Sat TV to have or not to have.

[Hymerboy]

I have an Oyster ll satelite system, I know it's old but to upgrade to Oyster V is circa £3-4k, should I spend that sort of money to upgrade or scrap the whole thing and buy a smart TV system ?

 

[JockandRita]

Or more Solar! It’s the future!

Do they do solar skylights then?

Jock.

 

[jezport]

We now have a 13" tablet that we can watch anywhere in and out of the van, far better for us. Always updatable.

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

Similar to others, we have satellite tv (moved across multiple vans) but mostly use Firestick streaming via mifi or terrestrial tv broadcast. If we are in a poor data or terrestrial tv reception area (or on the continent), we then have satellite tv as a contingent option.

However, if I was buying a new to me van for the first time tomorrow, I likely would not invest in a new satellite tv system (£2k-3k buys a lot of data for streaming). Even Sky now appear to be (slowly) moving away from satellite as their primary broadcasting platform.

 

[pyro]

Although I personally strongly agree with Jock JockandRita, and would be incredibly hesitant to spend (apparently) £3k on a new dish system nowadays (and would far prefer a proper maritime one anyway), it is only a very short matter of time before broadcasters block anyone using conventional VPNs for streaming. Some VPNs are already blocked.

I don't normally comment professionally (I am - or rather, was - a copyright and patent lawyer), but I hate to see a distortion of the fact or worried fellow humans as much as I hate to see an arrogant fool get his come uppance. Don't blindly believe the MAG, firestick, or VPN salesmen, for they'e only in it for the money. Satellite TV is fairly obsolete, but it is legal.

As I said, a fair number are already causing hassle, and to get round that many vpn operators use Cloudflare/Chinese or similar to overcome detection by obfuscating IP addresses through use of a UK local cloud - contrary to Cloudlare's terms and conditions. Google have well and truly sussed that one out, just wait for the broadasters to follow, they won't be far behind, and your money's gone.

There may be an illegal system being trialled by some radio amateurs that I've "heard of", rotating IP proxy addresses sent via a small API (software) to foil broadcasters, but AFAIK it only works in Spain and Portugal so far, and apart from illegality and limited availabilty in these countries, it is very hit or miss.

No simple future-proof undetectable solution, yet. And commercial operators are now facing ten years in prison. I represent one such client, but everyone is now becoming very jumpy. Another (former and well known) VPN client is still taking money, but planning to shut down in a few weeks

I have a client's consent to circulate the police threatening him (redacted), which is now being sent out to hundreds of others. The Americans are also doing the same, The client couldn't give a to55, as he's Argentian beyond their jusdiction and doen't want to fight it - it only costs a fortune in legal fees, but it's already lost one popular streaming service, and plenty more will follow.

In the UK, best to use a smart TV or firestick. If UK television means that much, then you're better off staying home or picking up a book.

​

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[JockandRita]

Although I personally strongly agree with Jock JockandRita, and would be incredibly hesitant to spend (apparently) £3k on a new dish system nowadays (and would far prefer a proper maritime one anyway), it is only a very short matter of time before broadcasters block anyone using conventional VPNs for streaming. Some VPNs are already blocked.

I don't normally comment professionally (I am - or rather, was - a copyright and patent lawyer), but I hate to see a distortion of the fact or worried fellow humans as much as I hate to see an arrogant fool get his come uppance. Don't blindly believe the MAG, firestick, or VPN salesmen, for they'e only in it for the money. Satellite TV is fairly obsolete, but it is legal.

As I said, a fair number are already causing hassle, and to get round that many vpn operators use Cloudflare/Chinese or similar to overcome detection by obfuscating IP addresses through use of a UK local cloud - contrary to Cloudlare's terms and conditions. Google have well and truly sussed that one out, just wait for the broadasters to follow, they won't be far behind, and your money's gone.

There may be an illegal system being trialled by some radio amateurs that I've "heard of", rotating IP proxy addresses sent via a small API (software) to foil broadcasters, but AFAIK it only works in Spain and Portugal so far, and apart from illegality and limited availabilty in these countries, it is very hit or miss.

