Petition Increase the Category B driving license weight limit from 3,500kg to 3,650kg

[grumps147]

I have Type 2 Diabetes, controlled by small doses of insulin, Blood Sugar levels always within normal ranges no other medical issues at all, yet these unqualified box checkers can decide that i can only have a 1 year renewal on my licence, yet someone I know has full hand controls on his MH and only has sight in one eye, yet is considered to be safer than I am and gets 3 years every time !!
Also i am not considered safe to drive my 4500kg MH, max 75mph without continual scrutiny, BUT I could go out and purchase a 200mph supercar without any checks at all, at any age, I know which needs the better reactions and vision to drive
I rest my case!!

My case was the oiks do not decide the criteria for the boxes they check, the medical panel does.

I can see where you are coming from with the super car example, but perhaps the issue is reactions and vision for both should be the same higher standard, and it’s the super car conditions the oik has to check against that is wrong.

 

[georgio]

Good evening,
I think 3500 kg should be raised to a nice rou d figure of 4000kg for all drivers over 21 whenever they passed there test. Light commercials are very very different than when the 3500 limit was set , much safer braking etc. The manufacturers would soon rise to the challenge. Indeed my pvc on hea y chassis can be grossed up to well over 4 tonnes. The green issue would mean that fewer delivery vehicles would be needed thus taking up less roadside and creating less pollution. Motorhomes would also be safer as converters would have more leeway with weight.

 

[Dalcon]

Good evening,
I think 3500 kg should be raised to a nice rou d figure of 4000kg for all drivers over 21 whenever they passed there test. Light commercials are very very different than when the 3500 limit was set , much safer braking etc. The manufacturers would soon rise to the challenge. Indeed my pvc on hea y chassis can be grossed up to well over 4 tonnes. The green issue would mean that fewer delivery vehicles would be needed thus taking up less roadside and creating less pollution. Motorhomes would also be safer as converters would have more leeway with weight.

i have also raised this with DoT.
since we are now out of the EU they no longer control our license regulations, in theory with the relaxation on the B+E a 17 yo can no have the potential to be a 7000kg articulated combanation. 3500kg car + 3500kg trailer yet we cant drive a 4000kg motorhome. i have just signed reposted a link to i think your gov petition.
esp with electric vehicles being heavier i really think the limit needs adjusting across the whole board not just for alternative fuel vehicles

 

[joe and sue]

why is it that on 28 May I can drive up to 7.5 tonne, but on 29 May I am deemed no longer capable of driving the same vehicle!!

 

[Pablotti]

why is it that on 28 May I can drive up to 7.5 tonne, but on 29 May I am deemed no longer capable of driving the same vehicle!!

Why is 70mph considered safe, but 71 not? Why is 17 ok to drive a car, but 16 and 11 months not? There has to be a cut off, right?

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[DT]

Done

 

[Southdowners]

Because they changed the law but couldn't remove existing rights.

Yes, I know why it happened but it doesn't seem logical... at least to me

 

[Southdowners]

How many who are against this are comfortably driving up to 7.5t without taking a test? I'm willing to support this as imo the proposer has considered his position and others in his suggestion.

My husband and I are both comfortable driving our 7.5 tonne MH - no additional test taken.

However, I'm sure our children would be just as capable, yet they need to take an additional test. That's the bit which makes no sense to me. Why would they be less capable than we are? We all know people who, despite taking a test, are rubbish drivers no matter what their age - we also know confident drivers, again no matter what their age. It all depends on aptitude, not age.

 

[Guigsy]

My husband and I are both comfortable driving our 7.5 tonne MH - no additional test taken.

However, I'm sure our children would be just as capable, yet they need to take an additional test. That's the bit which makes no sense to me. Why would they be less capable than we are? We all know people who, despite taking a test, are rubbish drivers no matter what their age - we also know confident drivers, again no matter what their age. It all depends on aptitude, not age.

The decision was made that maybe they ought to make people take additional tests to drive 7.5t. But they couldn't remove the right from existing licence holders. Hence for about another 25 years, there's going to be people like me that probably ought to have further training, but don't legally have to get it.

 

[Folkranger]

I am all for an increase in B licence weight allowance but 3650 is neither here nor there. The licence category allowance needs to be raised to 4200kgs to be of any use in the real world. Just my thoughts so I won't be signing.

I tend to agree that higher is better but we couldn't make 3500 but are well in hand at 3650.

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[Folkranger]

my reasoning is that private users do not have unreasonable time targets to meet, and take breaks as and when, commercial drivers cover thousands of miles each year and frequently drive when tired / over stretched,

Sounds like a lot of campers to me

 

[Lenny HB]

I tend to agree that higher is better but we couldn't make 3500 but are well in hand at 3650.

I'm surprised you can run a DL at 3650 loaded up we are between 4200 to 4300.

Our Technical MIRO is 3340, that's before I fitted another 200kg of extras.

 

[pappajohn]

The decision was made that maybe they ought to make people take additional tests to drive 7.5t. But they couldn't remove the right from existing licence holders. Hence for about another 25 years, there's going to be people like me that probably ought to have further training, but don't legally have to get it.

