Sleeping in one's vehicle

[PeteH]

I "camped" for nearly a whole year on a rig site. back in the 90`s. even got EHU (out of the back window of the site office) . I had a short walk to the local pub. a chippy nearby (well 3 miles). And a freezer full of food. Made a mint out of the "Lodging Allowance"

 

[busby]

I downloaded a truck stop app to see how that compared to the camperstop type locations and was aghast at the cost of taking a rest break at the services, that you are required to by law. £26 fecking quid a night, I nearly spat my tea out..

When motorway services were first built they had to provide facilities by law for trucks,,Parking and dedicated refreshment..There was never a charge for parking..I have been retired 20 years now but never ever paid to park on a motorway service area..Was asked a few times but just refused and drew my curtains,,BUSBY.

 

[tonyidle]

When motorway services were first built they had to provide facilities by law for trucks,,Parking and dedicated refreshment..There was never a charge for parking..I have been retired 20 years now but never ever paid to park on a motorway service area..Was asked a few times but just refused and drew my curtains,,BUSBY.

But now parking rules are enforced by an outside agency you would do so at your peril.

 

[B-well]

Popcorn time again methinks .................................................

Covered in a recent thread that has now run for far too long.

wait for the grey waste treatment thread to restart this coming winter months.

 

[GJH]

Where does the advice that if you are tired whilst driving to pull over and have a sleep fit into this?

It fits in because responsible motorhomers plan their journeys to avoid becoming over tired.

I assume that you can stay in your motorhome overnight as long as you don’t go to sleep
Spongy

Why assume that? The operative word in the legislation is "habitation". Sleeping is only one form of habitation.

What would be the punishment if you were found sleeping in your van,,,nothing i would imagine,,BUSBY,,

Depends on the location. In some places a parking fine. In others it has been barriers that deny all access to all motorhomers because of the selfish actions of a few.

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[GJH]

Camping is regulated by a law that was (as far as I am aware) last updated back in the 1980`s. (but no doubt GH will be able to confirm this )

1980s? No, 2017.

 

[138go]

I wonder how long I could hide in the industrial estate if I moved the lorry every day

We have an Industrial Estate near where the MH is serviced. There must have been 12+ trucks parked along the road last time we went. Council have been down and put big bins there. All have foreign plates so just sitting waiting for return loads to Poland, Latvia etc

 

[138go]

My only current interest is that I think it is high time that the "Rules" where changed. Camping is regulated by a law that was (as far as I am aware) last updated back in the 1980`s. (but no doubt GH will be able to confirm this ) Overnighting is a term used for being able to take "rest", which in my view is essential in the interest of road safety. One see`s on most motorways signage to the effect "dont drive tired". Yet the Services make a charge after 2 hours, and the facilities are (mostly) appalling, and charges are obscene. What is required is a common sense approach, that which would allow short term stays, and sleeping (rest) but will also allow authorities to eject abusers. My suggestion would be for a (say) 24hr stay period after which it would up to the owner or lessee to decide whether to eject or allow further stay for a fee. This would legitimise a short stay but give sufficient leeway for the Police to move offenders on or fine heavily/impound vehicles if refused.

Think they call them Aires ....

 

[glenn2926]

It fits in because responsible motorhomers plan their journeys to avoid becoming over tired.

Why assume that? The operative word in the legislation is "habitation". Sleeping is only one form of habitation.

Depends on the location. In some places a parking fine. In others it has been barriers that deny all access to all motorhomers because of the selfish actions of a few.

So responsible motorhomers can plan for events like the Gin tanker crash on the M6 yesterday can they? How? The hold ups were very long and no matter how clever you think you are it is impossible to plan for such events. Having been caught up in these type of events over the years both professionally and as a private citizen I can state categorically they cannot be preplanned for.

 

[PeteH]

Think they call them Aires ....

The Teutonic variant is "Stellplatz", I am informed? We could just call them a "rose by any other name"

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[GJH]

So responsible motorhomers can plan for events like the Gin tanker crash on the M6 yesterday can they? How? The hold ups were very long and no matter how clever you think you are it is impossible to plan for such events. Having been caught up in these type of events over the years both professionally and as a private citizen I can state categorically they cannot be preplanned for.

