Remap or not - pre adblue euro 6 Fiat

Folkranger

Folkranger

Joined
May 2, 2014
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MH
Hymer B 584DL
Exp
17 years + 35 tugging
Mine is a 2017 150bhp 2.3
Quite a few people with these, both on this site and elsewhere, find them either underpowered or too high geared. Mine certainly is compared to my previous 2014 150bhp Ducato which flew along motorways without the need to change down on hills.

Has anybody any experience or knowledge of remapping these particular engines? There are many companies listing them and showing expected performance figures.
 
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Pausim said:
What is the problem with changing down to 4th gear? If you have dropped below the optimum point on the power curve surely that is the most efficient thing to do. An empty van might not need to change down but we are driving heavily loaded motor homes.
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What is wrong is that you shouldn't have to be changing down so regularly. In my situation I would expect that as in my last van I could do most motorway driving without hardly ever changing down.
 
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Jackd said:
Approximately 2000, but will report back tomorrow with the exact rpm.
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Approximate figures for top gear in my van.
50mph (gps) 1600rpm
60mph (gps) 1900rpm
70mph (gps) 2200rpm

From memory top gear in my previous van at 65 to 70 (60 to 65gps) gave somewhere over 2500 rpm. I only remember because ì often used the tachometer to indicate if I was in top or 4th gear.

Tyre diameter could account for some but not all of the difference.
 
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Lenny HB said:
We went from a 2014, 150 to a 2017, 150.
It did seem a bit sluggish at first but once I'd done over 10k it loosened up. It's OK on hills providing you remember to press the up button. Also we are pulling around 700kg more than we were with the 2014 van.

That's exactly what we did last year. 2014, 150 to a 2017, 150 (both manual)
Ours is on 9800 miles now so I can expect an uplift in performance after our next outing. I wish!
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Guigsy said:
I did the same in the previous van. It did make a difference. But some of that was down to the tyre circumference being bigger. At an indicated 70mph I was actually doing ~67mph instead of about ~64mph before.
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Not sure on tyre circumferences but 15 to 16 wheels is a 14% uplift versus your 5% change in mph.
 
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Steve and Denise said:
What RPM @ 60 mph ?
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As promised 100kmh = 62mph

Please excuse the dust, it’s been a long 3 weeks. 😁😁😁

66DE138F-8C4B-48EA-883E-0D8FB2B7A290.jpeg
 
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Folkranger said:
Approximate figures for top gear in my van.
50mph (gps) 1600rpm
60mph (gps) 1900rpm
70mph (gps) 2200rpm

From memory top gear in my previous van at 65 to 70 (60 to 65gps) gave somewhere over 2500 rpm. I only remember because ì often used the tachometer to indicate if I was in top or 4th gear.

Tyre diameter could account for some but not all of the difference.
Click to expand...
Do I take it that your not on a Ducato chassis then, as that’s a fair difference to mine?
 
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Jackd said:
Do I take it that your not on a Ducato chassis then, as that’s a fair difference to mine?
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Alko chassis with 16" wheels Ducato base vehicle 2.3, 150 bhp.

What size wheels are you on?

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Last edited:
Upvote 0
Driving home today I checked my speed/RPM. In 6th gear at 60 MPH on the speedo 1800 RPM and at 60 MPH (true) on the GPS 1900 RPM. 16” wheels Al-Ko/Fiat 2.3, 150BHP.
 
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Pausim said:
Driving home today I checked my speed/RPM. In 6th gear at 60 MPH on the speedo 1800 RPM and at 60 MPH (true) on the GPS 1900 RPM. 16” wheels Al-Ko/Fiat 2.3, 150BHP.
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Sort of makes driving at 60 in 6th on a wing and a prayer judjing by torque chart then.
 
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Jackd said:
Yeah 16” rims & 75 profile tyres. 2.3 150 on 15 plate.
I wonder if ratios have changed from year to year? How strange. 🤔
Click to expand...

That makes my gearing 12% higher than yours in top. Add that difference to my previous one had 15" wheels and there could be something like 20% difference in top. That would explain why this model doesn't have enough umph in 6th to do motorways without constant gear changes.

Maybe a remap is the only way out of this after all.
 
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Folkranger said:
That makes my gearing 12% higher than yours in top. Add that difference to my previous one had 15" wheels and there could be something like 20% difference in top. That would explain why this model doesn't have enough umph in 6th to do motorways without constant gear changes.

Maybe a remap is the only way out of this after all.
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Or drive in a lower gear?

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Upvote 0
I tend to drive at the speed of the traffic. If its heavy traffic on a motorway with most people doing 60 or less than I'm on the inside lane doing the same as others. If the road is quiet (not often in the UK) then I coulld be cruising at 70 if I've a long journey to do.

Pausim suggests driving in a lower gear to save changing down. That seems wrong to me but it would be ok if it returned the same mpg. But would it?
 
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Folkranger said:
I tend to drive at the speed of the traffic. If its heavy traffic on a motorway with most people doing 60 or less than I'm on the inside lane doing the same as others. If the road is quiet (not often in the UK) then I coulld be cruising at 70 if I've a long journey to do.

Pausim suggests driving in a lower gear to save changing down. That seems wrong to me but it would be ok if it returned the same mpg. But would it?
Click to expand...
why would you ? Defeats the object of having 6 gears really if the answer is to drive in 5th everywhere 🤪
 
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Folkranger said:
Mine is a 2017 150bhp 2.3
Quite a few people with these, both on this site and elsewhere, find them either underpowered or too high geared. Mine certainly is compared to my previous 2014 150bhp Ducato which flew along motorways without the need to change down on hills.

