Problem with Comfortmatic clutch?

[Mr David]

The garage need to ignore the diagnostics in the first instance and do the basic fluid level and colour checks and work from there.

Good point, thanks, will ask them tomorrow.

 

[Mr David]

Mine failed in Spain two years ago. Turned out to be the clutch bearing, had it repaired over there along with the clutch plates as the gear box was out anyway. Been fine since.

Clutch bearing was my mechanics first thought but time will tell. He doesn't want to drop the engine until he is sure.

 

[Abacist]

Booked in to Adams Morey for a clutch fluid change next month - the first for our van since new 10 years ago! Ooops! Obviously been very lucky to date!

I did ask for a price for a clutch change on an A Class 3 Litre Comformatic.

Its an engine and gearbox out job according to Simon so put aside £2,750 to replace the clutch and slave cylinder and add about £1,125 if the master cylinder has to be replaced and a further £700 if the dual mass flywheel needs to be replaced at the same time.

Comments about learning how to drive these properly are quite correct. My early first mistake was sitting on a hill in a traffic jam in gear which leads to the clutch overheating. I never now sit stationary in gear and put the box into neutral to disengage the clutch and either use the handbrake or footbrake. Using the hill hold button is useful when loaded and its job is to hold the box from changing gear too soon when climbing hills and inclines once speed has increased a bit. You must have your foot on the brake to move from neutral into gear or from forward to reverse or vice versa. Clearly trying to do the equivalent of balancing the clutch with a manual box to hold on a hill is a NO NO with the Comformatic!

 

[Abacist]

You do of course realise the manual box has the slave cylinder in exactly the same place??

Many manufacturers put the slave cylinder inside the bell housing which does seem to suit them during manufacture but not the end user when it comes to replacement or servicing as it makes the task so much more expensive and time consuming!

 

[Fragle]

Having contacted Fiat direct, their recommendations are check the fluid every 2 years change at 4 for the comformatic bit. So far 4.5 years and 26000 miles no problems (shh!!)

See we were at 4 years 23000 miles no problems at all. Because of the comformatic thread I booked in at A&M in Portsmouth on the return from our 90 days and £700 pounds lighter the service and fluid change was ok (clear) but was recommended every year by Simon the manager. Who also owns a comformatic I believe.
Whilst down there waiting I had walked to the local motorhome dealer seen a van and asked for a part ex price on our van

Somebody commented about it earlier affecting prices of comformatic vans.

Well he asked why I was bringing my van to Portsmouth for a service when I live in the midlands. I told him it was a comformatic and I only trusted A&M to do the job. Is there a problem then? he asked. No was the reply and there wasn't.

His offer was 20K less than we got when we eventually traded in the van. When getting other quotes I got the feeling it was already affecting the price with some dealers. Oh it's a comformatic was heard more than once

Even though it never had a problem and actually was a dream to drive in the Picos de Europa and all through our 90 days never missed a beat we decided to change before it was too late.

I would rather spend the £10k on a new van than a repair.

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[Abacist]

See we were at 4 years 23000 miles no problems at all. Because of the comformatic thread I booked in at A&M in Portsmouth on the return from our 90 days and £700 pounds lighter the service and fluid change was ok (clear) but was recommended every year by Simon the manager. Who also owns a comformatic I believe.
Whilst down there waiting I had walked to the local motorhome dealer seen a van and asked for a part ex price on our van

Somebody commented about it earlier affecting prices of comformatic vans.

Well he asked why I was bringing my van to Portsmouth for a service when I live in the midlands. I told him it was a comformatic and I only trusted A&M to do the job. Is there a problem then? he asked. No was the reply and there wasn't.

His offer was 20K less than we got when we eventually traded in the van. When getting other quotes I got the feeling it was already affecting the price with some dealers. Oh it's a comformatic was heard more than once

Even though it never had a problem and actually was a dream to drive in the Picos de Europa and all through our 90 days never missed a beat we decided to change before it was too late.

I would rather spend the £10k on a new van than a repair.

Everything is always a problem to a dealer when you are selling, devaluing your pride and joy. Later you find out they are all valuable extras and essentials to justify their high ticket price when they put it up for sale!

Don't get suckered in!

 

[peterc10]

I have just had my clutch fluid changed in my Comformatic gearbox and and the Kiss point (whatever that is) relearned. The work was carried out by the experts at Adams Morey in Portsmouth and the total cost was £135.55. Amazingly cheap for an A class Hymer with lots of stuff in the way. At that price changing it every 2 years is a no brainer compared with the cost of repairing it if it goes wrong.