No simple future-proof undetectable solution, yet. And commercial operators are now facing ten years in prison. I represent one such client, but everyone is now becoming very jumpy. Another (former and well known) VPN client is still taking money, but planning to shut down in a few weeks

I have a client's consent to circulate the police threatening him (redacted), which is now being sent out to hundreds of others. The Americans are also doing the same, The client couldn't give a to55, as he's Argentian beyond their jusdiction and doen't want to fight it - it only costs a fortune in legal fees, but it's already lost one popular streaming service, and plenty more will follow.

In the UK, best to use a smart TV or firestick. If UK television means that much, then you're better off staying home or picking up a book.

​

Very informative thanks Nick. Much appreciated.

If the BBC honoured my rights as a licence fee paying citizen, by allowing me, (and all other eligible licence payers), access to UK terrestrial TV, I wouldn't require the need for a VPN.
It's not rocket science to allow access via a pin number, followed by a verification coded text message, but no, they've decided to take the easy route by blocking everyone outside the tiny Astra 2 footprint, and not recognise a non UK WiFi connection, even with the correct login details.
It makes me want to cancel my direct debit to TV Licensing.


Rant over,

Jock.

 

[Bessy765]

We have an Oyster V 3 with auto skew, get all channels down till halfway across France then start to lose a few, when near Carcassone use Intelsat 907. Have still managed to get some Astra 2 channels even when in Portugal. If not we have a firestick. And use a UK sim £25 for 100 gb so can watch all uk channels and catch up

 

[pyro]

Very informative thanks Nick. Much appreciated.

If the BBC honoured my rights as a licence fee paying citizen, by allowing me, (and all other eligible licence payers), access to UK terrestrial TV, I wouldn't require the need for a VPN.
It's not rocket science to allow access via a pin number, followed by a verification coded text message, but no, they've decided to take the easy route by blocking everyone outside the tiny Astra 2 footprint, and not recognise a non UK WiFi connection, even with the correct login details.
It makes me want to cancel my direct debit to TV Licensing.


Rant over,

Jock.

Totally agreed.

Apparently it's because the BBC and ITV (and Sky, etc) get reduced fees from the US producers if only showing to a domestic audience, rather than an international one. The introduction of licence number is certainly not rocket science.

It''s bloody stupid, and the next generation of LNBs will probably make streaming redundant. Or, as is most likely, Oneweb stellites will all use cloud IP addresses, making it possible to use firetick/vpn combinations possible again.

That's if the Chinese or radio hams don't work out a better system

edit; seems that some advice fell on stony ground, I guess I'll just have topractice my laugh at them, and say I told you so

 

[Ditcha]

I bit the bullet and bought the oyster command box last year which was under 400€ now works from app on phone updates automatically and works great in Spain, simple swop out with the old box.
Sold my old box on eBay for £250 so not a bad upgrade.

Command Unit | e-Shop ten-Haaft​

control box for Oyster IV incl. wiFi-antenna A detailed description can be found under https://download.ten-haaft.com/DE_Umruestung.pdf

shop.ten-haaft.com

 

[Hymerboy]

We have an Oyster 1 system, which has been upgraded by Jacksons Leisure, and works a treat via Buttons A & B. It has 2 x LNBs, one which tunes in to Astra 1, (button A), and once locked on to that I press button B, powering the second LNB, which is tuned into Astra 2. I get all the FTA TV and Radio programmes I need.

Yes, I do have a Firestick and mobile internet, but whilst the dish remains trusty and serviceable, it's staying put.

HTH,

Jock.

Can I ask how much the upgrade costs please

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[Hymerboy]

You use Firestick when you haven't got a smart TV.
It's a Android device that plugs into the HDMI port d connects to your wifi and it comes with most of the TV apps already loaded and you can add more.

Just to be clear mine is just a monitor for the sat system so no hdmi port, I am wondering if I could buy a tv and use it as both a monitor and/or a tv.

 

[Carpmart]

It’s not all doom and gloom. I believe as the detection of fraudulent or copyright breach increases the availability of multi factor authentication will increase to allow you to consume content wherever you are, as they will know you’re a bona fide user.

