,legislation are far more complicated these days and why would a retired guy want to max hours every day .

Where have you beentaking them . All of mine have been talking shops with more breaks than anything else, I've not heard of anyone whose had any actual training, driving, fuel consumption, strapping? Not one. And on 2 of mine I had to correct basic errors of the "instructor " who in this particular case was a retrained motorcycle instructor who I dont believe had ever even been in a truck.

I get it for the new pass guys but I don't claim to know it all but haven't benefitted in any way - thats not right.

 

[Jenka]

Where have you beentaking them . All of mine have been talking shops with more breaks than anything else, I've not heard of anyone whose had any actual training, driving, fuel consumption, strapping? Not one. And on 2 of mine I had to correct basic errors of the "instructor " who in this particular case was a retrained motorcycle instructor who I dont believe had ever even been in a truck.

I get it for the new pass guys but I don't claim to know it all but haven't benefitted in any way - thats not right.

You obviously havent worked for a blue chip company we invested in our drivers Anti roll over practical training ,Tachograph, ADR ,safe manoeuvres all practical & theory .There's good training providers and cheap training providers .

 

[JockandRita]

Do the PSV CPC modules count towards an HGV CPC if you have both licences?

As with others, yes they do.

I would go back and help out for a few months at the drop of a hat if they exempted us older drivers from the DCPC
Still hold a current LGV1 & PCV entitlement but my DCPC expired in 2019 and I’m not willing to sit in a class room for 5 days just to do a bit of part time driving .

You and me both Neil, but I am not coughing up for A DCPC. I'll cough up for a new Digital Tachograph Card, and possibly my medical at D4D, but that's it.

Im all for old school ,however with a rig at around £200000 +load etc then no way would i let any one lose with out training ,new trucks and trailers ,legislation are far more complicated these days and why would a retired guy want to max hours every day .

The easy way round that is for the likes of Neil and myself to ride shotgun, and spend a day's refresher training with your most experienced driver. Easy peasy, and you get first hand feedback from your driver.

I managed to escape the DCPC for several years due to the rules at the time, but having done it twice now in the last 14 x years, I think the whole thing is a complete nonsense, with instructors being no more qualified than a blooming car driver.
We even had one knobhead of an instructor make some totally unrealistic and seriously incorrect comment about PPE...........the same as Firefighters wear. He got a right strip torn off him in front of others, as there were two of us on the same course eager to point out the error of his ways
How can they possibly qualify to teach DCPC, when they have no on road experience with HGV/PSV?

Jock.

 

[deleted79651]

Caravanning life can be very different to motorhoming. When we had a caravan I might only take it out 2-3 times a year. We'd put it on a pitch, and it stays there until we leave.

Any skill needs practice. And only 3 times a year will leave anyone rusty.

I said much the same thing to Elaine this morning ...

Steve

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