My post, as you well know, was in response to yours asking "Where does the advice that if you are tired whilst driving to pull over and have a sleep fit into this?". On a normal journey, motorhomers, unlike truck drivers, have every opportunity to plan their journeys to avoid tiredness.
That is a totally different situation to having to cope with the effects of a motorway closure. The latter is no different from whether one is driving any other vehicle - you use the facilities available and pay any costs associated with their use.

 

[tacr2man]

Truck drivers have their anti tiredness preplanned by govt . under drivers hours regs surely ?

 

[GPW]

It fits in because responsible motorhomers plan their journeys to avoid becoming over tired.

Hahahaha, only in our dreams.
We are responsible because we are driving our own hotel room, we can't be responsible for other people denying us the use of it when required.

 

[PeteH]

As we have discussed several times, the laws governing truck drivers differ from the camping laws - for the very reason that the law recognises that truck drivers can't choose. Motorhomers, on the other hand, have every freedom to choose

So How does this fit into this?.

""The volumes of traffic, the behaviour of those who insist on having "accidents". closing the highways for hours on end.""? This type of delay is becoming more frequent, and in my view supports a move in favour of change, not negate it?.

We spent 9 Hours last year, making a 3 hour Journey. Because some driver decided to cross the path of a bus full of School kids. The A1 was closed for some hours and then only proceeded at a snails pace. Diversion alternatives as always in this situation where equally as congested. Not all Motorhome users WISH to spend all day on the highway. Some sort of "aire" or other legalised stop could be a common-sense solution.

 

[PeteH]

Truck drivers have their anti tiredness preplanned by govt . under drivers hours regs surely ?

Before I retired, you where allowed 4.5hrs max driving, ie; at the wheel, even if stopped, min 30min break and then another 4.5hrs. This could be extended to 10hrs twice per week. After which you had to take a min of 9 hours "sleep". before you could again drive. I assume this or something near it still applies. IF you where at the wheel but stopped with the Engine off, (tacho not recording movement) anything LESS than 15 min did not count. (as rest)

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[GJH]

Hahahaha, only in our dreams.
We are responsible because we are driving our own hotel room, we can't be responsible for other people denying us the use of it when required.

But that is no different from other drivers. There are no special arrangements for car drivers who become stuck in such circumstances so why should motorhome drivers be special?

 

[GJH]

So How does this fit into this?.

""The volumes of traffic, the behaviour of those who insist on having "accidents". closing the highways for hours on end.""? This type of delay is becoming more frequent, and in my view supports a move in favour of change, not negate it?.

We spent 9 Hours last year, making a 3 hour Journey. Because some driver decided to cross the path of a bus full of School kids. The A1 was closed for some hours and then only proceeded at a snails pace. Diversion alternatives as always in this situation where equally as congested. Not all Motorhome users WISH to spend all day on the highway. Some sort of "aire" or other legalised stop could be a common-sense solution.

Why should motorhome drivers have special treatment? Other drivers don't.
There are legalised stops on motorways - they are called services.

 

[PeteH]

Why should motorhome drivers have special treatment? Other drivers don't.
There are legalised stops on motorways - they are called services.

Which brings us full circle. 1) services are NOT "stopovers", They are "parking places" and no more. 2) IF you have been on Services overnight, you will appreciate the Noise, fumes, and (to put it bluntly) the Sh1t that stinks and puddles of Urine. I speak as one who has done it, reluctantly, as part of my "day" job, as a professional driver. What IS reguired, In my personal view is to remove the tag of "illegality" from acceptable alternatives.

 

[GPW]

But that is no different from other drivers. There are no special arrangements for car drivers who become stuck in such circumstances so why should motorhome drivers be special?

Why shouldn't motorhome drivers be special?
Why shouldn't all drivers be special?
Why do we have so many pathetic laws?

Good question.

 

[chaser]

Why shouldn't motorhome drivers be special?
Why shouldn't all drivers be special?
Why do we have so many pathetic laws?

