Sunday Times letters page , travel

[Barclaybasher]

Are you going to pay for it ? As said if you can take it there you can take it away just as easily

NO the provider of the picnic area provides it in this case Chatsworth Estates which benefits from the visitors

 

[PeteH]

Ok. So as the basis for a Reply to Ms Gunn. How does this sound?. Not posted as I might edit it yet. And I would rather have an e-mail. OR send it to the Sunday Times even?..

Dear. M`s Gunn

Following the publishing of your letter to the Sunday Times. In which you observed that trash, waste and even excrement, are regularly deposited in places where those with motor homes and camper vans allegedly "wild camp". May I respectfully point out that the vast majority of such vehicles have toilet, washing and waste holding facilities built in?. Which begs the question? does such "waste" actually belong to said users?. Ask yourself, why?, would those who have the facilities to carry their detritus away, need to abuse a beauty spot in such a way. Has the act actually been observed? and by whom?. In my experience, Most "fly tipping", a similar act, is carried out by those who live within a short distance of the "crime". Much of the filth seen in our streets and towns comes from cars or is dropped by pedestrians, Many times it has been reported of soiled "nappies" being thrown from car windows?. It is, in my view, far more likely that car borne picnickers are the more likely culprits, one has only to visit a picnic area after a weekend to be confronted by vast amounts of detritus of all types. Only recently we visited a local beach, to exercise our small dog, and observed several bags of what was clearly human faeces, left on the beach but within a few yards of provided waste bins?. Your further observation, re; the use of designated camp grounds has issues too, many are not convenient, have restrictions regarding access/times. And to be quite frank are overpriced, when one considers that many who travel this route start early morning and may not arrive until late evening, then a full day fee is not a fair cost. What is needed are simple sites where one can overnight, perhaps take fresh water and dump waste and "soil", along the lines of the French "Aire" system?, where one can so do for a small fee and very often even free. As for your point about spending, I would deign to take issue with you there. Whilst I cannot speak for every traveller, it is a fact that we make use of local suppliers and are often the users of local restaurants and hostelries. Whilst this may not satisfy all, it would be good to remember that even a small contribution is far better than non at all and in my view is what could happen if the visitor numbers where to fall, as a result of those who now come deciding to vote with their wheels and go elsewhere?. I follow many of the forum and some social media platforms. And there are many there who cannot wait for continental Europe to open up again to enjoy the less restricted and more welcoming attitudes therein.

 

[Ivory55]

You’re welcome to pay for it. Personally I would rather spend my money on myself

 

[Ivory55]

NO the provider of the picnic area provides it in this case Chatsworth Estates which benefits from the visitors

Sorry I thought you said lay-bys should have free bins and toilet.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Sorry I thought you said lay-bys should have free bins and toilet.

So they should - where do local authorities expect travellers to pee and dump when they have closed the few public toilets that were still open?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Ivory55]

So they should - where do local authorities expect travellers to pee and dump when they have closed the few public toilets that were still open?

I do like people who love spending others money, if you feel so strong about it perhaps you could pay for them and not expect others to pay for your ideas.

 

[Barclaybasher]

I do like people who love spending others money, if you feel so strong about it perhaps you could pay for them and not expect others to pay for your ideas.

I already pay for them in taxes - but others choose where to waste that money

 

[Ivory55]

I already pay for them in taxes - but others choose where to waste that money

But you’re taxes don’t pay for my area, it would be my taxes here. As such I would rather they was spent for my benefit not yours.

 

[Barclaybasher]

But you’re taxes don’t pay for my area, it would be my taxes here. As such I would rather they was spent for my benefit not yours.

My income tax covers all areas, council tax is local - I pay that as well

 

[Ivory55]

My income tax covers all areas, council tax is local - I pay that as well

Sorry I didn’t know income tax paid for bins , I thought it was local council tax, which made me think you didn’t live here so was not paying for the bins here

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[joe and sue]

But you’re taxes don’t pay for my area, it would be my taxes here. As such I would rather they was spent for my benefit not yours.

So you willnot use any facilities and take your waste back home with you when you travel outside your own area, I think not, you will use the facilities available there, won't you.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Sorry I didn’t know income tax paid for bins , I thought it was local council tax, which made me think you didn’t live here so was not paying for the bins here

For your information 31% of all local authority income is from central government (latest figures) - General taxation

 

[Ivory55]

So you willnot use any facilities and take your waste back home with you when you travel outside your own area, I think not, you will use the facilities available there, won't you.

We do yes , the other half has a bag in the motorhome for it or the car. We do not stay in lay-bys we pay to use camp sites so pay to have any waste disposed of , the same if we go to the pub etc.

 

[Ivory55]

For your information 31% of all local authority income is from central government (latest figures) - General taxation

So you can only leave 31% of your waste then, haha

 

[funflair]

It was a picnic area - why provide tables and no bins?

