refillable gas bottles used residual values

[Neil Bedwin]

All info on this page..... https://www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/dangerousgoods/tanks-pressure-receptacles.asp

 

[Lenny HB]

Not quite sure what you mean here fill side probably high pressure or bottle to regulator which would probably be low pressures or you pay your money and make a choice - mine are stainless reinforced anyway

Nothing to do with the fill side. With a bottle top regulator used to be low pressure. With a bulkhead regulator they are orange high pressure ones.
Sitting in a Hymer showroom at the moment looks like they use the orange high pressure ones on their bottle too regulators. Low pressure ones are black.

I think remember @dave newell lvs saying he had more problems with the stainless steel ones than the rubber. Also no anti-rupture valve on them, OK if you have bottles with built in anti rupture valves.

 

[mfw]

Nothing to do with the fill side. With a bottle top regulator used to be low pressure. With a bulkhead regulator they are orange high pressure ones.
Sitting in a Hymer showroom at the moment looks like they use the orange high pressure ones on their bottle too regulators. Low pressure ones are black.

I think remember @dave newell lvs saying he had more problems with the stainless steel ones than the rubber. Also no anti-rupture valve on them, OK if you have bottles with built in anti rupture valves.

Ok Lenny straight from gaslow website hp hose replacement

The Gaslow High Pressure Rubber Hose Assemblies are available in a range of lengths.
They are independently tested and approved with an extractability rating of just 2%.
However, to avoid regulator failure through oily plasticiser contamination, we recommend the use of the Gaslow Stainless Steel Hoses.
Rubber hoses should be checked regularly and replaced after 4/5 years
They fit onto the inlet of all 30mbar caravan regulators and Gaslow Changeover Systems using the W20 connection.
The hose has a 21.8LH connection to allow connection to the following:
- 4.5kg Butane
- Refillable
- French screw-on cylinders
- All Gaslow Adapters for many other cylinders

 

[MisterB]

I asked gaslow last year re the test process, they (apparently) haven't determined how to logistically do it but they did say it would involve the exchange of your bottle for a 'tested' one and they would sort out testing the old ones and then they will be the bottles used to replace ones coming in for retest. They also said it will be on a like for like basis, ie a 15 year bottle will be replaced with a 'tested' 15 year bottle.

the reality is that they prob just buy bottles and fitments in, that doesn't make them experts in the field, but you would think that they would have thought out a process by now ! I doubt they will be testing but will sending them off to their suppliers for validation/testing

I think their biggest issue is how to do it logistically.

 

[PeteH]

Here, is my take on this, but before I do please note, It is now 20+years since I last "practised". The regulations on transport of dangerous goods, applied only in a commercial sense, private individuals are not constrained by it. Therefore all "advises" are just that, Recommendations. There is not yet (as far as I am aware) any obligation on a private individual to have their vessel tested. I know of several persons who for example have garage air compressors, of them I am the only one who has EVER taken the closures out and examined them internally!!. But then I still have the skills, experience, knowledge, and equipment from my days of examining them in Factories and Garages etc; on a 2 yearly cycle. Gas cylinders are periodically tested by the "owner" of the vessel (Ie, say Calor), the user is a lessee. Fixed (gas) installations (as on say an R-V) are similarly not covered by any statutory obligation to test. In fact many are anything up to 30 or more years old and may never have been opened up. I only saw the inside of the one on the Winnebago because the Float valve had to be replaced and I took the opportunity to personally inspect it, Unsurprisingly (to me) it was almost pristine. Externally, it had no more that a few rust flakes having spent virtually all of its previous life in Florida, and I had no concern of the condition of the mountings, (from where potentially cracks can propagate), The likes of "Calor" did test portable gas cylinders periodically however they do it with (dry) compressed air or Nitrogen, in a water tank. (the cost of drying the cylinder internally after hydro test is considered time wasting and prohibitive, due to the volumes involved.) External damage and damage to fitting(s) is the greatest cause for concern, the internal condition, due to its content, of steel containment is considered secondary. I have never experienced nor seen recorded a situation where the failure of a Steel LPG gas vessel could be laid at the door of excess internal corrosion. AIR, steam and water vessels however are a different matter!.

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[Lenny HB]

Rubber hoses should be checked regularly and replaced after 4/5 years

Just looked at a Truma hose in a new vehicle label on stating "replace in 2028".

 

[mfw]

Just looked at a Truma hose in a new vehicle label on stating "replace in 2028".