Has anybody any experience or knowledge of remapping these particular engines? There are many companies listing them and showing expected performance figures.
Click to expand...
Had ours remapped now much more torque so very rarely have to change down on hills while cruising on motorways, increased acceleration and get extra 4mpg
 
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MartinandBev said:
blimey I wish I could get near 28mpg, we have a 2019 Euro 6 in our adria sonic and that averages 11l per 100km, which using Google translates to about 21mpg, ....
Click to expand...
You might be converting to mpg using US gallons instead of Imperial (UK) gallons. Your 11l/100km = 25.68mpg.
www.inchcalculator.com

Liters per 100 Kilometers to Miles per Gallon (UK) Conversion

Convert liters per 100 kilometers to miles per gallon (UK) (L/100km to mpg (UK)) with the fuel economy conversion calculator, and learn the formula.
www.inchcalculator.com www.inchcalculator.com

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MartinandBev said:
blimey I wish I could get near 28mpg, we have a 2019 Euro 6 in our adria sonic and that averages 11l per 100km, which using Google translates to about 21mpg, but the main point is that even when on a motorway crusing around 100-105 km/h I am always getting the change down notification flashing at me.

On The road trip we are on at the moment some of the hills through France and Italy have been very much down to 4th gear 🥴, so I was going to investigate about getting ours remapped when we get back to Spain.
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Google’s wrong - you’re getting 25.5 mpg 😉
 
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Folkranger said:
@Pausim suggests driving in a lower gear to save changing down. That seems wrong to me but it would be ok if it returned the same mpg. But would it?
Click to expand...
Some people are suggesting that their engines are revving too low in 6th gear but don’t like having to change down. Yes this suggestion does defeat the object of having 6 gears. I assume Fiat set the gear ratios to achieve better fuel consumption and emissions but it does mean that different gears are needed for different situations. Logic suggests that having 6 gears instead of 4 or 5 will involve more changes. Remapping may help and so does having an automatic gearbox.

Remapping is not something I would consider. It probably increases the NOx and particulate output to levels where they may stress other components e.g. the DPF. Some may not care about air pollution but I do. I am not telling anyone else what they should or should not do, I am just suggesting that there are arguments for and against. The debate has been going on in the truck world for a while and this article gives the pros and cons. The science will also apply to our van engines.

Aftermarket: engine tuning pro and con

Peter Shakespeare looks at the questionable practice of aftermarket truck engine re-mapping
www.transportengineer.org.uk
 
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Pausim said:
Some people are suggesting that their engines are revving too low in 6th gear but don’t like having to change down. Yes this suggestion does defeat the object of having 6 gears. I assume Fiat set the gear ratios to achieve better fuel consumption and emissions but it does mean that different gears are needed for different situations. Logic suggests that having 6 gears instead of 4 or 5 will involve more changes. Remapping may help and so does having an automatic gearbox.

Remapping is not something I would consider. It probably increases the NOx and particulate output to levels where they may stress other components e.g. the DPF. Some may not care about air pollution but I do. I am not telling anyone else what they should or should not do, I am just suggesting that there are arguments for and against. The debate has been going on in the truck world for a while and this article gives the pros and cons. The science will also apply to our van engines.

Aftermarket: engine tuning pro and con

Peter Shakespeare looks at the questionable practice of aftermarket truck engine re-mapping
www.transportengineer.org.uk
Click to expand...
But it's ok for manufacturers to offer vans at different rates of tune 130 / 180, or 125, 155 etc?? 🤔🤔🤔
 
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Jamesh said:
But it's ok for manufacturers to offer vans at different rates of tune 130 / 180, or 125, 155 etc?? 🤔🤔🤔
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Yes but they don’t achieve this by increasing the pollution levels, they have to pass the Euro 6 tests. They probably have different turbos for a start.

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Upvote 0
Pausim said:
Some people are suggesting that their engines are revving too low in 6th gear but don’t like having to change down. Yes this suggestion does defeat the object of having 6 gears. I assume Fiat set the gear ratios to achieve better fuel consumption and emissions but it does mean that different gears are needed for different situations. Logic suggests that having 6 gears instead of 4 or 5 will involve more changes. Remapping may help and so does having an automatic gearbox.

Remapping is not something I would consider. It probably increases the NOx and particulate output to levels where they may stress other components e.g. the DPF. Some may not care about air pollution but I do. I am not telling anyone else what they should or should not do, I am just suggesting that there are arguments for and against. The debate has been going on in the truck world for a while and this article gives the pros and cons. The science will also apply to our van engines.

Aftermarket: engine tuning pro and con

Peter Shakespeare looks at the questionable practice of aftermarket truck engine re-mapping
www.transportengineer.org.uk
Click to expand...
That artical is very interesting
 
Upvote 0
That's interesting, I always thought the turbo was different somehow. I've had my clutch replaced and timing belt done in last 12 months on my 2.3 130bhp.
I'm looking at the Celtic Tuning for remap to economy stage as I have to contend with the sharp hills up here in the Highlands and think it may help with my Hymer B544 (4250KG version).

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Pausim said:
Yes but they don’t achieve this by increasing the pollution levels, they have to pass the Euro 6 tests. They probably have different turbos for a start.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the MOT test find any infringement in polution levels?
 
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