Sold to me as Euro 6 turns out to be Euro 5+

[andyman]

What was the outcome of the meeting with the dealer

 

[Stewart J]

What was the outcome of the meeting with the dealer

So far nothing they have promised to take it up with Hymer so I await the outcome.

 

[pandas]

What would you like the outcome to be - replacement vehicle, retrospective discount, all your money back?

 

[TinaLes]

What would you like the outcome to be - replacement vehicle, retrospective discount, all your money back?

Good question, we await with bated breath on that one.
Hope it gets resolved amicably though, this thread has drifted so far we are now all qualified pollution experts
We are gonna have to hitch up the horses to get through cities at this rate, and pay the congestion charge probably as they also emit methane
Les

 

[funflair]

We looked at a van on IVECO chassis at the NEC a couple of years ago, Euro 6 said the dealer and all the sales paperwork, me in surprise "is it? where does the ad-blue go" after a phone call to Germany they agreed that it was 5+ so yes these things can happen and if we had handed over the cash in all innocence we could be in the same situation as the OP.

Martin

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

We are gonna have to hitch up the horses to get through cities at this rate, and pay the congestion charge probably as they also emit methane

Ah, that will be Euro Neighne and could well include the use of flatulometers and the new AdPoo device (i.e a bag hung behind the horse just like they used to).

 

[ABZSteve]

We looked at a van on IVECO chassis at the NEC a couple of years ago, Euro 6 said the dealer and all the sales paperwork, me in surprise "is it? where does the ad-blue go" after a phone call to Germany they agreed that it was 5+ so yes these things can happen and if we had handed over the cash in all innocence we could be in the same situation as the OP.

Martin

so Euro 5+ ad-blue, Euro 6 no ad-blue, right?

 

[Deneb]

so Euro 5+ ad-blue, Euro 6 no ad-blue, right?

Euro 5+ no adblue, Euro 6 Ducato no adblue either, as Fiat stayed with EGR technology (apart from the minibus version).

Iveco vans using the same 2.3 mulitjet engine as the Ducato (which is an Iveco engine) were (are?) available as Euro 6 in both EGR (no adblue) and SCR (adblue) versions according to customer preference.

 

[funflair]

so Euro 5+ ad-blue, Euro 6 no ad-blue, right?

I was talking IVECO daily 3 litre so Euro6 is ad-blue.

Martin

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

Is there a website where I can enter the VIN or reg number and look up Euro rating? I’ve found one for cars but doesn’t work for Motorhomes

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Stonemags76]

We looked at a van on IVECO chassis at the NEC a couple of years ago, Euro 6 said the dealer and all the sales paperwork, me in surprise "is it? where does the ad-blue go" after a phone call to Germany they agreed that it was 5+ so yes these things can happen and if we had handed over the cash in all innocence we could be in the same situation as the OP.

Martin

We were signing for a new to us van, after hubby had repeatedly asked if it was Euro 6 - told yes, yes, yes! I read the COC as I was signing & it said Euro 5! Big panic by salesman, but we ended up getting a very good deal on a newer van because of it. If I hadn’t noticed we would be in the same position as the OP! The point is if you are paying for Euro 6, you should get it, and the sales people should know what they are selling!

 

[Paul and Val]

Several forum members gave me a bad time about my previous pessimistic comments regarding non-Euro 6 vehicles. See the other post - https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/not-looking-good-for-diesels-in-germany.187830/

I rest my case.

 

[tonyidle]

Several forum members gave me a bad time about my previous pessimistic comments regarding non-Euro 6 vehicles. See the other post - https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/not-looking-good-for-diesels-in-germany.187830/

I rest my case.

It probably suits most of us to be optimistic. I have never bought new and have no intention of doing so. Which means basically that I've opted to remain well behind the bleeding edge of emissions control. I suspect the majority of owners have similar views.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

to help put Euro 5 or 6 into perspective. There was some figures a while back that calculated one container ship in 1 year using Bunker Fuel is the equivalent to 50 million cars. Still agree you should go for Euro 6 if that was your expectation/specification.