Obviously available in 5 and 10 year lifespans then - gaslow sells hp rubber hoses with 4-5 year as copied from their website advisable lifespan - but it is nice to know that some hoses are advisable to change at 4 or 5 yrs although it will have a date on the hose so people will know

 

[gus-lopez]

Open to the elements 30 yrs old you probably are taking a bit of a gamble on tank condition more importantly how would insurance view it if you had to claim

True bu fortunately here my underside ,chassis etc; is like new. The bulk tank is completely enclosed by the side skirts & to do anything, even regulator change which I have done, requires the whole lower side skirt to be removed.
Insurance? I'm in Spain they would just pay out & the premium might rise a few cents. Like proper insurance in the UK used to be.

All info on this page..... https://www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/dangerousgoods/tanks-pressure-receptacles.asp

Doesn't apply to non commercial use. lpg isn't even shown.

 

[Minxy]

I've now had a response from Gaslow (see below) which appears to mean that they are putting a value of £35.80 on an 11kg 'expired' cylinder and £31.80 on a 6kg one but of course you'd still have to take it to them so financially probably not worth the bother for many people:

Hi Mel

The cost of re-certification is £99 per cylinder and you would bring the cylinder/s to us at Loughborough and we will have cylinders that have been re-certified ready for you to exchange.

Alternatively we can offer a discounted rate on a new cylinder:

11kg £143.20 inc. vat (normal price of a new cylinder £179.00 inc. vat)
6kg £127.20 inc. vat (normal price of a new cylinder £159.00 inc. vat)

I hope the above is of help we should have more details on our website soon.

Regards
Jacquie
​

 

[mfw]

I've now had a response from Gaslow (see below) which appears to mean that they are putting a value of £35.80 on an 11kg 'expired' cylinder and £31.80 on a 6kg one but of course you'd still have to take it to them so financially probably not worth the bother for many people:

Hi Mel

The cost of re-certification is £99 per cylinder and you would bring the cylinder/s to us at Loughborough and we will have cylinders that have been re-certified ready for you to exchange.

Alternatively we can offer a discounted rate on a new cylinder:

11kg £143.20 inc. vat (normal price of a new cylinder £179.00 inc. vat)
6kg £127.20 inc. vat (normal price of a new cylinder £159.00 inc. vat)

I hope the above is of help we should have more details on our website soon.

Regards
Jacquie
​

Interesting you can buy brand new 11kg gaslow bottle for £150 delivered at the moment ( not from gaslow itself though ) or for the cost of time and fuel and £99 exchange for a reconditioned bottle - certainly for me it will cost more in fuel than it is worth and probably everyone else more than 100 miles from loughborough it will be a costly trip if they exchange.
So i think my original statement about old cylinders being silly money is correct when factoring in fuel to return bottle and exchange

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[EX51SSS]

So i think my original statement about old cylinders being silly money is correct when factoring in fuel to return bottle and exchange

But the facility is available.
Within the industrial gas sector, the customers don't own the cylinders but rent them on a weekly/monthly basis and are unaware of refurbished cylinders. The gas supplier takes that responsibility and costs. That's why they employ their own people to refurbish their own cylinders.

 

[mfw]

Point i was making in original post was they fetch silly money meaning a bottle with a couple of years left on it will will make similar money to a bottle with 5 or 6 yrs left you have to collect them anyway - based on a new bottle at £150 delivered 10 yr lifespan so residual value £15 a year makes a bottle with 2 years left worth £30 and one with 5 yrs left worth £75 but they sell for similar prices and you still have to collect them - but that is how i view value of used bottles and scrap at 10 yrs.
That is my opinion on residual value of bottle and it wont change

 

[MisterB]

Point i was making in original post was they fetch silly money meaning a bottle with a couple of years left on it will will make similar money to a bottle with 5 or 6 yrs left you have to collect them anyway - based on a new bottle at £150 delivered 10 yr lifespan so residual value £15 a year makes a bottle with 2 years left worth £30 and one with 5 yrs left worth £75 but they sell for similar prices and you still have to collect them - but that is how i view value of used bottles and scrap at 10 yrs.
That is my opinion on residual value of bottle and it wont change

From your own sums then an 8 year bottle is worth 8 x 15 = £120 ..... going off the price quoted by gasfill at £179 for a new 11kg cylinder shouldnt that be 17.90 x 8 = £143.20? So one selling for £85 isnt such a bad price is it, whichever figure you use?

 

[mfw]

From your own sums then an 8 year bottle is worth 8 x 15 = £120 ..... going off the price quoted by gasfill at £179 for a new 11kg cylinder shouldnt that be 17.90 x 8 = £143.20? So one selling for £85 isnt such a bad price is it, whichever figure you use?

