Pulling a car

[RichieRY]

Hi all,

We have not long bought our motorhome (which is still currently being built) and I have been looking into pulling a car on the back.

I intend on going away for the duration of the summer as I am teacher, so having a small car handy would be great. I don't want to pull a trailer and I am away there are some countries you can't pull a car on an A-Frame - I shall just avoid those ;-).

After visiting some car dealerships there appears to be some different opinions and they have said not to do this to a car. Ford said the KA+ is good for it and it does not clock up the miles as the car is not actually on? Smart said they do not recommend it at all as this can damage the gearbox should it go out of neutral which is not unheard of (then would need a new gear box). Fiat said the 500 would need to be pulled backwards?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[denisejoe]

He has 510 kilograms from mas in running order add wife 2kids water clothes food etc, there won’t be a lot left for towing on his licence

 

[Ivory55]

Leave the wife and kids at home. Sorted. Haha

 

[pappajohn]

He has 510 kilograms from mas in running order add wife 2kids water clothes food etc, there won’t be a lot left for towing on his licence

There never was enough to tow a car.
A B licence allows 3500kg plus a 750kg trailer OR a combined mass UP TO 3500kg if the trailer is more than 750kg... IE: 2000kg car plus 1500kg trailer = 3500kg (both max gross weight)

 

[RichieRY]

I have just noticed your comments about when you passed your test. What is the weight of your new purchase? If over 3500kg you know you will need to sit your C1 test to legally drive.

Yes, I am on a new licence. The motorhome is within the limits. ;-) We were going bigger, but thought for our first one we should be sensible.

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[RichieRY]

There never was enough to tow a car.
A B licence allows 3500kg plus a 750kg trailer OR a combined mass UP TO 3500kg if the trailer is more than 750kg... IE: 2000kg car plus 1500kg trailer = 3500kg (both max gross weight)

I am doing the new licence during half term at a centre in Swansea. I want to make sure I am covered!

 

[RichieRY]

Hi everyone.

Thank you all for the replies.

Since this thread I have cancelled the alarm from the Rellerteam dealership and spoken to Ash at Vanbitz regarding the Strikeback alarm and tracker. Also held off on buying a small car and having the tower bar fitted for an A-Frame.

Thank you all for the help!

Richie

 

[sweetie]

Hi everyone.

Thank you all for the replies.

Since this thread I have cancelled the alarm from the Rellerteam dealership and spoken to Ash at Vanbitz regarding the Strikeback alarm and tracker. Also held off on buying a small car and having the tower bar fitted for an A-Frame.

Thank you all for the help!

Richie

You won’t go wrong with vanbitz good decision. Enjoy your journeys.

 

[Puddleduck]

Good luck with the licence.

For what it is worth I think you are doing exactly the right thing by not bothering with a tow car. In 20 years we have only needed a car twice and hired both times.

We use electric bikes and love them. We just have cheap ebikes - still have to pedal so it still keeps us fit (we are a lot older than you are) and we do actually go out on the bikes. If we didn't have the assist we wouldn't cycle.

Oh and another for Vanbitz and their service.

We also have a dashcam (illegal in Switzerland so take it off at the border) and I use a cheap Aldi tablet plus an app (IGo) instead of a dedicated satnag.

 

[Speve]

For what it is worth I think you are doing exactly the right thing by not bothering with a tow car. In 20 years we have only needed a car twice and hired both times.

I think it depends on what you like to do? For instance we go out birdwatching most days in places that you wouldn’t take a Motorhome and certainly would not ride a bike to, that’s why we take our car also we take our two dogs out with us.
Everyone’s needs are different, but you need to think about the options in the first place, we had been motorhoming for three years before deciding on taking a car. Good luck with your plans and driving licence.

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[pappajohn]

I am doing the new licence during half term at a centre in Swansea. I want to make sure I am covered!

I presume this is a proper driving school and of course you will be using their vehicle and trailer?

The reason I ask..... If you are planning on doing it all yourself there are specific requirements for car and trailer which are quite strict.
Have a look half way down the list.

https://www.gov.uk/car-trailer-driving-test/trailer-rules

 

[Cocoro]

Honestly.....take the extra licence and when your ready buy a car and trailer. If your going to travel abroad it doesn't matter how legal or not it is in whatever country....it's all about the interpretation of the police who stop you. I thought long and hard and wanted an A Frame set up for the ease of not having a trailer to park on site or store. For a number of reasons I'm so glad I decided on the trailer set up. Saves a lot of hassle when asked to "park over there" at customs!....."what you mean reverse around that corner now that you let me get this far?"....lol! As is usual, all my fears never materialised with towing a trailer and its amazing to arrive somewhere and 'still' have your car! That feeling never gets old. Get used to your van this year.....enjoy and plan what you need during your first year. Have a certified towbar fitted not a homemade one at one of these tow bar manufacturers....far more sturdy and if you have an accident abroad your in spec for any questions. Plenty of dry mouth moments in the beginning towing a car but after some experience you really don't know it's there...until the trailer wheels hit a curb at a roundabout....but at least it wakes you up! Love my Brian James twin axle trailer..! If you go with trailer.....don't try to save money by buying cheap, believe me...when the S..t hits the fan you won't regret it.

