Schengen (wtf)

[P4ULV]

Good morning all Funsters,
We’re currently in rainy Morocco feeling a little dampened, and I was wondering, can someone please answer me this, Why does the law only allow us to spend 90 days (in180) in the Schengen area ?
Why aren’t we free to roam??

 

[cyberyacht]

Just had a thought - how long can EU members stay in the UK on holiday?

Six months, I believe. Most temporary/holiday visitors to UK can stay six months although some require visas. Not that we have any way of checking if they leave AFAIK.

 

[gus-lopez]

I agree we would not to mix up on a trip ie go into France on NZ passport but try to leave on France on a UK Passport that would be asking for trouble.

Woman I know of who lives here has 3. Uses them all the time. In to the Uk on one out on another back on the 3rd out on the second etc, etc;

That is my understanding too but @Janhank thinks she needs a passport to travel outside Germany.

Which of us are correct?

You are.
EU citizens & UK permanent residants of an EU state holding ID cards under withdrawal act can travel the EU on them with no requirement for a passport. All the info that is on a UK passport,+ more, is on the ID card.

Yes. Bumped into some German motorhomers in Dover in the summer. They drove all the way from Germany to Calais to board the ferry to England and were somewhat surprised when they weren't allowed through border control. They had to go back home and collect their passports.

Just had a thought - how long can EU members stay in the UK on holiday?

yes EU citizens can no longer enter the Uk on ID cards .Since last october I think?

Just had a thought - how long can EU members stay in the UK on holiday?

They can stay the same amount of time as I can , a UK national permanentally resident in another EU state, 6 months. But ,Like me they can leave on a ferry & return on the next for another 6 months. Unfortunately any type of vehicle cannot do the same & has to be out for the following 6 months.
& before you ask why we can leave & return continually it is as it was before brexit when the UK was in the EU & is the same as we had before brexit when we could do 89 consecutive days in an EU country, pop next door , return for another 89 . & the reason is the UK did not wish to talk/negotiate on any of it so it remained the same except for UK citizens only being allowed 90 in 180 in total eu

 

[EuroTrotters]

Yes. Bumped into some German motorhomers in Dover in the summer. They drove all the way from Germany to Calais to board the ferry to England and were somewhat surprised when they weren't allowed through border control. They had to go back home and collect their passports.

Just had a thought - how long can EU members stay in the UK on holiday?

6 months

 

[Raul]

Gus, I thought as long as you still have your UK citizenship, you can stay in UK as long as you like from UK point of view. Whether you loose your recidency rights on the other side after a pre determined time being out, it’s another matter. Is that right?

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[nicholsong]

You are.
EU citizens & UK permanent residants of an EU state holding ID cards under withdrawal act can travel the EU on them with no requirement for a passport. All the info that is on a UK passport,+ more, is on the ID card.

Richard you particularly mention ID cards issued under the Withdrawal Agreement(WA), which mine was. Jan, the lady I quoted is not on here (but on the other MHF i.e MHFacts - confusing). Maybe she did not reapply for a new card, a move which I think you promoted for Brits in Spain, or she is working on the old rules.

Do you have a reference to support the use only of the ID within EU? as I am sure it is in my paperwork but that is stacked up while we revamp one room. Also is there a reference to re-entering Schengen on only a EU ID without passport - have you done this?

They can stay the same amount of time as I can , a UK national permanentally resident in another EU state, 6 months. But ,Like me they can leave on a ferry & return on the next for another 6 months. Unfortunately any type of vehicle cannot do the same & has to be out for the following 6 months.
& before you ask why we can leave & return continually it is as it was before brexit when the UK was in the EU & is the same as we had before brexit when we could do 89 consecutive days in an EU country, pop next door , return for another 89 . & the reason is the UK did not wish to talk/negotiate on any of it so it remained the same except for UK citizens only being allowed 90 in 180 in total eu

I am of the same opinion as Raul above, that a British National can come and go into the UK at will with no time limit. Presenting a British passport helps, but at one time, and maybe still is, it was sufficient to convince the Immigration Officer that one held British Nationality, as was the presentation of a UK Commercial Pilot's Licence which had that privilege written in, now gone.

 

[varaizian]

Yes. Bumped into some German motorhomers in Dover in the summer. They drove all the way from Germany to Calais to board the ferry to England and were somewhat surprised when they weren't allowed through border control. They had to go back home and collect their passports.

Just had a thought - how long can EU members stay in the UK on holiday?

6 months I think. Like a lot of things the EU offered to negotiate sticking points but the UK government wanted to get it done (remember the phrase?) ASAP and could not bother to look at all the little things like musicians visas, pet passports and educational schemes like Eurasmas. They assumed that they could blag it all afterwards. I suspect they also had an eye on seasonal workers for crops etc. A common mistake is to think that the EU and Schengen are interchangeable. The UK was in the EU but not in Schengen. Also worth recalling that the UK was in the EU and agreed to all these rules being passed; including those like the ones that have ruined the UK shellfish industry since we left. I'm biased but trying to respect Jim's request that we keep this space clear of politics so will say no more except to express my bafflement at where the OP must have been for the past 6 years not to know all this.