They also stopped selling the 15 yr bottles not sure how many years for a reason due to something within an eu ruling when they changed to R67 ruling but the 15 yr old bottles dont have it and were updated to the shorter lifespan 10 yr bottles - so personally i would factor the residual value of a 15yr bottle at less than a 10 yr one and i would not buy one in favour of an R67 compliant bottle 2nd hand option

 

[Minxy]

They also stopped selling the 15 yr bottles not sure how many years for a reason due to something within an eu ruling when they changed to R67 ruling but the 15 yr old bottles dont have it and were updated to the shorter lifespan 10 yr bottles - so personally i would factor the residual value of a 15yr bottle at less than a 10 yr one and i would not buy one in favour of an R67 compliant bottle 2nd hand option

Why would a 15 year bottle's residual value be any less than a 10 year one? Its down to the number of years 'left' that's important, not what it started with. I have 15 and 10 year bottles and much prefer the 15 year one for 'ease of use' as it has a bigger knob for turning the gas off and on, although I have adapted the 10 year one to make it bigger. To me a 15 year bottle with 5 years left on it and a 10 year one with 5 years left should be of the same value, what the value is though is down to the seller and the buyer.

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[MisterB]

They also stopped selling the 15 yr bottles not sure how many years for a reason due to something within an eu ruling when they changed to R67 ruling but the 15 yr old bottles dont have it and were updated to the shorter lifespan 10 yr bottles - so personally i would factor the residual value of a 15yr bottle at less than a 10 yr one and i would not buy one in favour of an R67 compliant bottle 2nd hand option

well all i can add is I have an email from gaslow saying that 15 year bottles are legal and will continue to be so. they also state that when it comes to the exchange cycle that 15 year bottles will be exchanged for 15 year bottles and 10 year bottles for 10 year bottles. if an eu ruling deemed that something was unsafe then it would have been banned, prohibited from use surely?

so if all that comes to pass, would it make a 15 year bottle worth more?

 

[mfw]

I'd say 8 year old bottle on ebay is fair game to sell on here it is overpriced - it is supposedly a friendly helpful community and at £85 i have no doubt you were hoping someone gullible will buy it although i did not make any comment until you had already got a buyer on ebay

 

[Minxy]

well all i can add is I have an email from gaslow saying that 15 year bottles are legal and will continue to be so. they also state that when it comes to the exchange cycle that 15 year bottles will be exchanged for 15 year bottles and 10 year bottles for 10 year bottles. if an eu ruling deemed that something was unsafe then it would have been banned, prohibited from use surely?

so if all that comes to pass, would it make a 15 year bottle worth more?

Interesting, I naturally assumed that they would all be re-certified as 10 year ... could you paste a copy of the email please.

 

[Minxy]

I'd say 8 year old bottle on ebay is fair game to sell on here it is overpriced - it is supposedly a friendly helpful community and at £85 i have no doubt you were hoping someone gullible will buy it although i did not make any comment until you had already got a buyer on ebay

Ah, now I understand why you started this thread in the first place ... it appears it was just to have a go at someone else selling a bottle for a price you don't agree with ... crystal clear now!

 

[Lenny HB]

I'd say 8 year old bottle on ebay is fair game to sell on here it is overpriced - it is supposedly a friendly helpful community and at £85 i have no doubt you were hoping someone gullible will buy it although i did not make any comment until you had already got a buyer on ebay

The chances are the seller thought they were asking a fair price and totally unaware of the testing requirement.
Only got to look at the amount of owners who drive around totally unaware of payloads.

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[The Wino]

Surely the value of anything is what someone will pay for it whether it is a house a car a gas cyl etc etc. If something is advertised at a price you don,t like don't buy it!!!!! I think people who buy a Merc are daft or an i-phone or designer clothing but if thats what they want to spend money on fine. It seems to me people complaining about residual value either want one cheaper......tough (after all the seller will be a mug if they can get more but turn it down) or are just looking for something to complain about

 

[MisterB]

Interesting, I naturally assumed that they would all be re-certified as 10 year ... could you paste a copy of the email please.

extract from email


Hi xxxx

Many thanks for enquiring about the recertification on the Gaslow cylinders. As I see Louise has informed you correctly on the procedure for exchange of your cylinder. You are correct that the cylinder you receive back will be a cylinder that has been recertified, tested for another 15 years’ service, by doing this you will not have to wait for your cylinder to be inspected and be without a cylinder.

Regards



Martin Kennett


Gaslow International Limited

Castle Business Park

Pavilion Way, Loughborough

LE11 5GW

 

[M-J]

I think people who buy a Merc are daft or an i-phone or designer clothing

tick
tick
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[MisterB]

The chances are the seller thought they were asking a fair price and totally unaware of the testing requirement.
Only got to look at the amount of owners who drive around totally unaware of payloads.