The two will naturally go hand in hand as they need consumers to consume the content so they can monetise that contents value.

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

Is there not the potential issue of different broadcasters owning the rights to content depending on the geographical market? If so, would that not inhibit user rights to certain content when crossing regional borders?

 

[Carpmart]

Is there not the potential issue of different broadcasters owning the rights to content depending on the geographical market? If so, would that not inhibit user rights to certain content when crossing regional borders?

Erm yes… in that case, we are all doomed!

 

[pyro]

It’s not all doom and gloom. I believe as the detection of fraudulent or copyright breach increases the availability of multi factor authentication will increase to allow you to consume content wherever you are, as they will know you’re a bona fide user.

The two will naturally go hand in hand as they need consumers to consume the content so they can monetise that contents value

Only the BBC offer an ad free experience in return for an enforced fee, which in itself has an extremely limited shelf life. Advertising and licensing make up the net profit

They already have a substantial consumer market back in their home country, just that geograpically controlled marketing allows them to maximise market opportunity to suit the demands of each territory (eg ads, interests, etc) than pander to a small more mobile market. And keep the content cost low.

Even the British people in Spain Broken Link Removed aren't that interested in the price of teabags in Sainsburies, but the 26 million back in the UK are interested in the pomp surrounding the Queen's funeral.

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[JockandRita]

Can I ask how much the upgrade costs please

Sorry, but I genuinely can't answer that question, as I inherited the system.
Speaking with the chap on the Jacksons Leisure stand at a Peterborough Show, who claims to have come up with that upgrade, I got the impression that compared to a new system, it was an extremely favourable alternative.

Maybe funflair Martin can elaborate on the system a bit more for me/you.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Abgs]

We've recently been in Morocco for a couple of weeks. Had plenty of data allowance across various SIM cards for the UK and EU transit stages so used the firestick for UK TV.

We bought Pay as Go Maroc sims but not really enough GB to stream a decent amount of TV, so we went old school.... and took a DVD box set with us! We re-watched Northern Exposure from the early 90's. Was rather a good way to do it really as we were detached from day to day 'normal' UK TV so it kind of made it feel more of a holiday.

We did watch a bit of Spanish TV via the normal aerial, particularly like 'Aquí la Tierra' on TVE1 - this is a really good insight to Spanish life, culture and the country-side. Makes you note down loads of places to visit in Spain.

 

[funflair]

Sorry, but I genuinely can't answer that question, as I inherited the system.
Speaking with the chap on the Jacksons Leisure stand at a Peterborough Show, who claims to have come up with that upgrade, I got the impression that compared to a new system, it was an extremely favourable alternative.

Maybe funflair Martin can elaborate on the system a bit more for me/you.

Cheers,

Jock.

You are right Jock, and it’s only my memory that stops me coming up with the exact answer but £350 springs to mind it was about 10 years ago though.

 

[MichaelT]

scrap the whole thing and buy a smart TV system ?

No good on the site we are on no phone signal!

 

[headlight]

I use the Status aerial to give me Freeview.
At home I pay for Sky Sports via Now TV, BT Sport, Amazon Prime etc.
I have downloaded the various apps onto a Fire Stick and use my mobile phone with unlimited data as a WiFi hotspot.
So far it has worked perfectly everywhere we have been in the UK.

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[JockandRita]

You are right Jock, and it’s only my memory that stops me coming up with the exact answer but £350 springs to mind it was about 10 years ago though.

Still doing the business though Martin................for now at least, and while Astra 1 keeps sending out the correct signal.

If I had auto skew on the LNBs, I could have got that Intelsat 907 when down in Spain.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[VXman]

Although I personally strongly agree with Jock JockandRita, and would be incredibly hesitant to spend (apparently) £3k on a new dish system nowadays (and would far prefer a proper maritime one anyway), it is only a very short matter of time before broadcasters block anyone using conventional VPNs for streaming. Some VPNs are already blocked.

I don't normally comment professionally (I am - or rather, was - a copyright and patent lawyer), but I hate to see a distortion of the fact or worried fellow humans as much as I hate to see an arrogant fool get his come uppance. Don't blindly believe the MAG, firestick, or VPN salesmen, for they'e only in it for the money. Satellite TV is fairly obsolete, but it is legal.

