Plug in heaters SAFETY ALERT

[pappajohn]

Oh no doubt it will be you, your always right.
I bow to your far superior knowledge of everything

We'll never know because as usual on the forum the op rarely comes back with an answer.
He said a sparky is coming in a couple of weeks for other work, it probably won't even be remembered by then.

 

[Badknee]

I will.

 

[Peppadog]

Two heaters for £14 each. Amazon shows the seller as ‘Kiss Me’, which, when you click on them, says they are in GuangZhou, China. Though they may have UK stock. Allowing for shipping costs and Amazon profit margins, these are probably $5 to $8 dollar items! I think I would pass on these.

 

[autorouter]

That socket can take 13 amps shared between the two outlets not 13 each.

MK double sockets like that are commonly used on ring circuits that are protected by 32 amp MCBs. They are designed to take 13 amps per socket, ie 26 amps for the double socket.

MK sockets are CHEAP

I've always found MK stuff to be high quality, compared to the many budget brands available in DIY stores. If it's faulty, you could take off the socket and look at the wiring connection, you should see the wiring slightly burnt and probably the connection screw loose. If (as I expect) it's not, then the fault is in the heater plug.

 

[tonyidle]

I can confirm that there are no signs of anything untoward on the pins, only on the face plate of the socket.

What does the underside of the plug look like? Closer examination of your photo suggests flash-over rather than burning.

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[Theonlysue]

I think you can report to trading standards. It might save a life.

 

[JockandRita]

I think you can report to trading standards. It might save a life.

Agreed Sue, and advised of that action yesterday.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[scotjimland]

What does the underside of the plug look like? Closer examination of your photo suggests flash-over rather than burning.

that is also my view...

there no evidence of burning or overheating, the carbon left on the socket is evidence of a flash-over between the Live and the fixing screw which is earthed to the back box. You can see the tracking mark..





causes.. low resistance between the live and earth.. bottom of the plug or the socket face may have been damp or other reason to cause that...

IMV it was not a faulty heater.

Socket must be replaced .

This is also another reason never to leave any portable electric heater unattended in your van

 

[34127]

Is the flash over not on the neutral pin.

 

[scotjimland]

Is the flash over not on the neutral pin.

oops.. yes.. should have spotted that

socket has reversed Line and Neutral ?

in any case it's 'flashover' rather than overheating

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[sonny]

There is no burnt shape of the plug on the socket the flash mark goes across the face of the face suggesting the plug was not fully inserted or was inserted or withdrawn slowly whilst everything was switched on although you would know about that scenario

 

[tonyidle]

withdrawn slowly whilst everything was switched on although you would know about that scenario

I think most people would .

 

[TerryL]

Just as an observation I've been surprised at the number of times I've found a loose connection when changing sockets - even ones I know I have checked before.

 

[pappajohn]

Just as an observation I've been surprised at the number of times I've found a loose connection when changing sockets - even ones I know I have checked before.

Expansion and contraction of copper core conductors causing the screw to loosen.

Screws, particularly those in a consumer unit, should be tightened to a specific torque using a dedicated adjustable torque screwdriver to help prevent it..... Though very few sparkies take the trouble.

 

[Gorse Hill]

The socket can in total support 20A.

Potentially 32A if on a Ring, design current and correct cable size

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[tonyidle]

Potentially 32A if on a Ring, design current and correct cable size

Agreed. But double sockets are certified at 20A.

 

[PeteH]

Years back we welded a fairly new EHU connection into the box at Rowtree Park!. When we got it out and opened up the live feed had not been properly connected and was barely making a connection! Lesson learned, all new cables now get opened an checked!!

 

[Stretto Boy]

Thank you for your feed-back everyone, not that I understand most of it The seller has accepted responsibility and refunded my money. I will get my electrician to check the socket, as he is due to come in the next week or two for other work.

 

[autorouter]

Screws, particularly those in a consumer unit, should be tightened to a specific torque using a dedicated adjustable torque screwdriver to help prevent it..... Though very few sparkies take the trouble.

I agree it would be a great idea - trouble is, I've never seen any torque specs for screw connectors on sockets. I always use torque spanners on SMA RF connectors and any work on vehicles.

 

[autorouter]

MK double sockets like that are commonly used on ring circuits that are protected by 32 amp MCBs. They are designed to take 13 amps per socket, ie 26 amps for the double socket.

Agreed. But double sockets are certified at 20A.

Agreed, BS1363 says 20A per double socket. I must have been thinking of MK Metal-clad sockets which are specced at 26A.

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[thebriars]

I see a number of problems here:
1. A faulty heater which failed within an hour.
2. The wall socket appears to be wired incorrectly, that dreaded reverse polarity which is going to kill us all whenever we go abroad.
3. The consumer unit must be an old fashioned fuse box. A fault like this would have tripped the RCD had one been fitted, yet there was no mention of this by the OP.

 

[pappajohn]

I agree it would be a great idea - trouble is, I've never seen any torque specs for screw connectors on sockets. I always use torque spanners on SMA RF connectors and any work on vehicles.

There may or may not be any specs... I'd never seen any for consumer units until they were pointed out by my last employer.. A one man outfit... Who insisted on it
My previous employer was the largest private electrical company in Scarborough and in 25 years this was never brought up at tech meetings...or actually done on site.

 

[andy63]

The wall socket appears to be wired incorrectly, that dreaded reverse polarity which is going to kill us all whenever we go abroad.

How do you figure that?
Andy

 

[thebriars]

Figure what? That the wall socket is wired incorrectly or that we are all going to be killed with reverse polarity when abroad?

 

[andy63]

Figure what? That the wall socket is wired incorrectly or that we are all going to be killed with reverse polarity when abroad?

Lol...i was wonderi g how or what made you think the socket was wired incorrectly...
I havent actually read the whole thread.. so apologies ..
If its been covered..
Andy

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[thebriars]

The arcing on the socket is between the neutral and earth not the live and earth.

 

[andy63]

The arcing on the socket is between the neutral and earth not the live and earth.

I saw that..so the breakdown was on the neutral pin possibly.. i still dont see how that equates to an incorrectly wired socket.. ie live neutral reversed..
Andy

 

[thebriars]

Given that there is rarely more than a few volts across the neutral and earth, it wouldn't arc. In my house its 2-3 volts ac.

However, if the socket is wired with reverse polarity then the neutral becomes live.

 

[Spriddler]

Having browsed through all these gloomy premature speculations and hypotheses I mistakenly assumed I had stumbled into a thread on the forbidden topic. It needs resolving with a referendum.

 

[pappajohn]

Given that there is rarely more than a few volts across the neutral and earth, it wouldn't arc. In my house its 2-3 volts ac.

However, if the socket is wired with reverse polarity then the neutral becomes live.

And unless the wiring is old enough to need a rewire and is still on old Wylex rewireable or push button fuses with no RCD main switch, the RCD would have tripped anyway so I reckon that scenario is out.

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