Good question.

That is a question I ask very often, we are all UK citizens but we all have to abide by laws made by a few, sleeping in a motor on a car park just one, all planning nonsense when doing something to your own house , not hurting anyone but having to abide with something someone else has said, don't get me wrong , it would be chaos without all the main laws, but these little things that don't harm anyone, just someone having it over someone else.
Don't want to get into politics as it will get moved ,but you couldn't have a better example of it this last three years, these w.....are the ones making these laws

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[PeteH]

Properly thought out and implemented Laws, are for the benefit of the whole of society. So Far So Good.

Then there are the "laws" that throw the whole into ridicule. The "rules" on overnighting come into the later category. Properly drafted they would remove an anomalous situation where you can Park for the night, BUT if you SLEEP. (ie; taking rest in order to be SAFE to drive subsequently) you are committing an offence. So the alternative is you STOP, you PARK. you can`t sleep. (because that is illegal) so you move on TIRED and cause a tragedy for someone else's family?, BUT you have complied with the LAW.

Welcome to the world according to the Bureaucrat`s who frame our Laws.

 

[gus-lopez]

The latter is no different from whether one is driving any other vehicle - you use the facilities available and pay any costs associated with their use.

why should you? It was nothing to do with you that you are being inconvenienced?

But that is no different from other drivers. There are no special arrangements for car drivers who become stuck in such circumstances so why should motorhome drivers be special?

As above the same applies.

There are legalised stops on motorways - they are called services.

And in the majority of them are complete,dirty,shiteholes. Pay to stay over 2hours? They should be paying me to enter them.

So the alternative is you STOP, you PARK. you can`t sleep. (because that is illegal) so you move on TIRED and cause a tragedy for someone else's family?, BUT you have complied with the LAW.

No you can sleep ,perfectly legally , outside. Just not in any vehicle.lol

 

[GJH]

What IS reguired, In my personal view is to remove the tag of "illegality" from acceptable alternatives.

we all have to abide by laws made by a few,

Same old whinges. And yet nothing constructive to change it.
Because it is too much effort to define "acceptable alternatives" and far too easy to leave positive action to "a few".

 

[GJH]

Why shouldn't motorhome drivers be special?
Why shouldn't all drivers be special?
Why do we have so many pathetic laws?

Good question.

And in the majority of them are complete,dirty,shiteholes. Pay to stay over 2hours? They should be paying me to enter them.

As previous post. If you don't like it why don't you do something positive about it?

 

[GJH]

why should you? It was nothing to do with you that you are being inconvenienced?

People are inconvenienced by others in all sorts of ways every day. It's called life.

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[PeteH]

why should you? It was nothing to do with you that you are being inconvenienced?
As above the same applies.

And in the majority of them are complete,dirty,shiteholes. Pay to stay over 2hours? They should be paying me to enter them.

No you can sleep ,perfectly legally , outside. Just not in any vehicle.lol

That I concede, So you have a perfect good vehicle fitted for sleeping, BUT you are expected to pay (say£80p/n now a days) to sleep in crappy "lodgings", JUST in order to comply with an OUTDATED and STUPID law.?. Of course one can imagine this was the object of the "law" in the first place to ensure more income for the buddy`s of those framing it?, The way the HoC is performing on another subject just now one could well imagine them going for it. Those of us old enough to remember lorries without Sleeper cabs, also remember the poor quality of the so called "lodgings" they had to put up with! ,often including the night time visitors ("bed bugs").

IMV. It comes down to a need to removed the blanket ban on overnight sleeping. With sensible limitations on the time factor (Say 24hrs?), to enable abusers to be dealt with. The issue could be easily dealt with by law makers, in the interest of Road Safety. There are ways and means without the need to involve long winded "debate".

 

[GPW]

As previous post. If you don't like it why don't you do something positive about it?

Oh I do, I ignore all of these stupid laws whenever and wherever possible. The thought that I should obey some overpaid moron who works in government fills me with horror, as should it you.

 

[wfdTamar]

I'm Australian. Just coming to the end of 3 months in France and 1.5 months in the UK in a motorhome. It's interesting to compare the two countries approaches to this.