The waste was not from one family

It's time that waste bins and toilets are serviced, same goes for laybys.

No public toilets and shops and pubs etc closed.......

Somebody at least tried

Must be quite a coincidence that everybody that used that table that day also used a red cup, I don't know where the black bag came from but I don't imagine Chatsworth left loose bags lying around so possibly somebody took it with them, in my book you take your rubbish home if there is not a bit.

Martin

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Barclaybasher]

So you can only leave 31% of your waste then, haha

Just forward your address and I will oblige if I am in the area

 

[Barclaybasher]

Must be quite a coincidence that everybody that used that table that day also used a red cup, I don't know where the black bag came from but I don't imagine Chatsworth left loose bags lying around so possibly somebody took it with them, in my book you take your rubbish home if there is not a bit.

Martin

Too much rubbish for one family - 15 or so red cups - probably from the cafe, employee bagged the rubbish and left it to be picked up but the fox got there first

 

[Ivory55]

Could be something like a child’s birthday party and they don’t want the mess etc at home or their furniture wrecked.

 

[bilM]

I believe Frances Gunn is Deputy Lieutenant of Sutherland and perhaps reflects local opinion rather than self interest.

Went to Tongue school with Frances and served my Apprenticeship with her husband. I also can assure you she does reflect local opinion well most.

 

[2x2camper]

Ok. So as the basis for a Reply to Ms Gunn. How does this sound?. Not posted as I might edit it yet. And I would rather have an e-mail. OR send it to the Sunday Times even?..

Dear. M`s Gunn

Following the publishing of your letter to the Sunday Times. In which you observed that trash, waste and even excrement, are regularly deposited in places where those with motor homes and camper vans allegedly "wild camp". May I respectfully point out that the vast majority of such vehicles have toilet, washing and waste holding facilities built in?. Which begs the question? does such "waste" actually belong to said users?. Ask yourself, why?, would those who have the facilities to carry their detritus away, need to abuse a beauty spot in such a way. Has the act actually been observed? and by whom?. In my experience, Most "fly tipping", a similar act, is carried out by those who live within a short distance of the "crime". Much of the filth seen in our streets and towns comes from cars or is dropped by pedestrians, Many times it has been reported of soiled "nappies" being thrown from car windows?. It is, in my view, far more likely that car borne picnickers are the more likely culprits, one has only to visit a picnic area after a weekend to be confronted by vast amounts of detritus of all types. Only recently we visited a local beach, to exercise our small dog, and observed several bags of what was clearly human faeces, left on the beach but within a few yards of provided waste bins?. Your further observation, re; the use of designated camp grounds has issues too, many are not convenient, have restrictions regarding access/times. And to be quite frank are overpriced, when one considers that many who travel this route start early morning and may not arrive until late evening, then a full day fee is not a fair cost. What is needed are simple sites where one can overnight, perhaps take fresh water and dump waste and "soil", along the lines of the French "Aire" system?, where one can so do for a small fee and very often even free. As for your point about spending, I would deign to take issue with you there. Whilst I cannot speak for every traveller, it is a fact that we make use of local suppliers and are often the users of local restaurants and hostelries. Whilst this may not satisfy all, it would be good to remember that even a small contribution is far better than non at all and in my view is what could happen if the visitor numbers where to fall, as a result of those who now come deciding to vote with their wheels and go elsewhere?. I follow many of the forum and some social media platforms. And there are many there who cannot wait for continental Europe to open up again to enjoy the less restricted and more welcoming attitudes therein.

Sorry but the first part of it accuses Ms Gunn of not having any evidence of the waste coming from Motorhomes, then you accuse others of causing waste without providing any evidence yourself. While you have a point about he type of facilities you would like I don't think it helpful to say that many want to go to Europe, she may be quite happy for them to do so.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[bilM]

spent in the local community.

The locals dont spend in the local community they nip down to Inverness.

 

[2657]

We have toured Northern Scotland for 50 years in tents, caravans, motorhomes, campervans and even cars using B&B's, BIL lives near Beauly and we visit every year. General opinion seems to be that the creation of the NC 500 was the worst thing that could have happened to the area.

 

[spitfire]

We lived in Halkirk near Thurso and our children we both educated there . We were very sad to leave after 14 years. Visited again in 2011 and again in 2017 and must say the influx of tourists especially in motorhomes has not improved the area. It does bring some extra money but as anyone who has travelled the north coast not a huge amount as isn’t really many places to spend your money !
We had french friends with us and they days they loved it better in 2011 than 2017 and glad they saw it at its best and I must agree with them . It was no longer the quiet , remote beautiful place I was so sad to leave .