As I said, a fair number are already causing hassle, and to get round that many vpn operators use Cloudflare/Chinese or similar to overcome detection by obfuscating IP addresses through use of a UK local cloud - contrary to Cloudlare's terms and conditions. Google have well and truly sussed that one out, just wait for the broadasters to follow, they won't be far behind, and your money's gone.

There may be an illegal system being trialled by some radio amateurs that I've "heard of", rotating IP proxy addresses sent via a small API (software) to foil broadcasters, but AFAIK it only works in Spain and Portugal so far, and apart from illegality and limited availabilty in these countries, it is very hit or miss.

No simple future-proof undetectable solution, yet. And commercial operators are now facing ten years in prison. I represent one such client, but everyone is now becoming very jumpy. Another (former and well known) VPN client is still taking money, but planning to shut down in a few weeks

I have a client's consent to circulate the police threatening him (redacted), which is now being sent out to hundreds of others. The Americans are also doing the same, The client couldn't give a to55, as he's Argentian beyond their jusdiction and doen't want to fight it - it only costs a fortune in legal fees, but it's already lost one popular streaming service, and plenty more will follow.

In the UK, best to use a smart TV or firestick. If UK television means that much, then you're better off staying home or picking up a book.

​

That was a very long answer to a question that wasn't asked. I used a VPN for TV when I was living in Hong Kong for 3 years. I would have been happy to pay for a legal way to watch some British TV but it didn't exist.

The VPN's I used (Nord and Express) had lots of servers in the UK so if your channel of choice didn't work on one you just move to another. The BBC were the only channel that did block fairly regularly but both VPN providers were good at relocating to allow access fairly quickly.

I don't really see this changing in the near future. I think the numbers of people using VPN's to watch TV from foreign locations is pretty small in the overall scheme of things.

 

[pyro]

That was a very long answer to a question that wasn't asked. I used a VPN for TV when I was living in Hong Kong for 3 years. I would have been happy to pay for a legal way to watch some British TV but it didn't exist.

The VPN's I used (Nord and Express) had lots of servers in the UK so if your channel of choice didn't work on one you just move to another. The BBC were the only channel that did block fairly regularly but both VPN providers were good at relocating to allow access fairly quickly.

I don't really see this changing in the near future. I think the numbers of people using VPN's to watch TV from foreign locations is pretty small in the overall scheme of things.

They said the same about Napster, Audioglalaxy, the Pirate Bay. The difference is, you pay to use a service that is at very high risk of imminent closure. I don't make the law, it is just my job to know it.

I certainly wasn't "answering" you, there'a a distinction between answering and educating. I was making you aware of the risks, which many have regretted dimissing. You can run on pink diesel if you want, the risk of getting caught are tiny, but are they really worth it?

I don't care either way, but as it is illegal please don't drag MHF into facilitating/exposing an imprisonable act. Copyright. Designs and Patents Act S296ZB and the police letter provided refers.

Only so much free legal advice available

 

[VXman]

I certainly wasn't "answering" you, there'a a distinction between answering and educating. I was making you aware of the risks, which many have regretted dimissing. You can run on pink diesel if you want, the risk of getting caught are tiny, but are they really worth it?

No, perhaps a lecturing is a better description. Either way not required and not appreciated.

 

[pyro]

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[stuartholmes]

Although I personally strongly agree with Jock JockandRita, and would be incredibly hesitant to spend (apparently) £3k on a new dish system nowadays (and would far prefer a proper maritime one anyway), it is only a very short matter of time before broadcasters block anyone using conventional VPNs for streaming. Some VPNs are already blocked.

I don't normally comment professionally (I am - or rather, was - a copyright and patent lawyer), but I hate to see a distortion of the fact or worried fellow humans as much as I hate to see an arrogant fool get his come uppance. Don't blindly believe the MAG, firestick, or VPN salesmen, for they'e only in it for the money. Satellite TV is fairly obsolete, but it is legal.