 

[Cliffyboy16]

dggriff sorry I meant at least every 2 years for fluid changes.
If you have a detailed read of all the Funsters Comfortmatic Gearbox problems you will see how vague The Fiat Service resume is for Clutch/Gearbox hydraulic fluid changes are. Maybe its because we don't use our vans on a daily basis like a white van man would, so they are more prone to absorbing moisture etc that the need fluid changes more often, just like brake fluid.
If you look on the search facility you will see a post on this raised by our leader Jim "Comfortmatic Fluid Changes" on the need to change the fluid more frequently than Fiat suggest, then you will see its not only good advice, but not so simple to do.
Then I suggest looking at Kannon Fodda thread on "Joined the comfortmatic failure club" it was the lack of experienced engineers to carry gearbox work that concerned many of us, even Fiat Professional struggle with getting parts and fixing the problems in a normal service time.
Its handy if you live in the south of the UK, as Adams Morley seem to be the most experienced in sorting out comfortmatic problems, you will note that on one thread the service manager has a comfortmatic MH, and he changes his clutch fluid yearly, because he can I suppose.
I also posed the question to a Fun Paramedic who drives ambulances most days if they had any comfortmatics in the fleet, the answer was mostly manual boxes but , yes we have had 3or 4 comfortmatic vans, they spent longer off the road than on due to breakdowns with no gears available, needing to be towed back to base, then await parts like the rest of us, and those in house mechanics know their stuff when it comes to things that need regular attention on Seville Vans.
If I had a comfortmatic box, I would have taken heed of all the good preventative advice given by those that have learned the hard way, i.e through their wallets.
LES

Yes I have a 4 year old Adria comfortmatic box and note all the Problems should I have any. I did have an early gearbox failure and lost all power. After turning off engine and restarting it was fine but as I was on my way to Fiat Liverpool for a warranty issue I mentioned it to them as I was a bit freaked. After plugging in diagnosis thingy no gearbox failure came up only a pump? Can’t remember what but I didn’t open my cab doors due to having Herolocks fitted and used the habitation door ( that just had a seized hinge?) so now I open by cab door regularly to make sure the Fiat logo comes on and I can hear the pump when I open & close the cab door - touch wood no problems since.

I am taking my van to Adams Morley Portsmouth in April before my trip to Spain for a full service and fluids etc to be changed to be on the safe side.
Yes you only hear the negatives never the positives I love my comfortmatic i had a manual box before. Yes my old VW T4 auto was a dream to drive though

 

[Mr David]

After plugging in diagnosis thingy no gearbox failure came up only a pump?

Please can you be more specific. Was this "pump" replaced? What was its function?

 

[eurajohn]

Yes I have a 4 year old Adria comfortmatic box and note all the Problems should I have any. I did have an early gearbox failure and lost all power. After turning off engine and restarting it was fine but as I was on my way to Fiat Liverpool for a warranty issue I mentioned it to them as I was a bit freaked. After plugging in diagnosis thingy no gearbox failure came up only a pump? Can’t remember what but I didn’t open my cab doors due to having Herolocks fitted and used the habitation door ( that just had a seized hinge?) so now I open by cab door regularly to make sure the Fiat logo comes on and I can hear the pump when I open & close the cab door - touch wood no problems since.

I am taking my van to Adams Morley Portsmouth in April before my trip to Spain for a full service and fluids etc to be changed to be on the safe side.
Yes you only hear the negatives never the positives I love my comfortmatic i had a manual box before. Yes my old VW T4 auto was a dream to drive though

Just a thought but what about an A class with only the hab door, is there a work around for that ???

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[VXman]

I hope I don't live to regret this but am I the only one that is a bit fed up reading about the 'problems' with Comfortmatic. There are '000's of owners who never have a problem but don't post on forums - why would they. I, and several of my friends have vans with Comfortmatic and get on with it just fine. Having said that, if, at the time of purchase, I could have justified the extra £10,000 + to get a Merc auto I would have but not because I was scared of the Comfortmatic more to do with it being a true auto.
I do think you need to have a good understanding of how they work, a bit of 'mechanical sympathy' and patience. I found it was a bit of a learning curve but I'm ok with it now. I suppose it's possible that some damage could be done while learning.....

Ah but how many others (inc. non motorhome owners) have had problems and don't post on forums or post on forums other than here? In fact , how many motorhome owners on this forum have comfortmatic systems and what percentage have had failures. Lots of unknowns here.