'By 2020, the maritime industry is poised to shift to diesel from so-called bunker fuel. The heavy, thick fuel has been used in the cargo shipping and cruise line industry for years because it is inexpensive, especially compared to other fuels. After oil has been refined into diesel, gasoline or jet fuel, bunker fuel is what’s left over at the refinery. Effectively, it’s what’s left at the bottom of the barrel'.

That 2020 change is precisely why I was persuaded out of retirement and back into the marine fuels quality business...... your description of bunker fuel is both simple and totally accurate just to amplify a little, ships in 2020 will have a few choices..... 1) run on compliant fuel which is still heavy oil but at only 0.5% sulphur and $150-200 a tonne more expensive, 2) burn marine diesel which is about $400 a tonne more expensive 3) scrap the ship and buy one designed to run on alternative fuel such as LNG and pay massively for limited range and fuelling opportunities or 4) fit a scrubber. No, not slack Alice from Ruperts night club in South Shields but a washing system to remove the sulphur from the exhaust gases at a cost of about $3 million and a couple of weeks docking time. A container ship burns over 100 tonnes a day.

With the exception of item 3, each and every option is simply kicking the can down the road as the sulphur has to go somewhere...... plus marine fuels are notoriously poor quality anyway and will become worse in 2020. We just issued a technical bulletin about a recent spate of issues causing fuel pump siezures.

The side benefit of using scrubbers is that the particulates are also removed and washed away, usually into the sea or a holding tank.

Nothing to do with the original thread but thought that it worth including in case any non sailors are interested. Any currently serving or recently retired marine bods on here will already know this but if any more information is required then feel free to PM me.

 

[Deneb]

Several forum members gave me a bad time about my previous pessimistic comments regarding non-Euro 6 vehicles. See the other post - https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/not-looking-good-for-diesels-in-germany.187830/

I rest my case.

It was just that you came across (and still do) as suggesting that Euro 6 is the holy grail. It's not. It's just the latest in a line of emissions standards and you are either fooling yourself if you think it won't be grouped in with the other restrictions before too long, or you are prepared to spend a fortune to keep replacing your vehicles every few years to avoid having to make minor detours or avoid visiting certain areas. The latter option arguably having a greater effect on pollution and finite resources than the former.

Unfortunately we also seem to live in an age of knee-jerk reactions (I'm not pointing at you when I say this, I mean by politicians and the public at large) which become propagated over social media with increasing levels of panic and alarm until they inevitably become self-fulfilling prophecies, because the obvious political reaction to any substantive level of public concern is nowdays simply to pass another law and keep the electorate happy.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Allanm]

..........
AFAIK India AndChina account for over one third of the worlds population and the largest number of coal fired power stations. It will take rather more than changing the rules for a handful of motorhomes to counteract that.

Does that make me a racist?

No.

But I think you’ll find the USA is second in the pollution stakes to China rather then India.

 

[pandas]

It was just that you came across (and still do) as suggesting that Euro 6 is the holy grail. It's not. It's just the latest in a line of emissions standards and you are either fooling yourself if you think it won't be grouped in with the other restrictions before too long, or you are prepared to spend a fortune to keep replacing your vehicles every few years to avoid having to make minor detours or avoid visiting certain areas. The latter option arguably having a greater effect on pollution and finite resources than the former.

Unfortunately we also seem to live in an age of knee-jerk reactions (I'm not pointing at you when I say this, I mean by politicians and the public at large) which become propagated over social media with increasing levels of panic and alarm until they inevitably become self-fulfilling prophecies, because the obvious political reaction to any substantive level of public concern is nowdays simply to pass another law and keep the electorate happy.

You make a very good point.
Going back to the the original question this related to being sold a different Euro Status specification than it turned out to be.

 

[Paul and Val]

You make a very good point.
Going back to the the original question this related to being sold a different Euro Status specification than it turned out to be.

Exactly. Euro 6 is never going to be the Holy Grail but it has to be better than Euro 5. The OP was sold a motor home as a Euro 6 and they should do everything the can to sort it out. If you have a 20 year old vehicle worth 7 or 9k it will be a sad day when you can't drive it. If you have a 60k Hymer that you can't drive it is a catastrophe.