 

[Grianan]

We have toured Northern Scotland for 50 years in tents, caravans, motorhomes, campervans and even cars using B&B's, BIL lives near Beauly and we visit every year. General opinion seems to be that the creation of the NC 500 was the worst thing that could have happened to the area.

Certainly a mixed blessing at best. It has been good for cafes hotels etc on main route but also caused no end of problems as infrastructure - roads, parking, loos etc cannot support the extra vehicles.

 

[AXO66]

Ok. So as the basis for a Reply to Ms Gunn. How does this sound?. Not posted as I might edit it yet. And I would rather have an e-mail. OR send it to the Sunday Times even?..

Dear. M`s Gunn

Following the publishing of your letter to the Sunday Times. In which you observed that trash, waste and even excrement, are regularly deposited in places where those with motor homes and camper vans allegedly "wild camp". May I respectfully point out that the vast majority of such vehicles have toilet, washing and waste holding facilities built in?. Which begs the question? does such "waste" actually belong to said users?. Ask yourself, why?, would those who have the facilities to carry their detritus away, need to abuse a beauty spot in such a way. Has the act actually been observed? and by whom?. In my experience, Most "fly tipping", a similar act, is carried out by those who live within a short distance of the "crime". Much of the filth seen in our streets and towns comes from cars or is dropped by pedestrians, Many times it has been reported of soiled "nappies" being thrown from car windows?. It is, in my view, far more likely that car borne picnickers are the more likely culprits, one has only to visit a picnic area after a weekend to be confronted by vast amounts of detritus of all types. Only recently we visited a local beach, to exercise our small dog, and observed several bags of what was clearly human faeces, left on the beach but within a few yards of provided waste bins?. Your further observation, re; the use of designated camp grounds has issues too, many are not convenient, have restrictions regarding access/times. And to be quite frank are overpriced, when one considers that many who travel this route start early morning and may not arrive until late evening, then a full day fee is not a fair cost. What is needed are simple sites where one can overnight, perhaps take fresh water and dump waste and "soil", along the lines of the French "Aire" system?, where one can so do for a small fee and very often even free. As for your point about spending, I would deign to take issue with you there. Whilst I cannot speak for every traveller, it is a fact that we make use of local suppliers and are often the users of local restaurants and hostelries. Whilst this may not satisfy all, it would be good to remember that even a small contribution is far better than non at all and in my view is what could happen if the visitor numbers where to fall, as a result of those who now come deciding to vote with their wheels and go elsewhere?. I follow many of the forum and some social media platforms. And there are many there who cannot wait for continental Europe to open up again to enjoy the less restricted and more welcoming attitudes therein.

well done.
maybe a copy to Times?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[busby]

NO the provider of the picnic area provides it in this case Chatsworth Estates which benefits from the visitors

Chatsworth is free in the actual grounds.Gardens and House are the only place you pay.BUSBY.

 

[Ivory55]

Even if facilities are provided people don’t use them. Have you ever smelled the stench in the truck park at motorway services ? There is free toilets etc available there 24hrs a day.

 

[ManTheVan]

We spent a week in Sutherland last October in a MH we hired in Inverness. Blissful times (even in the frequent storms) but we made a conscious effort NOT to follow the NC500. We met nothing but kindness and the most welcoming people. WomanTheVan’s family is from Skye and the West Coast so we’d been there lots, but it was wonderful to get to Sutherland, finally!

It was never a problem disposing of litter responsibly. All of our litter was generated from locally-purchased supplies (we arrived with nothing) most of which we were able to recycle in the provided facilities, with any non-recyclable stuff also deposited in bins provided.

A slightly interesting discovery was trying to buy some fresh fish in Lochinver, a major fishing port. Although we eventually found some excellent smoked haddie in the chandlery, the locals told us that it’s really difficult to buy fish in the town, as it all seems to be sold to the continent!

We loved the NW and will be back, but never to “do” the NC500 as the best bits are found well off the published route.

 

[Bessy765]

Why not, all things have cost implications, someone has to empty the rubbish, to supply water and facilities for grey and black waste disposal etc. Provided these facilities are provided £10 is still far less than a campsite, or maybe £5 if no services. in USA national parks only self contained vans can overnight where there are no toilets they are checked and issued a sticker. I appreciate that a lot of people are on a budget, but time and again on our travels around Europe we see owners with expensive vans try to freeload whenever they can. Drive off early to avoid paying. If owners are happy for other vans to park on their drive dump their rubbish, tip their waste in the garden and not make a contribution towards their stay then good luck!

 

[george w menzies]

View attachment 394579

A photo of litter at Chatsworth posted on Fakebook - looks bad but if you look closer you can see at least one black rubbish bag - probably ripped open by a fox..................

Not every picture is all that it seems

It looks like a designated picnic area

Should not the bag have been collected?

should not the bag have been taken home with the rubbish in

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}