On a funnier note.....I've lost count of how many times I park at a services, walk to the back of the van, look out the rear window and unbelievably begin a rant in my head as to why on earth someone would park so close behind me so quickly after I have parked.......yes....it's true!

As for an alarm...yes Vanbitz alarm is great but ask them to fit using stainless steel screws and brackets. Can't believe they used mild steel as now all rusted out......looks awful and more work for you further down the line. Also tell them to fill any holes they drill in the floor with plenty of sealant.....unless it's evaporated on mine there wasn't much if any in the first place. Very important for stopping the moisture getting into the insulation.

 

[RichieRY]

I presume this is a proper driving school and of course you will be using their vehicle and trailer?

The reason I ask..... If you are planning on doing it all yourself there are specific requirements for car and trailer which are quite strict.
Have a look half way down the list.

https://www.gov.uk/car-trailer-driving-test/trailer-rules

Yes it is a proper centre. I had no idea you could qualify yourself? Yes - it is expensive being a couple of grand, but I know this company well and they offer a fast track for me to get it in the same week.

 

[Ivory55]

Blimey a couple of grand, no wonder motorhome sales are increasing against caravan.

 

[dathers]

Hi, late on the scene with this, but we tow a VW Up on and A frame (we tried the trailer route too with a previous MH but it was a nightmare) and have had no problems, lots of people use the toyota aygo or similar. One thing to check on is your towing weight limits, so max load of the MH plus the overall gross train weight.
We have a fairly large MH, rated to 5.4 ton with a max train weight of 6 ton.
Most city cars will come in around the 1 ton mark, and don't believe what the handbooks say, you'll need to weigh them yourself if you want to be certain of weight limits. So I keep the MH under 4.8 ton and the fully fuelled Up comes in at around 1 ton, so a train weight of 5.8 just inside our limit.

Hope you get sorted and enjoy.
Cheers
Dave

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[pappajohn]

Yes it is a proper centre. I had no idea you could qualify yourself? Yes - it is expensive being a couple of grand, but I know this company well and they offer a fast track for me to get it in the same week.

A couple of thousand quid. You've been robbed.
It doesn't cost that much to take a full artic truck test, the old HGV 1.
A C1 (7500kg) private heavy goods test is around £1000.
Professional schools pre-book a block of test dates in advance specifically for the purpose of putting the learner straight through. They aren't doing anything unusual for you.

I don't think you know this company as well as you think you do.

 

[Speve]

(we tried the trailer route too with a previous MH but it was a nightmare)

What did you find to be a nightmare, could you not reverse the trailer or find parking difficult?
Only ask as we have towed for four years without problems and even pitches that are large enough.

 

[RichieRY]

A couple of thousand quid. You've been robbed.
It doesn't cost that much to take a full artic truck test, the old HGV 1.
A C1 (7500kg) private heavy goods test is around £1000.
Professional schools pre-book a block of test dates in advance specifically for the purpose of putting the learner straight through. They aren't doing anything unusual for you.

I don't think you know this company as well as you think you do.

I don't 'know them' - just did my driving test with them and after calling more than 5 companies around Wiltshire, they are by far the cheapest saving me over a £1,000. That includes the medical, theory and tuition.

 

[pappajohn]

So I keep the MH under 4.8 ton and the fully fuelled Up comes in at around 1 ton, so a train weight of 5.8 just inside our limit.

And you're still breaking the law.

The required weights for towing are the MAX GROSS weights of both towing vehicle and trailer .. Whatever it says on the VIN plates is the relevant weight regardless of on the road weight.
Your vans gross is 5.4 tons, it's train is 6 tons, you can tow 600kg inclusive of trailer AND load.
It's all on the .Gov website.

 

[Speve]

Your vans gross is 5.4 tons, it's train is 6 tons, you can tow 600kg inclusive of trailer AND load.
It's all on the .Gov website.

Taken from said website I think you are wrong?as stated last paragraph.
As long as 6 ton not exceeded.
The chassis plate on the vehicle (see table in Section 7) states the maximum weights allowed - the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) and the Gross Combination Weight (GCW).

The vehicle handbook will either repeat what is on the chassis plate, or for convenience, might directly specify the maximum weight of trailer (eg 750kg) which is allowed to be towed. The V5C registration certificate often shows this too, under sections O1 and O2 (depending on whether trailer has brakes or not). Exceeding any of the above weights is likely to be construed as using a vehicle in a dangerous condition.

Where the sum of the maximum plated weights of the towing vehicle and of the trailer added together exceed the plated GCW of the towing vehicle, this is not a problem as long as the ‘actual’ weights of the vehicle and trailer (which may not be fully laden at the time) do not exceed the plated GCW

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[tonyidle]

Very important for stopping the moisture getting into the insulation.

That isn't a problem. The insulation is closed cell & can't absorb water.

