Starter problem, battery or motor help please

[DavidG58]

It’s been a while since I had a problem, well about 12 months , need sone help please

Two days ago starter was sluggish after a night off grid, thought nothing of it as it was cold, following morning after another night off grid started OK, immediately stopped for fuel and restarted fine

Drove 100 miles to another off grid site, decided to move a bit but only just started

Following day (today) wouldn’t start, we have a NOCO jump pack which worked but only just

Drove to site with hook up, legs down and decided to check if we could restart

We can’t and even worse we got an awful burning smell when trying

So now have E&P deployed booked for three nights , have no confidence it will start again, but can’t move till it starts

Could be starter motor or starter battery , not sure which and have already peaked on my technical skills by using the NOCO

Any clues anybody

 

[Tombola]

Sounds like the alternator may not working.
stick your voltmeter on it and see what the reading is. Then give it a charge on ehu with your charger if you have one (or the nocco if it works)
once started check the voltage going in to it rises with the voltmeter from the alternator. If not, get it to a garage or even a halfords.

Not 100% sure about the buring smell, but failing starter motors can produce it sometimes with lots of trying usually accompanied by a whining noise

 

[Jev88]

Year and engine of base van.

Older Ducato and Boxer vans had awful earth straps. You can check this with a jump lead on neg of battery and clamped to engine block. Then try starting. Poor earth lead on starter motor too.

Ps. Was advised to avoid starting engine whilst in EHU

 

[LithiumConvert]

Older Ducato vans had awful earth straps.

Some of the new ones are not so good, either.

 

[Clivefog]

Burning smell may indicate alternator problem hence flat starter battery?
Jump start and charging test should confirm the problem.

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[DavidG58]

Mercedes sprinter 518? 2006 chassis

3.0 V6 full auto gearbox

Good news is just about the only thing we haven’t changed is the alternator in 14 years ownership we have had new starter motor and starter battery

Interestingly though I did check the controller display and even with engine running it only showed high 12V I did expect 14V

Also wondered if the drain from the fridge could be an issue when driving, maybe points to alternator issue , but don’t think the fridge switches to battery if it can’t see 14V on the D+ signal

 

[Dave and Jen]

Possibly the battery clamps are not tight? or the battery posts need cleaning.
Either is an easy check , and either could stop turning the starter.
Hope you get sorted quickly,
Cheers, Dave

 

[DavidG58]

Possibly the battery clamps are not tight? or the battery posts need cleaning.
Either is an easy check , and either could stop turning the starter.
Hope you get sorted quickly,
Cheers, Dave

I did put the NOCO directly on the battery and didn’t notice but will look again tomorrow

 

[Langtoftlad]

...what state is your vehicle battery in now?
If your alternator has been struggling perhaps it's not longer fully charged, even after your drive.
Hopefully EHU charging will top it up.

 

[Lenny HB]

Sounds like a loose connection to me, check battery terminals and earth straps also connection to the main fuse.

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[Jimbohorlicks]

As said . Check the battery connections first. A loose connection can cause arcing and a burning smell. Then the earth straps. Check if any connections are warm.( sign they may be loose) or tell tale signs of arcing.turning brown or discoloured.

 

[DavidG58]

Battery checked, absolutely nothing loose inside at least, there is no way I am going under our MH, it’s cold and I don’t have a clue what I even looking for

 

[DavidG58]

I am presuming that when the engine is running our three way fridge runs off the starter battery

If I can get started after a good charge off mains on Tuesday, I will turn the fridge off to preserve what’s left in the starter battery

 

[Jolly Jack Tar]

'Interestingly though I did check the controller display and even with engine running it only showed high 12V I did expect 14V'

Turn off your fridge and re check voltage at the panel after a good run.Your alternator should kick out about 14V BTW. Use a voltmeter at the battery terminals.

 

[Puddleduck]

I can't help but hope you get it sorted very soon - and it is a cheap, quick and easy fix.

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[Langtoftlad]

Isn't there an old school of thought that says whack a starter motor with a hammer if it sticks?

 

[DavidG58]

Isn't there an old school of thought that says whack a starter motor with a hammer if it sticks?