 

[gus-lopez]

Gus, I thought as long as you still have your UK citizenship, you can stay in UK as long as you like from UK point of view. Whether you loose your recidency rights on the other side after a pre determined time being out, it’s another matter. Is that right?

No, as a permanent resident in the EU ,albeit still with UK citizenship , we are classed the same as an EU citizen. If I do not leave after 6 months for 1 day & then return I would automatically become a Uk resident again.
In all honesty since brexit it doesn't really matter as becoming a Uk resident again is nothing to be concerned about only where it would apply to my foreign vehicle.
As far as Spain is concerned I can be out of the country for up to 5 years continuously, & as long as i set foot in spain on the next day i would retain my spanish residency. It cannot be removed in any way except by being out of the country continuously for over 5 years. ( It was increased from 2 years under the WA : Why ,I have no idea? )

I am of the same opinion as @Raul above, that a British National can come and go into the UK at will with no time limit.

No, on 2 occasions whilst entering at Dover i have been told/reminded that i have 6 months before leaving or I become resident again, not a problem,but it would be for the vehicle i was in.

I entered france ,at Dover, on the TIE as soon as i showed it he wasn't interested in looking at anything .

 

[varaizian]

Do you have a reference to support the use only of the ID within EU? as I am sure it is in my paperwork but that is stacked up while we revamp one room. Also is there a reference to re-entering Schengen on only a EU ID without passport - have you done this?


I am of the same opinion as Raul above, that a British National can come and go into the UK at will with no time limit. Presenting a British passport helps, but at one time, and maybe still is, it was sufficient to convince the Immigration Officer that one held British Nationality, as was the presentation of a UK Commercial Pilot's Licence which had that privilege written in, now gone.

I think your continued residency in France, for example, relies upon your satisfying their rules (residence generally more than 6 months per year) and making your global return of income to the French authorities.

 

[nicholsong]

No, as a permanent resident in the EU ,albeit still with UK citizenship , we are classed the same as an EU citizen. If I do not leave after 6 months for 1 day & then return I would automatically become a Uk resident again.
In all honesty since brexit it doesn't really matter as becoming a Uk resident again is nothing to be concerned about only where it would apply to my foreign vehicle.
As far as Spain is concerned I can be out of the country for up to 5 years continuously, & as long as i set foot in spain on the next day i would retain my spanish residency. It cannot be removed in any way except by being out of the country continuously for over 5 years. ( It was increased from 2 years under the WA : Why ,I have no idea? )



No, on 2 occasions whilst entering at Dover i have been told/reminded that i have 6 months before leaving or I become resident again, not a problem,but it would be for the vehicle i was in.

I entered france ,at Dover, on the TIE as soon as i showed it he wasn't interested in looking at anything .

Richard

We are agreed that you personally are free to come and go in/out of UK. I thought UK Resident might affect your tax status, but I now understand that it is the vehicle. In my case the MH would be no impediment as it was previously on the DVLA register and could be reverted - presumably yours was not.

Thanks for confirming that you entered Schengen on your identity card(TIE)

Geoff

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[VXman]

yes EU citizens can no longer enter the Uk on ID cards .Since last october I think?

So we (UK citizens) were allowed to enter EU previously (since being an EU member) with just ID - no need for passport? And EU citizens to UK?

 

[2x2camper]

So we (UK citizens) were allowed to enter EU previously (since being an EU member) with just ID - no need for passport? And EU citizens to UK?

Yes but the UK does not have ID cards, only passports.

 

[jumartoo]

EU citizens to the UK were allowed to use their ID cards (their official proof of identity). They now have to get a passport.

 

[Ingwe]

In essence, Schengen requires freedom of movement within its borders. The UK didn’t want this. One of the main reasons for Brexit. Control of borders.

Strictly, it is the EU that requires free movement within its borders. It is possible to be in the EU and not be in Schengen. When we were in the EU we were not in Schengen. Similarly, Ireland is in the EU but not in Schengen. So you can go to Ireland for periods longer than 90 days. Sorry for my imprecision.

 

[steve69]

In essence, Schengen requires freedom of movement within its borders. The UK didn’t want this. One of the main reasons for Brexit. Control of borders.

Fat lot of good that did!
While on the subject, do we still need to have the passport stamped now that the border system is now fully electronic? Don't they just swipe your passport on their machine and know the exact time & date you entered?

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[VXman]

Yes but the UK does not have ID cards, only passports.

Ah, right. So we HAD to take our passports. A driving license wouldn't have sufficed? If you had to take 'official' ID then it's virtually the same as having a passport.

 

[MichaelT]

Yes. Bumped into some German motorhomers in Dover in the summer. They drove all the way from Germany to Calais to board the ferry to England and were somewhat surprised when they weren't allowed through border control. They had to go back home and collect their passports.

Just had a thought - how long can EU members stay in the UK on holiday?

Even before Brexit they always needed a passport, same as we did to go to EU?

 

[EuroTrotters]

Fat lot of good that did!
While on the subject, do we still need to have the passport stamped now that the border system is now fully electronic? Don't they just swipe your passport on their machine and know the exact time & date you entered?

