Steering on Fiat Ducato

[yorkiebar]

Sorry to hear that Jezza3553, hope they get the repairs done quickly.

It’ll be interesting to see if anything comes of the reports to the DVSA.

Presumably Fiat will come back with a "nothing to see here" type response to DVSA.

 

[SpeedyDux]

I disagree. The majority of vehicles on the road have been electric power assist for about 15 years.

When the vehicle electronics start to fail without prior warning, there can be a cascade of other critical electrical things that suddenly stop working as well.

When I had a recent electrical brake servo failure on my Honda hybrid (corrosion to sensor(s) inside the sealed servo unit, resulting from an inappropriate manufacturing process), the dash display began to fill with warning lights for the other things that no longer were working, including ABS (as would be expected), but surprisingly also the electronic power steering. Plus several "driver aids", but that was less important than having unassisted brakes and steering that made the car undriveable for even a few yards. Luckily this all happened when parked, not on a motorway.

The DVSA official response was along the lines of "because warning lights came on telling the driver to stop, there is no need for a safety recall". Really?

My opinion is that hydraulic assisted steering racks like the one fitted to my 2016 build Ducato are going to be inherently less troublesome. The electric power assist on recent Ducatos might make a tiny mpg improvement but there is a big downside.

 

[SunnyAdventures]

I saw this post after searching the Internet after I had the power steering fault come up and my power steering failing )on my 2023 sunlight v66, the van has done 6000 miles. I have just had the initial findings from my local Fiat commercial garage. They have informed me that the fault has been caused due to corrosion of an electrical connector. Which requires a full harness replacement, which sounds very similar to the problem #Jezza355 has had. I'm now waiting to see if Fiat will approve the repair as a warranty repair. The person I have spoken to at Fiat Commercial seems to think they won't, as in his words its been caused by water ingress. I am definitely submitting the incident to DVSA but I'd like to know if anyone has any other suggestions especially if I have to contest a rejection of the warranty submission. I will be contacting the motor ombudsman if the warranty claim is rejected. But, I would very interested to hear if any one has any other suggestions of how best to challenge Fiat if they reject the warranty claim. Does anyone know how we can get this out to as many ducato owners as possible as I feel this could lead to a serious incident.

 

[Thornebt]

I saw this post after searching the Internet after I had the power steering fault come up and my power steering failing )on my 2023 sunlight v66, the van has done 6000 miles. I have just had the initial findings from my local Fiat commercial garage. They have informed me that the fault has been caused due to corrosion of an electrical connector. Which requires a full harness replacement, which sounds very similar to the problem #Jezza355 has had. I'm now waiting to see if Fiat will approve the repair as a warranty repair. The person I have spoken to at Fiat Commercial seems to think they won't, as in his words its been caused by water ingress. I am definitely submitting the incident to DVSA but I'd like to know if anyone has any other suggestions especially if I have to contest a rejection of the warranty submission. I will be contacting the motor ombudsman if the warranty claim is rejected. But, I would very interested to hear if any one has any other suggestions of how best to challenge Fiat if they reject the warranty claim. Does anyone know how we can get this out to as many ducato owners as possible as I feel this could lead to a serious incident.

Could an auto electrician do a bespoke repair to replace the corroded electrical connector - if Fiat do not replace the harness under warranty?

 

[SunnyAdventures]

Hi sorry to jump on the thread and read your problem regarding the power steering. Im sadly in an identical situation as of today Fiat diagnosed water ingress to wiring loom on my 2024 moho causing loss of power steering. They have said they have seen this before and new looms needed but stated all parts on back orderCan I ask how you got on to date and have you had a full fix yet? If so how long were parts on order for? Any help or tips you can pass on to get our moho back on the road would be truly welcomed thanks Lee

Hi Lee I have just posted on this feed with the same problem. I will keep you informed of progress etc. I'd appreciate it if you'd be willing to do the same. All the best, Mark.