I am sure I remember my dad doing exactly that , back in the days when you lifted the bonnet and could see everything

I rang a friend yesterday with the same chassis and good mechanical knowledge, he said I would be hard pushed to even see it

A job too far for me

 

[Figaro]

I rang a friend yesterday with the same chassis and good mechanical knowledge, he said I would be hard pushed to even see it

Much like your turbo woes a few years ago ?
It sounds to me like the alternator not working, are there any red battery lights on the dash ?
Hope you get sorted, in the meantime plenty of gin and tonic

 

[DavidG58]

Much like your turbo woes a few years ago ?
It sounds to me like the alternator not working, are there any red battery lights on the dash ?
Hope you get sorted, in the meantime plenty of gin and tonic

Nothing on the dash, that is about my technical limit TBH

Knowing how much runs off the alternator these days I don’t think we would get far, but turning the fridge off might help a lot if that is the issue

 

[fishplug]

Don't know if the 518 is the same as my old 2008 NCV3 but there was a quick disconnect for the negative terminal on mine.

Follow the fat brown wire up from the battery and you should find it (or not!) tucked up somewhere near the centre console under the passenger side footwell.

Could just be dirty or loose.

Easy to check.

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[fishplug]

The earth strap is also worth checking.

Again, 518 might be different but mine was ..um.. 'tired'

£5 OEM part from Mercedes, ten minutes of cleaning up the bolt, the surface of the engine block and the connecting point at the chassis end and all was good.

On mine, this was on the right hand side (passenger) of the engine bay as you look down but your engine is different so that might not be relevant.

 

[GeoffnDee]

The clear plastic state of charge indicator on the battery (near the large red fuse) appears to be showing black , if so the battery is flat/needs charging/faulty (it will show green with a charged/good battery)

 

[Kim H]

David, it looks like most of the options have been covered. We too had an ongoing starter problem where the starter solenoid would just click. We had an additional earth strap fitted, later on a new starter motor and finally replaced the starter battery.

We replaced the Bosch battery which had a CCA (cold crank amps ) of 780 with Yusa 5000 with a CCA of 900 ie more grunt to turn the starter. So far so good.

Hope you get it sorted.

Anthony

 

[DavidG58]

.Your alternator should kick out about 14V BTW. Use a voltmeter at the battery terminals.

I think it must have given 14V to activate the D+ relay as the AES fridge had definitely moved to 12V

 

[DavidG58]

We have a plan

We are booked on the site till tomorrow already, so today after lunch (Bev is in a zoom meeting till 12.30) we will unhook, check what the starter battery drops to

Try to start, if it doesn’t start at all we know we have a recovery / repair situation

If it only just starts I think Bev will be too nervous to set off tomorrow so as above

If it does start I want to check a few different voltages mainly with fridge running or turned off, I think that would push blame to alternator if voltage is below 13V when running

Then after running I will check voltage again at the battery when stopped

It is due to snow here tomorrow so we are already planning to stay at least one more night , really couldn’t convince Bev to leave with a problem and snow on the roads

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[GeoffnDee]

Is the charge indicator on the battery now showing green (charged ) ?

 

[DavidG58]

Is the charge indicator on the battery now showing green (charged ) ?

It had been on charge for 36 hours when I took that photo , it is currently covered back over as it’s in the passenger well, I also don’t think I was directly over the battery indicator which might not give a true reading

The first thing I will be changing is the three year old battery and probably the 12 year old starter motor , ideally I would like to take it to be done, not recovered

We will know a bit more in 15 mins

 

[DavidG58]

No go, we definitely have a duff battery, the controller showed a dip below 11V on cranking but now back to 12.2V

At least we had no burning smell today

Going to try and find a mobile fitter to fit new battery here, don’t really want to risk jump start and driving

I guess it still might be the starter motor that’s faulty

 

[Googlebot]

Probably the battery. If it’s been on charge and still failed to start, it’s duff.

Also that voltage indicates it’s duff. Also spotted the black state of charge indicator.

I would just use the Noco and get yourselves to a local motor factors. They often fit for free too.

Of course it may be the alternator not charging has destroyed the battery too, but you will know as soon as a good battery is fitted and tested.

 

[DavidG58]

I have gone for the easy option, there is no way Bev would be happy to set off after a jump start knowing it wouldn’t restart without a faff

Local recovery service will be here in the morning with a battery just in case but probably needed. If that’s all that’s needed £325 inc Vat for battery and call out , that’s fine by me just another dent in what’s left of the savings

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