France has the Aires - just about every tin pot little village has some sort of free site. A lot have free water and dump points. Recycling and normal bins all over the place.

The UK is the opposite - very hard to find any decent free overnight spot or even fill water or dump waste. Very hard to even get rid of rubbish or recycling. No wonder the whole place seems like a big rubbish tip - it is everywhere - disgusting. There is very much the attitude 'if you are in an RV (caravan, camper or motorhome), you ought to stay on camp sites'. No matter how independent your vehicle is. If you don't you are branded a Itinerant, Itinerant, traveller etc. Having spent the money to make my vehicle site independent, I don't want to be paying £15-20 per night just to park overnight thanks. I might pay a nominal amount to fill and dispose of waste.

In future I will avoid holidaying in the UK at all. It's a nightmare.

 

[PeteH]

I'm Australian. Just coming to the end of 3 months in France and 1.5 months in the UK in a motorhome. It's interesting to compare the two countries approaches to this.

France has the Aires - just about every tin pot little village has some sort of free site. A lot have free water and dump points. Recycling and normal bins all over the place.

The UK is the opposite - very hard to find any decent free overnight spot or even fill water or dump waste. Very hard to even get rid of rubbish or recycling. No wonder the whole place seems like a big rubbish tip - it is everywhere - disgusting. There is very much the attitude 'if you are in an RV (caravan, camper or motorhome), you ought to stay on camp sites'. No matter how independent your vehicle is. If you don't you are branded a Itinerant, Itinerant, traveller etc. Having spent the money to make my vehicle site independent, I don't want to be paying £15-20 per night just to park overnight thanks. I might pay a nominal amount to fill and dispose of waste.

In future I will avoid holidaying in the UK at all. It's a nightmare.

Thank you for that. It is GOOD to get an opinion that comes from a completely different viewpoint than the "norm". Especially when there IS no good practical reason for the attitude of the UK authorities, beyond the blanket "but it`s always been the way we`ve done it". The vast majority Don`t want to "camp" in lay-bys and Services or other places. But would gladly pay a small fee to dispose of waste , get fresh water, Sleep / Rest, (legally) AND MOVE ON.

That IMV is what "motorhomes" are all about. If you want a week at a time on campsites, it makes far more sense to have a Car / Caravan!. BTW let me have the name of these "sites" that ONLY charge 15-20 pounds. Most sites, at least those with Facilities" are way above that now. As a CC or CCC MEMBER there are few below £22 P/N.

 

[Southdowners]

I'm Australian. Just coming to the end of 3 months in France and 1.5 months in the UK in a motorhome. It's interesting to compare the two countries approaches to this.

France has the Aires - just about every tin pot little village has some sort of free site. A lot have free water and dump points. Recycling and normal bins all over the place.

The UK is the opposite - very hard to find any decent free overnight spot or even fill water or dump waste. Very hard to even get rid of rubbish or recycling. No wonder the whole place seems like a big rubbish tip - it is everywhere - disgusting. There is very much the attitude 'if you are in an RV (caravan, camper or motorhome), you ought to stay on camp sites'. No matter how independent your vehicle is. If you don't you are branded a Itinerant, Itinerant, traveller etc. Having spent the money to make my vehicle site independent, I don't want to be paying £15-20 per night just to park overnight thanks. I might pay a nominal amount to fill and dispose of waste.

In future I will avoid holidaying in the UK at all. It's a nightmare.

I agree with everything you’ve said. We always head through the tunnel when we go away. The exception to this was when had two months in Scotland earlier in the year thinking it may be a little different to England - it wasn’t. It just reinforced our view that the only way to enjoy life on the road is to travel away from the UK.

The problem is that the UK is a small country with a massive population. We simply don’t have the space to install aires, etc. France, for example, is twice the size with pretty much the same population.

The UK is approximately 243,610 sq km, France is approximately 551,500 sq km. The population of the UK is 66 million. The Population in France is 67 million.

I wish things were different and that provision could be made for independent travel but I can’t see how it can happen.

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