 

[Carpmart]

Anyone have a recommended (competent like Adams Morley) Iveco Agile gearbox service partner please? I contacted AM and they don’t have the Iveco software so won’t do the job.

JockandRita - have you had your fluids changed on yours?

 

[gus-lopez]

Blimey, what sort of mileage would necessitate changing the oil at least twice a year?

Bi-annually means twice a year.

It means either .

When we describe something as biannual, we can mean either that it occurs twice a year or that it occurs once every two years.

 

[IRHP]

Just a thought but what about an A class with only the hab door, is there a work around for that ???

I regularly don't use the drivers door, at home the drivers side is against a wall, never noticed any problem. Is it something you are not supposed to do?

 

[JockandRita]

@JockandRita - have you had your fluids changed on yours?

Ours is a six speed manual Harvey.

Have you approached your mates over at Boston Iveco?

Sorry I can't be of help.

Cheers,

Jock.

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[rb62]

Please can you be more specific. Was this "pump" replaced? What was its function?

It even tells you what it does

 

[dggriff]

It means either .

When we describe something as biannual, we can mean either that it occurs twice a year or that it occurs once every two years.

I don't think so Gus-Lopez but it is a common mistake:

biannual

"biannual" published on by Oxford University Press.

www.oxfordreference.com

 

[dggriff]

Ah but how many others (inc. non motorhome owners) have had problems and don't post on forums or post on forums other than here? In fact , how many motorhome owners on this forum have comfortmatic systems and what percentage have had failures. Lots of unknowns here.

Yes, undoubtedly there are those who've had problems and aren't posting on MF, but my point was that people would rarely, if ever, post on forums or advertise the fact that they don't have problems.

 

[Carpmart]

Ours is a six speed manual Harvey.

Have you approached your mates over at Boston Iveco?

Sorry I can't be of help.

Cheers,

Jock.

I’ve not approached them Jock…

Jealous of your gearbox!

 

[TinaLes]

Service resume isn't vague at all. It's in the handbook. Comfortmatic should have the hydraulic clutch fluid changed every 2 year, non Comfortmatic it's 4.



View attachment 869276

View attachment 869277

Can I ask how old your haandbook/van is please, as many others seem to be quoting longer service intervals for clutch fluid changes, like 4 years for comfortmatics, maybe they have older service manuals? Its good news if Fiat have updated the manual to suggest changing fluid every 2 years now, its almost an admission that they know about the slave cylinder seals problem caused by contaminated Clutch fluid as it hasnt been changed regularly enough.
I hope Fiat Professional garages have taken heed of this if it is an update.
Thanks for highlighting this to all of us.
LES

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[JockandRita]

Jealous of your gearbox!

I have specifically stayed away from robotic gearboxes Harvey, due to the information read on here, re the hassle, expense, and inconvenience to others of failure.
If Fiat can't get it right themselves about servicing schedules, nor proper dealership workshop practises, then what does that say about their comfortmatic gearbox. It's a nonsense that owners have to travel the length and breadth of Britain (in some cases), just to access the correct servicing.
I have also read that the Mercedes and Iveco robotic boxes, have their problems too.
My experienced HGV mechanic pal (formerly Royal Mail Fleet Workshops), won't touch robotic boxes, as in his words, "They are a nightmare to work on when they go wrong."

If forced onto an auto-box of some kind, I think I might prefer a fully automatic 8 or 9 x speed box myself.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Booked in to Adams Morey for a clutch fluid change next month - the first for our van since new 10 years ago! Ooops! Obviously been very lucky to date!

I did ask for a price for a clutch change on an A Class 3 Litre Comformatic.

Its an engine and gearbox out job according to Simon so put aside £2,750 to replace the clutch and slave cylinder and add about £1,125 if the master cylinder has to be replaced and a further £700 if the dual mass flywheel needs to be replaced at the same time.

Comments about learning how to drive these properly are quite correct. My early first mistake was sitting on a hill in a traffic jam in gear which leads to the clutch overheating. I never now sit stationary in gear and put the box into neutral to disengage the clutch and either use the handbrake or footbrake. Using the hill hold button is useful when loaded and its job is to hold the box from changing gear too soon when climbing hills and inclines once speed has increased a bit. You must have your foot on the brake to move from neutral into gear or from forward to reverse or vice versa. Clearly trying to do the equivalent of balancing the clutch with a manual box to hold on a hill is a NO NO with the Comformatic!

