Plug in heaters SAFETY ALERT

[andy63]

Given that there is rarely more than a few volts across the neutral and earth, it wouldn't arc. In my house its 2-3 volts ac.

But with a faulty appliance that may not be the case..
And a large current flow to earth from any part of the circut would cause that arc before a fuse went...
I know its all speculation ...just thought that a suggestion of a socket been wired incorrectly in this case was unlikely...
If it had been worked on recently and there was a likely fault on the socket im sure the op wouldnt have posted the caution..
Andy

 

[pappajohn]

And a large current flow to earth from any part of the circut would cause that arc before a fuse went...

Unless I missed it the op never mention if the fuse blew or not, only that the heater failed.
But did the heater fail or did the connection to the socket fail.
Was the heater tried in another socket to confirm it didn't work.
I still think it was a failed contact between heater plug pin and socket blade... Possible cause by the plastic finger guard being too long on cheap Chinese manufactured tat not leaving enough exposed brass for a solid connection.
If the plastic was fractionally thicker than the pin (Chinese tolerances aren't the best) it would hold the blades very slightly off the brass pin causing arcing.

 

[andy63]

Unless I missed it the op never mention if the fuse blew or not, only that the heater failed.
But did the heater fail or did the connection to the socket fail.
Was the heater tried in another socket to confirm it didn't work.
I still think it was a failed contact between heater plug pin and socket blade... Possible cause by the plastic finger guard being too long on cheap Chinese manufactured tat not leaving enough exposed brass for a solid connection.
If the plastic was fractionally thicker than the pin (Chinese tolerances aren't the best) it would hold the blades very slightly off the brass pin.

Possibly it wasnt mentioned john... like i said i didnt read the whole thread thoroughly...
I just thought that to suggest that the socket was wired incorrectly , ie the live and neutral reversed was very unlikely..
I thought that it would be possible to get a large current flow to earth from the neutral side with say a faulty appliance..or as you are suggesting the plug...
Andy.

 

[thebriars]

B

I know its all speculation ...just thought that a suggestion of a socket been wired incorrectly in this case was unlikely...

Andy

I think it is far more common than one might imagine, but rarely causes problems.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Unless I missed it the op never mention if the fuse blew or not, only that the heater failed.
But did the heater fail or did the connection to the socket fail.
Was the heater tried in another socket to confirm it didn't work.
I still think it was a failed contact between heater plug pin and socket blade... Possible cause by the plastic finger guard being too long on cheap Chinese manufactured tat not leaving enough exposed brass for a solid connection.
If the plastic was fractionally thicker than the pin (Chinese tolerances aren't the best) it would hold the blades very slightly off the brass pin causing arcing.

I'm not a gambling man but my money's on this too. Although we'll probably never know

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pappajohn]

I think it is far more common than one might imagine, but rarely causes problems.

Agreed, for years we fitted Ashley sockets and switches as standard in all domestic jobs unless customer specified otherwise but sometimes the purchasing desk would get a special deal on Legrand or MK.
Of course, you are on autopilot and stick the wires where you always stick the wires.. . Then someone reminds you and you have them all to do again.
If you aren't reminded the chances are they stay reversed.
Got to the point we were fitting whatever was cheapest at the time, even fitted some 2 gang sockets RETAILING at 99p, so had to take notice as earth post could be in odd places.

 

[autorouter]

And unless the wiring is old enough to need a rewire and is still on old Wylex rewireable or push button fuses with no RCD main switch, the RCD would have tripped anyway so I reckon that scenario is out.

RCDs only became compulsory in 2008, plenty of houses haven't been rewired since then. And motorhomes, come to think of it.

 

[pappajohn]

RCDs only became compulsory in 2008, plenty of houses haven't been rewired since then. And motorhomes, come to think of it.

Compulsory maybe, we were fitting them many years before that.
Main contract in the 90s was council housing.

 

[tony dellar]

Rather than suspect the chunky UK socket which can support a 3kw appliance with ease I would think the cheap oriental sailing vessel is the culprit ( chinese junk ) !

 

[Sharpen]

there no evidence of burning or overheating, the carbon left on the socket is evidence of a flash-over between the Live and the fixing screw which is earthed to the back box. You can see the tracking mark..

Looks very much like soot to me. If you check inside the plug you will likely find the source of the problem where the plastic has burned due to a high resistance point.
The earthing screw is too far away to consider arcing at main voltage, regardless of the load, and there’s nothing to suggest your socket is wired incorrectly.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[HandyAndy]

Looks to me like the magic smoke escaped from the PLUG and left a soot mark on the socket to me. Sweet FA to do with arcing in the socket IMO.