Other posters who have said that they are not bothered as they will just avoid areas that they can't drive their motorhomes to are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Personally I am no fan of tighter emissions standards but they are here to stay and increase in strictness. I am certain that I have a maximum of ten years use even with a Euro 6 vehicle. Euro 5 will be outdated far quicker. We have never had a new car in our lives but that was one reason why we went for the latest model. 100% safe for ever? Absolutely not but we have a few years.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Exactly. Euro 6 is never going to be the Holy Grail but it has to be better than Euro 5. The OP was sold a motor home as a Euro 6 and they should do everything the can to sort it out. If you have a 20 year old vehicle worth 7 or 9k it will be a sad day when you can't drive it. If you have a 60k Hymer that you can't drive it is a catastrophe.

Other posters who have said that they are not bothered as they will just avoid areas that they can't drive their motorhomes to are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Personally I am no fan of tighter emissions standards but they are here to stay and increase in strictness. I am certain that I have a maximum of ten years use even with a Euro 6 vehicle. Euro 5 will be outdated far quicker. We have never had a new car in our lives but that was one reason why we went for the latest model. 100% safe for ever? Absolutely not but we have a few years.

Sad to say that your prediction may be close to reality. We don’t know what will happen but that is a pretty good estimation plus or minus a few years. Coming back from Teesside last week, parts of the M1 were restricted to 60mph “for pollution reasons” on an almost empty road - blanket low speed restrictions will be more and more frequent.

Back to IMO 2020 marine fuels, when you think about it, the same as tier 2 and tier 3 engines and the sulphur regulations, EEOI etc, etc.....the road transport regulations do exactly the same - they kick the can down the road. The Nitrogen has to go somewhere, the DPF has to burn itself off to regenerate, exhaust gas recirculating does just that and the sulphur didn’t just disappear in the refinery process. (Sulphur was actually good for the engine; it acted as a lubricant). The only way to reduce pollution is to use alternative carbon free fuels which is why EV’s have a future despite the fact that they are environmentally unfriendly to build and run right now (industrial pollution both in manufacture and the mostly fossil fuel source of power). The only solution is to drive less and use other means of transport. I know that this has little to do with the euro 5+ vs euro 6 where the buyer has been completely mislead by the dealer from whom the van was bought.........

 

[Deneb]

Going back to the the original question this related to being sold a different Euro Status specification than it turned out to be.

We and the OP still don't know whether he has been sold a different spec vehicle, which in itself is ridiculous as it should be determinable within 5 minutes of looking at the engine.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

What did Nostradamus have to say about pollution?

 

[pandas]

We and the OP still don't know whether he has been sold a different spec vehicle, which in itself is ridiculous as it should be determinable within 5 minutes of looking at the engine.

Yes it is - something again the dealer should know - I didn't even look under the bonnet when buying my new vehicle but in my case I would not know what to look for except how to operate the bonnet catch.
No actual documentation that told me the Euro Status OR anything confirming the engine power variant, 130/150/180, as the C5 was not available at that point. It would be really useful if there was a generic check list available that you should go through when purchasing which would then stop some of these unfortunate miss selling pieces. On my list would be a clearer indication of the weight implications with all the additions to the standard model related to the plate like satellite, air con or whatever. You can tell it's a Monday morning!

 

[Lenny HB]

Coming back from Teesside last week, parts of the M1 were restricted to 60mph “for pollution reasons” on an almost empty road - blanket low speed restrictions will be more and more frequent.

Same in other counties came across it in Belgium this year.

We and the OP still don't know whether he has been sold a different spec vehicle,

Yes we do C of C says Euro 5.

 

[Deneb]

Yes we do C of C says Euro 5.

Wouldn't be the first time a CoC, V5 or other documents were wrong. Fiat can't even get it right on their online vehicle portal all of the time.

Spent enough of my life investigating provenance of motor vehicles to know that the only way to be certain is to look at the vehicle itself. The engine type code on both the engine label and stamped into the block is the only thing I or anyone else should rely on.