 

[RichieRY]

Blimey a couple of grand, no wonder motorhome sales are increasing against caravan.

I think it is because I am on a new licence (2001). I have a few friends in the same position that held off buying a motorhome for this reason. I see it that I only have to do it the once and it will be money well spent.

I think the cost comes from the number of hours expected to get the licence - also possibly the fact I want a week course to get it over and done with.

 

[pappajohn]

Taken from said website I think you are wrong?as stated last paragraph.
As long as 6 ton not exceeded.
The chassis plate on the vehicle (see table in Section 7) states the maximum weights allowed - the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) and the Gross Combination Weight (GCW).

The vehicle handbook will either repeat what is on the chassis plate, or for convenience, might directly specify the maximum weight of trailer (eg 750kg) which is allowed to be towed. The V5C registration certificate often shows this too, under sections O1 and O2 (depending on whether trailer has brakes or not). Exceeding any of the above weights is likely to be construed as using a vehicle in a dangerous condition.

Where the sum of the maximum plated weights of the towing vehicle and of the trailer added together exceed the plated GCW of the towing vehicle, this is not a problem as long as the ‘actual’ weights of the vehicle and trailer (which may not be fully laden at the time) do not exceed the plated GCW

I hate being proved wrong.
For years I've believed that was the case but the gross weight of the trailer still applies whether its loaded or empty, that is a fact.

Bugger.... Has the law changed recently?
I'm wrong on the last bit as well.

 

[pappajohn]

I think the cost comes from the number of hours expected to get the licence - also possibly the fact I want a week course to get it over and done with.

One of our members, motoroamin, runs an HGV driving school but also does trailer test for cars and trucks and does it by block course with a test at the end, he takes you on an assessment drive first to see if you are capable then begin your lessons... 8 hours a day.
if you fail, doubtful, you sit the test again often the same day and if you fail again he will discuss options.
There are no further fees for retest.
If you want a licence for work he can even help you find work via his contacts...
Does your school offer that?

I still think you're being robbed and being a new licence holder has nothing to do with it. 17 years isn't a new licence.

 

[tjay]

We have a Fiat Panda and use a Brian James trailer to tow it on. No A frame as wife does not drive ! Hardly makes any difference to my solo MPG !
Our reason is that wife and I are both registered disabled, we can walk short distances but struggle with hills and stairs.
The wee car gives us the freedom to go and do as we please.
Beware though some sites only let either the trailer or the car onsite at one time ! this happened more in Spain than in France who are more laid back as to what you can put onto your "pitch"
BTW change this year to a Panda 4x4as the extra height makes it easier for wife to get in/out off plus can go down some real narrow roads to explore !!

Just remembered that we also pulled our various MX5's on a trailer too, was fab in Europe with the top down !! almost same weight as the Fiat Panda !!

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[Old and wise 1]

Hi RichieRY
I'm an oldie and have been towing a Smart4two for 6 months behind my Autotrail 7.4 mtrs. It's connected with an A-frame which is so easy. I have the benefit of rear camera which enables me to see if it's still there. I've not had any problems with gearbox etc. All my towing so far has been in the UK. We do quite a lot of French touring and because of lots of posts warning against A-frames on the continent we have decided that it might be prudent to buy a trailer in the New year. Reversing with an A-frame (whatever you hear) is a definite no no if more than a couple if metres in a straight line! Buying a trailer for the continent looks like the way to go. If only towing in the UK an A-frame is great. Hope this helps.

 

[Clever Claire]

We bought a Smart to tow, it's for sale in the classifieds complete with A frame. We towed it twice 10 years ago on the A frame behind the van. Abandoned that idea and bought a scooter.........

 

[Kevan]

We tow our Skoda citigo (same as VW up) on a-frame in this country and our smart car on a trailer in Europe

 

[Speve]

Just remembered that we also pulled our various MX5's on a trailer too, was fab in Europe with the top down !! almost same weight as the Fiat Panda !!

Just a thought do you realise the Panda 4x4 is slightly heavier 1100 Kg

 

[Alex and Lesley]

One of our members, motoroamin, runs an HGV driving school but also does trailer test for cars and trucks and does it by block course with a test at the end, he takes you on an assessment drive first to see if you are capable then begin your lessons... 8 hours a day.
if you fail, doubtful, you sit the test again often the same day and if you fail again he will discuss options.
There are no further fees for retest.
If you want a licence for work he can even help you find work via his contacts...
Does your school offer that?

I still think you're being robbed and being a new licence holder has nothing to do with it. 17 years isn't a new licence.

Pappajohn I am afraid that you are incorrect on the option to take another Driving Test on the same day there is a mandatory three working day gap necessary between Driving Tests, also at £115 per Driving Test I would doubt that there would be no further costs involved.

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[Snapper]

We tow a Fiat Panda with an A Frame (you don't know it's there) from TowBars2Tow. They are knowledgeable, friendly and not too expensive. We have towed all over France and never had a problem. However, in Spain it's probably better to hire a car.