Good advice. I also use the handbrake in the same way as I would with a normal clutch when doing a hill start. In my case I am not convinced that my van has the hill hold option fitted (not to be confused with the UP button on the dash) and never found the definitive answer to that question. I think it might depend on the chassis build date.

I have had a glitch with gear selection moving off a roundabout when my van had done less than 1000 miles but I put this down to newness plus possible driver error and it has not repeated since.

 

[PaulW2]

Anyone have a recommended (competent like Adams Morley) Iveco Agile gearbox service partner please? I contacted AM and they don’t have the Iveco software so won’t do the job.

JockandRita - have you had your fluids changed on yours?

I would probably try EW Smith in High Wycombe.

They were very good with my Iveco and in the early days, as a smallish outfit, quickly diagnosed and fixed problems that the larger Iveco dealer near Heathrow totally failed on.

They didn't need to do work on my Agile gearbox specifically, but they do work on them - e.g. discussed with me how my box performed compared to many of the ambulances they see etc.

 

[Carpmart]

I would probably try EW Smith in High Wycombe.

They were very good with my Iveco and in the early days, as a smallish outfit, quickly diagnosed and fixed problems that the larger Iveco dealer near Heathrow totally failed on.

They didn't need to do work on my Agile gearbox specifically, but they do work on them - e.g. discussed with me how my box performed compared to many of the ambulances they see etc.

Thanks Paul - shall look into this…

 

[IRHP]

Can I ask how old your haandbook/van is please, as many others seem to be quoting longer service intervals for clutch fluid changes, like 4 years for comfortmatics, maybe they have older service manuals? Its good news if Fiat have updated the manual to suggest changing fluid every 2 years now, its almost an admission that they know about the slave cylinder seals problem caused by contaminated Clutch fluid as it hasnt been changed regularly enough.
I hope Fiat Professional garages have taken heed of this if it is an update.
Thanks for highlighting this to all of us.
LES

It's a 2019 vehicle, handbook came with it. It does say 4 years for clutch fluid but if it's a comfortmatic there's a note 4 which states change every 2 years for comfortmatic .

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[scotjimland]

It means either .

When we describe something as biannual, we can mean either that it occurs twice a year or that it occurs once every two years.

“Biannual” means occurring twice in one year,

and “biennial” means happening once every two years.

 

[gus-lopez]

I don't think so Gus-Lopez but it is a common mistake:

biannual

"biannual" published on by Oxford University Press.

www.oxfordreference.com

Depends where you look.

https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/biannual


https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/biannual

& see "usage notes"

 

[TheLifeofBrian]

I've had 2 years of problems with the 'cbox'.

I found the main problem was the plastic spring covers on the clutch plate breaking off & causing the computer to think there was a fault.
We replaced the clutch plate with one without plastic spring covers & it seems ok now.
You need Multiecuscan to reset faults & reset the parameters on the gearbox.
A quick test for the hydraulic pump (another common fault) is to open the driver's door after several hours & get someone to listen under the bonnet to see if they can hear the pump running. Also look to see if the hydraulic fluid in the clutch reservoir drops when the pump is run - it should return to normal level after a few hours.
If you search my name you should find endless posts about this!
Pm me if u want to speak & I'll give u my phone number.
Cheers Chris

 

[WESTY66]

I've had 2 years of problems with the 'cbox'.

I found the main problem was the plastic spring covers on the clutch plate breaking off & causing the computer to think there was a fault.
We replaced the clutch plate with one without plastic spring covers & it seems ok now.
You need Multiecuscan to reset faults & reset the parameters on the gearbox.
A quick test for the hydraulic pump (another common fault) is to open the driver's door after several hours & get someone to listen under the bonnet to see if they can hear the pump running. Also look to see if the hydraulic fluid in the clutch reservoir drops when the pump is run - it should return to normal level after a few hours.
If you search my name you should find endless posts about this!
Pm me if u want to speak & I'll give u my phone number.
Cheers Chris



View attachment 869462

View attachment 869463

If it uses the same clutch, flywheel and gearbox as the manual, doesn’t the plastic bits come apart on the manual clutch also?

 

[SpeedyDux]

If it uses the same clutch, flywheel and gearbox as the manual, doesn’t the plastic bits come apart on the manual clutch also?

Perhaps they also do with the manual clutch, except there aren't similar sensors reporting to the ECU that operates the clutch hydraulics and the gear actuators.

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