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[mitzimad]

this is another example of how the push towards electric everything saves manufacturers build costs and shift it on to the owners ive heard of so many steering faults with electric systems at 3 and 4 years old .Second part of this problem is we no longer have mechanics and auto electricians just technicians who follow a fault finding script from the manufacturers which mostly says just replace as the cost isnt ours forgot to add if anyone is interested in getting an idea about old school fault finding on modern vehicles i can recommend rms diagnostics on the tube of u.Latest one here but worth a flick back thru

 

[SunnyAdventures]

Could an auto electrician do a bespoke repair to replace the corroded electrical connector - if Fiat do not replace the harness under warranty?

Possibly, but I think Fiat need to be held to account. The van is less than a year old and has only done 6000 miles. I have seen they have redesigned the front of the latest ducatos, I wonder if they have the same problem???

 

[Pausim]

Possibly, but I think Fiat need to be held to account. The van is less than a year old and has only done 6000 miles. I have seen they have redesigned the front of the latest ducatos, I wonder if they have the same problem???

If you are still within the warranty Fiat should have no reason to refuse the claim. It is their parts and their design that have failed. If it was an A Class where the bodywork around the steering was designed by someone else then there might be an argument about who was at fault.

 

[SunnyAdventures]

Hi sorry to jump on the thread and read your problem regarding the power steering. Im sadly in an identical situation as of today Fiat diagnosed water ingress to wiring loom on my 2024 moho causing loss of power steering. They have said they have seen this before and new looms needed but stated all parts on back orderCan I ask how you got on to date and have you had a full fix yet? If so how long were parts on order for? Any help or tips you can pass on to get our moho back on the road would be truly welcomed thanks Lee

Hi Lee. Did Fiat accept repair under warranty?

 

[SunnyAdventures]

If you are still within the warranty Fiat should have no reason to refuse the claim. It is their parts and their design that have failed. If it was an A Class where the bodywork around the steering was designed by someone else then there might be an argument about who was at fault.

No the van is a coach built, not A Class and I completely agree with your comment. I'll post updates as things develop. I'm also going to post on other forums as I think this needs to be shared as much as possible to make as many owners of Ducato based vehicles aware. I urge others on here to do the same.

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[kingmid]

No the van is a coach built, not A Class and I completely agree with your comment. I'll post updates as things develop. I'm also going to post on other forums as I think this needs to be shared as much as possible to make as many owners of Ducato based vehicles aware. I urge others on here to do the same.

Hi SunnyAdventures, of the cases of failed power steering that I am aware of Fiat have repaired the vehicles under warranty. Contact Fiat Customer Service, get a case number and deal with them direct in liaison with the garage. For instance all emails were copied to me and the garage.

The Motor Ombudsman will deal with the case, but having approached them last July they still haven’t got back to me with anything other than an automated response. A bit of a waste of time.

DVSA have informed me that they are pursuing the problem with Fiat, so another report to them will further highlight the issue.
Good luck!

 

[gus-lopez]

The person I have spoken to at Fiat Commercial seems to think they won't, as in his words its been caused by water ingress

Which is Fiats fault.less than a year old means not fit for purpose.Nothing to do with anything you have done. just the usual shite manufacturers fault.

. The van is less than a year old and has only done 6000 miles.

 

[CAB96]

I saw this post after searching the Internet after I had the power steering fault come up and my power steering failing )on my 2023 sunlight v66, the van has done 6000 miles. I have just had the initial findings from my local Fiat commercial garage. They have informed me that the fault has been caused due to corrosion of an electrical connector. Which requires a full harness replacement, which sounds very similar to the problem #Jezza355 has had. I'm now waiting to see if Fiat will approve the repair as a warranty repair. The person I have spoken to at Fiat Commercial seems to think they won't, as in his words its been caused by water ingress. I am definitely submitting the incident to DVSA but I'd like to know if anyone has any other suggestions especially if I have to contest a rejection of the warranty submission. I will be contacting the motor ombudsman if the warranty claim is rejected. But, I would very interested to hear if any one has any other suggestions of how best to challenge Fiat if they reject the warranty claim. Does anyone know how we can get this out to as many ducato owners as possible as I feel this could lead to a serious incident.

If they don't approve it under warranty, take legal advice.

It was not fit for purpose, and the selling dealer should rectify it.