 

[scotjimland]

this thread is a great laugh.. so many theories from so many expurts and so little time ..

will it ever die

 

[pappajohn]

Looks very much like soot to me. If you check inside the plug you will likely find the source of the problem where the plastic has burned due to a high resistance point.
The earthing screw is too far away to consider arcing at main voltage, regardless of the load, and there’s nothing to suggest your socket is wired incorrectly.

Looks to me like the magic smoke escaped from the PLUG and left a soot mark on the socket to me. Sweet FA to do with arcing in the socket IMO.

As the plug is injection moulded to the brass pins and covers 50% of the pin which will be INSIDE the socket if plugged in fully where has this magic smoke made its miraculous escape from.
The plug and pins are sealed and the only opening on the whole heater is the air inlet underneath, the heat outlet and switch.

Any smoke from a failed heater would come out the FRONT of the heater, not the back.

 

[HandyAndy]

Well without seeing the plug, you are pulling all that info from your arse. It could be a screwed lid type for all I know and the push in fuse holder would be an escape point for the magic smoke anyway.

 

[pappajohn]

Well without seeing the plug, you are pulling all that info from your arse. It could be a screwed lid type for all I know and the push in fuse holder would be an escape point for the magic smoke anyway.

Look at the ebay images

Anyway, what do I care... I wouldn't buy cheap Chinese shit off ebay anyway and it ain't my house or my life.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[HandyAndy]

Just have....
Broken Link Removed

 

[Stewart J]

In light of the op and its winter here’s one for you all to mull over. Last winter I was slagged off by the moderator of a fb motorhomes maintenance forum and had my ability to comment switched off. (Needless to say I unfriendly myself their loss) The discussion started with folk discussing the best electrical heaters to leave in their vans when not in use. I commented suggesting that before doing so it might be prudent to check with their insurer before leaving electric heaters unattended for lengthy periods in case of a fault developing and damage or a fire as it could have insurance implications.
What’s the gangs collective thoughts?

 

[pappajohn]

And where is the heaviest staining.... To the outside of the neutral pin.
If it was the fuse carrier, which I missed, it would have been central.

Anyway as I said, not my house, not my life, not my problem.
For the sake of a fiver I would change the socket for peace of mind if nothing else.

 

[CazPaul]

In light of the op and its winter here’s one for you all to mull over. Last winter I was slagged off by the moderator of a fab motorhomes maintenance forum and had my ability to comment switched off. (Needless to say I unfriendly myself their loss) The discussion started with folk discussing the best electrical heaters to leave in their vans when not in use. I commented suggesting that before doing so it might be prudent to check with their insurer before leaving electric heaters unattended for lengthy periods in case of a fault developing and damage or a fire as it could have insurance implications.
What’s the gangs collective thoughts?

Agree Stewart fully with that

Which forum was that by the way?

 

[scotjimland]

I commented suggesting that before doing so it might be prudent to check with their insurer before leaving electric heaters unattended for lengthy periods in case of a fault developing and damage or a fire as it could have insurance implications.
What’s the gangs collective thoughts?

I've mentioned this several times in the past.. insurance company won't cover loss due to a portable heater

Leave any portable heating appliance unattended in your van at your own risk..

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pappajohn]

In light of the op and its winter here’s one for you all to mull over. Last winter I was slagged off by the moderator of a fab motorhomes maintenance forum and had my ability to comment switched off. (Needless to say I unfriendly myself their loss) The discussion started with folk discussing the best electrical heaters to leave in their vans when not in use. I commented suggesting that before doing so it might be prudent to check with their insurer before leaving electric heaters unattended for lengthy periods in case of a fault developing and damage or a fire as it could have insurance implications.
What’s the gangs collective thoughts?

Agreed, ask your insurer.... And we already know their answer don't we.

 

[Jim]

you are pulling all that info from your arse

Please discuss things without being so coarse. There's no need for it. Thanks.

 

[HandyAndy]

Yes dad.

 

[pappajohn]

We'll never know because as usual on the forum the op rarely comes back with an answer.
He said a sparky is coming in a couple of weeks for other work, it probably won't even be remembered by then.

It's been about 6 weeks now..... OP still hasn't come back as I suspected.

 

[TerryL]

Or he/she has blown themselves up........................

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[JockandRita]

It's been about 6 weeks now..... OP still hasn't come back as I suspected.

@Stretto Boy. Keith?

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[movan]

He's had other things to deal with and so probably hasn't been able to get back yet. Sure he will once he is able.

 

[Stretto Boy]

It's been about 6 weeks now..... OP still hasn't come back as I suspected.

Nothing to report. My electrician has got himself involved in a big contract and is presently unavailable. I am not using the socket in question, so I am happy to wait until he is. My money has been refunded in full for the heaters.