Didn’t swipe my passport at Alicante in September. Just stamps

 

[Raul]

Stamp is king at the moment.

 

[busby]

Yo having us on we seen him preform in February this year in the Rock and Roll House in Benidorm

Must have been on a zimmer frame,,BUSBY

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[busby]

Yes. Bumped into some German motorhomers in Dover in the summer. They drove all the way from Germany to Calais to board the ferry to England and were somewhat surprised when they weren't allowed through border control. They had to go back home and collect their passports.

Just had a thought - how long can EU members stay in the UK on holiday?

180 days I think..BUSBY.

 

[VXman]

180 days I think..BUSBY.

Would seem fair but others above have said its 6 months. ????

 

[Dutch 68]

As far as I am aware EU citizens can travel without a passport. Why would they need one? There are no border controls. I've not been asked for a passport in years of travelling (before and since Brexit) once through UK/France border controls'. I guess some form of ID would be sensible just in case.

There are countries in the EU where you have to carry your passport at all times, so even if you go to the shops, if stopped by police at any given time you are legally obliged to present your passport when asked for it

 

[jumartoo]

Even before Brexit they always needed a passport, same as we did to go to EU?

No. Their ID card was sufficient.

 

[bigtwin]

Would seem fair but others above have said its 6 months. ????

What’s a few days between friends eh?

Ian

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[orridge]

Even before Brexit they always needed a passport, same as we did to go to EU?

No they didn't up until Oct 2021 ID cards from countries like France were accepted as travel documents but no longer, as the UK does not have ID cards we always required a passport to travel to Europe (Ireland excluded).

This is why the market for European school kids visiting England has been decimated as only 15% of students have passports

Press releases

www.englishuk.com

 

[nicholsong]

I have been trawling the internet to find the official answer to this question.

I am a UK 'National', a UK Citizen and a Polish Resident.

My question is with that status If I leave Schengen can I re-enter only on my ID card?

All the answers on the internet refer to either EU Nationals or EU Citizens re-entering, but I can find nothing about Residents like me who are neither.

gus-lopez has said that he has done it, but also said the officer did not take much interest and waved him through.

I would like to know where I stand and be able to quote chapter and verse should an immigration officer refuse to accept my Polish ID to re-enter Schengen via France, for example.

To do so would avoid any complications about what happens if one has a Schengen entry stamp in a passport and one leaves again way beyond the 90/180 day limitation, without having to prove that I was only in Schengen countries other than Poland for 90/180 days, and was in Poland for the indefinite period that I am allowed.

Or would they accept my word that the time beyond 90 days was spent in Poland - I do not want to rely on that, better to not risk presenting the passport and getting it stamped when not needed.

 

[gus-lopez]

So we (UK citizens) were allowed to enter EU previously (since being an EU member) with just ID - no need for passport? And EU citizens to UK?

as said, no as Uk citizens had no ID cards they required passports. EU cits travelled on ID only & whilst Uk citizens were trying to make the eye scanners work all those travelling on ID cards had left the airport & reached there destinations usually before the Uk peasant had exited the airport.

Even before Brexit they always needed a passport, same as we did to go to EU?

As above, no.

This is why the market for European school kids visiting England has been decimated as only 15% of students have passports

True but here in my region of spain a new ID card is 12€ whereas the spanish national can obtain a passport for just over 20€ from the same national police office & it used to be apply Monday & collect Thursday? & identical papssport with rfid etc; as the UK as they were all standardised.

 

[cyberyacht]

Wish we could get a passport in under a week for €20 or even £20.

 

[busby]

Would seem fair but others above have said its 6 months. ????

Think 180 days is virtually 6 months,,BUSBY.

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[PaulOH]

I think this is partially a cultural issue about the 'requirement' to have ID and to be able to identify yourself.

Because the UK and Ireland don't use a national identity card system, said citizens are used to being able to use all manner of methods to identify themselves. A driving licence is the normal method, but not everyone has one of those. I think I'm right that (in the past at least) people carrying a library card as ID were allowed to vote? Don't know if that's true anymore.

Our dear continental friends are slightly more excited about ID - as a teacher in an English academy, I have received notes from parents to explain why homework was not done with the Spanish DNI number added - just to be sure! Having had a scary conversation in a bar one night just after arriving here, I took to carrying my passport around with me for fear that the Mossos D'Esquadra would fling me in the clink for failing to be able to suitably identify myself - driving licence not accepted!! I ended up losing both my passport and driving licence while trying to manage overstuffed pockets during hectic Xmas shopping.

Hotels often won't accept driving licences as acceptable ID on registration and the passport is the only alternative. I gave a Barcelona receptionist a surprise the last time using my Irish passport to register and speaking Catalan to her - it was a 'does not compute' moment!

Regarding the Shenghen rules, I think that if you have more than one passport and can manipulate any restrictions by using different combinations and presentation, I think it's your right and entitlement so go for it provided that it doesn't cause problems down the line.

I think the rule of thumb is to investigate all avenues of your passport availability and get them sorted - it just makes things easier, even if it is rather expensive & takes a long time for UK&Ireland