 

[SpeedyDux]

If you are still within the warranty Fiat should have no reason to refuse the claim. It is their parts and their design that have failed. If it was an A Class where the bodywork around the steering was designed by someone else then there might be an argument about who was at fault.

If FIAT does reject the claim under warranty T&Cs it will most likely be because they do not accept it is caused by faulty materials or a manufacturing fault in a component. In my opinion such try-ons take place when the cost of similar warranty claims becomes significant, yet the manufacturer is being let off the hook by DVSA who are not forcing a safety Recall.

 

[PlacidoD]

I am not in the market for a new van at the moment but I am appalled by what I am reading here and quite put off ever purchasing a Ducato based MoHo. A couple of thoughts:

1. How do they stay in business if vans for commercial use are off the road for many months? My guess is that the order for relevant parts will identify the chassis number and likely identify the van as chassis only supplied for coach building so it goes to the back of the queue for parts.
2. Do vans in commercial use have the same problems or is it perhaps the style of use by MoHo users that exacerbates the problem - specifically long periods when parked up and not in use?

If shopping for a new van now I think I would prefer a Transit over Ducato. Wet belt problems can be avoided by scrupulous servicing, injector failure by more regular use (Take the van for a good run at least once a month) and, crucially, parts supply seems much better.

Of course better still would be to look at a VW or Mercedes chassis. But best of all, on reflection - stick with what I have got. If it ain't broke don't fix it!!! It would be fun to have a shinny new toy but 5 gears and a Ford Duratorq engine with less than 70k on the clock on a German built motorhome has a lot to recommend it!

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[andyelbac]

As a matter of interest, and now some concern given we have a 22 plate Ducato based MH, where is this thing located? Is it easy to get to and identify? Can owners do some preemptive work, like wind lots of insulation tape around the connector to try and minimise water ingress? Apologies if that sounds daft.

 

[KUSKUS]

Same here, we have a 22 plate Carthago, do we know if the wiring problem is from water making it's way under the bonnet or water spray from below?

 

[yorkiebar]

Someone on a FB group posted some good info recently when they had this same "fault" fixed:

Original fault presented as below:- first photo.
ESC (Electronic Stability Control) failure and HDC (Hill Descent Control) failure.
Unable to drive far due to loss of power assisted steering. I’ve driven cars before that have lost power assisted steering, but this one with an axle load at 1980kg is almost impossible to drive above about 3mph.
Spoke to my Fiat Professional garage who booked me in to check it out. Problem was getting it there. Called my Van Insurance (Breakdown cover included) who arranged collection, or so I thought. AA turned up with small Ford van. He was very good and tried to see if he could fix it / diagnose fault. Eventually found the following OBD code: U1702. Note my basic Halfords OBD 2 reader could not access this code, Manufacturers approved access only.
Second photo below.
AA man organised a pick up on a AA flat bed. Later the van was delivered to my Fiat Professional garage. I spoke to the front desk engineer who immediately said “I think I know what’s wrong”. Next day I got a call to say the van was fixed. Front desk engineer said it was as suspected, water ingress into wiring loom for the electric power assistance. Two new looms fitted including the steering rack loom. He said that when the main connector was pulled out, water came pouring out. They’ve fitted the connector now with an added ‘O’ ring to hopefully stop water ingress (garage improvement). He also said the loom was originally just hanging down. They’ve now strapped it up with a cable wrap. All done under my 3 year warranty. He said this is the fourth Ducato he’s done this year with the same fault. They’ve sent off another report to Fiat to highlight the issue. They say if enough reports go in, perhaps a recall will be issued.
Below is a photo of the general area located below the cab battery box in front of the fuel tank ( photo 3 ). I’m not sure which looms were replaced, all looks quite new as van is only 2 and half years old. There are dirt splashes to be seen. However the drive back home from the garage was in filthy conditions, so could be new.
If you get a chance I would have a look at yours to see if any of these looms are hanging low.
We told the garage we had a friend with the same van. He said "send them in and we’ll take a look at it free of charge“. We told him that would be unlikely as our friends live over a hundred miles away.
I’m only glad that this steering failure happened on the drive, and not when driving on a motorway.
Hope the above informs and helps.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

Looking like I'll not be choosing a new or recent Fiat chassis MH then. Between this and the auto' gearbox issues on the late180hp models, I've not much confidence in their reliability, and we had Land Rover Discoveries for about 25 years

 

[Landy Andy]

Don’t get a BMW either. Chap at the gym has just had his electric steering fail, and BMW just told him no warranty he must have been driving through puddles

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[Barriesimpson]

The idea of something so critical as steering being fully electric is nuts. It’s just not reliable enough.