As I said, a fair number are already causing hassle, and to get round that many vpn operators use Cloudflare/Chinese or similar to overcome detection by obfuscating IP addresses through use of a UK local cloud - contrary to Cloudlare's terms and conditions. Google have well and truly sussed that one out, just wait for the broadasters to follow, they won't be far behind, and your money's gone.

There may be an illegal system being trialled by some radio amateurs that I've "heard of", rotating IP proxy addresses sent via a small API (software) to foil broadcasters, but AFAIK it only works in Spain and Portugal so far, and apart from illegality and limited availabilty in these countries, it is very hit or miss.

No simple future-proof undetectable solution, yet. And commercial operators are now facing ten years in prison. I represent one such client, but everyone is now becoming very jumpy. Another (former and well known) VPN client is still taking money, but planning to shut down in a few weeks

I have a client's consent to circulate the police threatening him (redacted), which is now being sent out to hundreds of others. The Americans are also doing the same, The client couldn't give a to55, as he's Argentian beyond their jusdiction and doen't want to fight it - it only costs a fortune in legal fees, but it's already lost one popular streaming service, and plenty more will follow.

In the UK, best to use a smart TV or firestick. If UK television means that much, then you're better off staying home or picking up a book.

​

I love it. Stay at home or pick up a book - or take some box sets on dvd, or talk to someone, or learn the local language, or take up the violin....

 

[JockandRita]

No, perhaps a lecturing is a better description. Either way not required and not appreciated.

To be perfectly honest with you, I was more informed and made aware by pyro's post, for which I am pleased to have read.
I didn't see it as lecturing, but more for what it was, ie, making us all more aware as to the possible consequences of the choices we make to fool the broadcasters. It's certainly info I was completely unaware of previously.

Please don't get me wrong, ie, as a licence payer, if I can get round the BBC's draconian restrictions via a VPN or tuning in to Intelsat 907, or some other "by hook and by crook" pirating method, then I will do.....................but I shouldn't have to, having already paid up front by way of the licence fee.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

In my total ignorance, I would have guessed the authorities to be more interested in the various IPTV platforms which pop up to illegally stream copyrighted content than pursuing pure VPN apps which spoof IP address, geolocation and provide encryption services etc. My naive thinking being that you can use a VPN quite legally, meaning if you choose to employ a VPN to access content in a manner which breaches copyright (e.g. out of region), the of legality doing so is with the user as opposed to the VPN app vendor.
Shows that I know bugger all about such things.

 

[pyro]

There is a big difference Daz, between prosecution of a few and risk of losing money and service to thousands

The law as mentioned above prohibits "any service marketed to circumvent", and therefore are (or were) a few (maybe a dozen) web platforms that merely streamed content from IP services or off-air, so the police have concenrated on those. I know, because to my shame I made a modest living as a lawyer working for the broadcasters, chasing and prosecuting other big name broadcasters who streamed our content as if it were the own. As well as negotiating licensing deals.

VPN operators are relatvely easier targets, the broadcasters just limit the number of IP addresses accessing their streams, then block any groups- it's not just a matter of geoblocking using MaxMind nowadays. These users merely get ripped off by buying pretty useless vpn's, as opposed to risking prosecution. Different thing entirely, and they account for a fairly large slice of money spent.

Kodi apparently uses P2P to distribute, so it's as risky as say Napster or any BitTorrent client, so I gather. So satellite (which is multcast by nature) seems the safest solution for now.

I agree wholeheatedly with the sentiment of watching TV from home, but just hate the idea of seeing a good service for a minority shut down or see others ripped off by dodgy vpns. Most of them are run by barrow boys.

As long as people make an infomed decision, I don't mind.

 

[Peter and Julie]

We use a mix of both satellite and IPTV. Sat for background UK TV and IPTV for the wenches UK soap fix! This is just north of Bordeaux. Maxview dome (small) still picks up UK TV though until the trees grow and fill out.
No VPN on firestick and still get UK TV with a French sim plan..

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[pyro]

Funnily enough, the daughter still gets access to all services in Portugal via a VPN operated by Orange (EE?) on her buiness SIM

People with sat should look at the newer super low noise LNBs. I also think Oneweb LEOs will wipe the board, they use vpn access as they are orbiting apparently.