I was aware of the testing requirement and I still believe that one with 8 years left was worth the price I advertised it at. I also based it on the information given to me by gaslow that a 15 year cylinder will be exchanged for a 15 year cylinder, so after 29 years it would have had one test as opposed to 2 tests for a 10 year bottle, saving at least £99 (which is more than the cost of the bottle in the first place- does that mean I am actually offering it for free then??? lol!)

who knows, there may be people on here that have more than 30 years of motorhoming to look forward to, after all im sure there are some who have been motorhoming for at least 30 years already !

 

[mfw]

Ah, now I understand why you started this thread in the first place ... it appears it was just to have a go at someone else selling a bottle for a price you don't agree with ... crystal clear now!

Wasn't actually doing that as me having a pop at the price the op already had a buyer as he stated on ebay my whole point was buying 2 nd hand considering the used prices they make - is foolish unless sensible cheap money - surely better to highlight this fact as a lot of people dont even take it into consideration so i feel i'm helping people with a view to purchase of used bottles - and ebay is the place to sell for maximum return and i have no issues with what gets sold on ebay - the newer bottles are R67 compliant so it is worth taking that into account - and £150 new delivered compared to the £70 + used bottles fetch and you have to collect seems stupid once you add fuel and time on that

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[Minxy]

Wasn't actually doing that as me having a pop at the price the op already had a buyer as he stated on ebay my whole point was buying 2 nd hand considering the used prices they make - is foolish unless sensible cheap money - surely better to highlight this fact as a lot of people dont even take it into consideration so i feel i'm helping people with a view to purchase of used bottles - and ebay is the place to sell for maximum return and i have no issues with what gets sold on ebay - the newer bottles are R67 compliant so it is worth taking that into account - and £150 new delivered compared to the £70 + used bottles fetch and you have to collect seems stupid once you add fuel and time on that

Your 'foolish' and 'stupid' appear to be set at different levels to others. When buying stuff the purchase obviously needs to consider the 'whole' package (item, fuel etc) so only they can decide if the price is good or not.

Where is the £150 Gaslow 11kg cylinder for sale as I can't find it?

 

[mfw]

Your 'foolish' and 'stupid' appear to be set at different levels to others. When buying stuff the purchase obviously needs to consider the 'whole' package (item, fuel etc) so only they can decide if the price is good or not.

Where is the £150 Gaslow 11kg cylinder for sale as I can't find it?

Hamilton gas products

 

[MisterB]

Hamilton gas products

have you actually clicked on the link - although it shows as £149.99 on the front page, when you click on it the price changes to £167.21

unless of course you can point out where the £150 cylinder actually is?

and do you know what the r67 compliance standard is and why the older cylinders, although perfectly legal and don't need to be withdrawn, differ from the standard? - without copying and pasting something you've read?

 

[mfw]

have you actually clicked on the link - although it shows as £149.99 on the front page, when you click on it the price changes to £167.21

unless of course you can point out where the £150 cylinder actually is?

Ok i bought 2nd bottle last year for £149 and when i looked they still showed at £149 although going in price has jumped to £167.21 so i apologise for quoting wrong price.
Still going to say only an idiot would buy a used bottle at the silly prices they go for when you still need fuel to consider when collecting.
I dont give a rats ass here tried to highlite extortionate used prices and people dont like it i dont care tell jim to ban me for my views i dont care

 

[MisterB]

I'd say 8 year old bottle on ebay is fair game to sell on here it is overpriced - it is supposedly a friendly helpful community and at £85 i have no doubt you were hoping someone gullible will buy it although i did not make any comment until you had already got a buyer on ebay

I am not looking for a gullible buyer or to con anyone - my advert was in fact to swap for something which might be useful to me, I also chose to list it on ebay for what I think is a fair price. Many items on this 'friendly helpful community' tend to sell a little cheaper than advertised and I would have considered offers from other members of this friendly and helpful community.

to suggest I am trying to con someone is in fact offensive - I am offering something for sale, the value of which to the buyer is known only by the buyer, but as I have said elsewhere, I look forward to you posting on every advert on the forum, offering your view on whether the item is overvalued, undervalued or the correct price.

as they used to say on the price is right TV programme MFW - come on down …..

and I for one certainly wouldn't suggest you are banned for your views, how childish !!

nice to see that you acknowledge that the basis for your argument was actually flawed from the start ….

now can we get back to being the friendly helpful community we all want ?

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