The steering is not 'fully electric' rather power assisted, and in this and most cases these days, using an electric motor instead of the old steering oil pump that ran using the auxiliary belt on the engine. A failure of said motor does not render the steering inoperable it just takes away the power assistance, so no danger of accidents or death. Before power assistance on the steering nobody had, well, power assistance as most of us oldies will remember with fondness and we were perfectly able to drive the vehicles, albeit you needed good arm muscles - depending on the vehicle. So let's not over dramatize what is just another electrical failure on modern motor vehicles, eh guys?

 

[Landy Andy]

The steering is not 'fully electric' rather power assisted, and in this and most cases these days, using an electric motor instead of the old steering oil pump that ran using the auxiliary belt on the engine. A failure of said motor does not render the steering inoperable it just takes away the power assistance, so no danger of accidents or death. Before power assistance on the steering nobody had, well, power assistance as most of us oldies will remember with fondness and we were perfectly able to drive the vehicles, albeit you needed good arm muscles - depending on the vehicle. So let's not over dramatize what is just another electrical failure on modern motor vehicles, eh guys?

To drive vehicle which doesn’t have power steering is a very different drive, to a vehicle fitted with power steering that has failed. Having worked in the motor trade, I can’t recall fluid assisted steering failing at the drop of a hat, unlike the electric version. You may class it as “just another electrical failure”. I don’t as the ability to steer is high on my list of important things for a motor vehicle.

 

[Barriesimpson]

To drive vehicle which doesn’t have power steering is a very different drive, to a vehicle fitted with power steering that has failed. Having worked in the motor trade, I can’t recall fluid assisted steering failing at the drop of a hat, unlike the electric version. You may class it as “just another electrical failure”. I don’t as the ability to steer is high on my list of important things for a motor vehicle.

But you CAN still steer.

 

[Landy Andy]

But you CAN still steer.

 

[Barriesimpson]

Come on Landy Andy, if as you say you were many years in the motor industry, you know full well that 'power assistance' only comes into play at very low speed or stopped. Driving along normally it is completely idle. This goes for hydraulic and electric systems.

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[seasideBill]

There are several accounts of similar problems with power steering failure on the Facebook Adria Twin page. I have a ‘check power steering’ message intermittently on start-up together with same for electronic handbrake and airbag. They clear quickly and the van drives ok. Van has spent 3 weeks with dealer but they couldn’t replicate the warnings so haven’t done anything! I’m concerned that power steering failure might be on the cards, so it’s back to another dealer.

 

[SpeedyDux]

To drive vehicle which doesn’t have power steering is a very different drive, to a vehicle fitted with power steering that has failed. Having worked in the motor trade, I can’t recall fluid assisted steering failing at the drop of a hat, unlike the electric version. You may class it as “just another electrical failure”. I don’t as the ability to steer is high on my list of important things for a motor vehicle.

My first car was a Healey Sprite without PAS or a brake servo. Lovely to drive.

The only sudden hydraulic PAS failure I ever had was when the auxiliary belt snapped on my Vectra. Without PAS the steering was really heavy, only just about manageable for a reasonably strong bloke. Impossible if it had been a normal woman driving.

It also meant that the water pump stopped turning. Luckily I was less than a mile from my house and made it back without overheating.

As I explained previously the electronic steering assistance on my hybrid car went inop when the electronic brake servo failed suddenly. The ECU decided to shut down the steering assistance as well! Plus cruise control, lane departure, etc, although that matters less. Linking both electronic brake and steering systems like this is bluddy awful.

I would prefer to go back to trusty old-fashioned hydraulic servos, and proper handbrakes with big levers. Are you listening, Stellantis?