Yes they can, and did.
How many folks here HAD entitlement to drive a full sized coach (D1) with no restriction other than 'not for reward or hire' ?
I lost that entitlement over 20 years ago after a driving ban.

 

[Folkranger]

I'm surprised you can run a DL at 3650 loaded up we are between 4200 to 4300.

Our Technical MIRO is 3340, that's before I fitted another 200kg of extras.

I bought this one hoping to run at 3500 but expecting to go over. Age meant reinstating my C1. The van had an ULW of something like 2900 but obviously more with extras. We're away now so no access to real figures but i filled it with everything, full tanks and us 2 and came in at about 3570. Since then, 2 ebikes and a bike racks weighing about 45kg. So just ok with a bit to spare.

 

[VXman]

Just because manufacturers are building heavy vans, doesn't mean everyone should be allowed to drive them.

There are plenty of vehicles of 6m and less that remain well within the 3.5t limit. If you want to drive something heavier, then there are more stringent licence requirements.

As I said, decent modern heavy vehicles can be easier/safer to drive than older lighter vehicles. I think size, length, the skill to maneuver is the bigger issue not weight.

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[Jonno1103]

There's two separate issues. One is whether your vehicle is built to take over 3500kg. If it's only rated for 3.5t, then that should be all it can carry.

The other is whether you're licenced to drive drive over 3.5t.

A licencing change should not automatically increase the payload of all 3.5t plated vehicles.

...But they're not built for only 3500kg are they? If they were an owner would be allowed to up plate to 3650kg by simply filling in a piece of paper. You then have to consider the motorhome specific chassis' which are lower and have a wider track at the rear to increase stability.

Here's an example, young emergency service drivers in Germany can get behind the wheel of a 4500kg ambulance without a further test so why should it cost nearly £2k over here? Nor do they require any specialised training to sit on an autobahn travelling at 150mph.

Our Transit can be a 4100kg up plate from 3500kg without any modification or inspection.

I can now tow a trailer the same gross weight as our motorhome, no test, no paperwork just a change in classification when I renew my licence. A combined mass of 7000kg without experience is far more dangerous than simply allowing post '97 drivers the option of driving a heavier motorhome.

My sister passed her test back in '83 and is allowed to drive all kinds, doesn't make it right as personally I wouldn't give her the remote for the TV far less a 5000kg tag axle she's legally allowed to thunder down the road in.

 

[Jonno1103]

Such a titchy increase doesn't seem worth the bother, why choose such a low figure. 4500 would be of great use.

Not so daft if you only have a 400kg payload. 550kg would make a world of difference and increase the choice for many.

 

[Guigsy]

...But they're not built for only 3500kg are they? If they were an owner would be allowed to up plate to 3650kg by simply filling in a piece of paper. You then have to consider the motorhome specific chassis' which are lower and have a wider track at the rear to increase stability.

Here's an example, young emergency service drivers in Germany can get behind the wheel of a 4500kg ambulance without a further test so why should it cost nearly £2k over here? Nor do they require any specialised training to sit on an autobahn travelling at 150mph.

Our Transit can be a 4100kg up plate from 3500kg without any modification or inspection.

I can now tow a trailer the same gross weight as our motorhome, no test, no paperwork just a change in classification when I renew my licence. A combined mass of 7000kg without experience is far more dangerous than simply allowing post '97 drivers the option of driving a heavier motorhome.

My sister passed her test back in '83 and is allowed to drive all kinds, doesn't make it right as personally I wouldn't give her the remote for the TV far less a 5000kg tag axle she's legally allowed to thunder down the road in.

An HGV is designed for a train weight of 44t. Doesn't that mean I should be able to jump straight in and drive it. Just because a vehicle can take the load, it doesn't mean it's safe for anyone to drive it.

Also, it appears you're arguing that the licencing should be more stringent (for trailers and older licence holders), not less?

 

[Lenny HB]

I bought this one hoping to run at 3500 but expecting to go over. Age meant reinstating my C1. The van had an ULW of something like 2900 but obviously more with extras. We're away now so no access to real figures but i filled it with everything, full tanks and us 2 and came in at about 3570. Since then, 2 ebikes and a bike racks weighing about 45kg. So just ok with a bit to spare.

Your MIRO is 2960 on my van it is 3090 but when you look at the next line on the C of C the Technical MIRO it is 3340 this is the weight with factory fitted extras.
I can't see yours being below 3200kg.

 

[Jonno1103]

An HGV is designed for a train weight of 44t. Doesn't that mean I should be able to jump straight in and drive it. Just because a vehicle can take the load, it doesn't mean it's safe for anyone to drive it.

Also, it appears you're arguing that the licencing should be more stringent (for trailers and older licence holders), not less?

My point is, why is one deemed safer than the other?

I've completed defensive driving courses, advanced driving courses & high performance courses but I'm not deemed safe enough to drive a motorhome over 3500kg? It's ridiculous.

The change in the B+E law last year was a joke.

How did it help the logistics industry which is what it was supposed to do. It didn't put drivers in larger vans to increase multi drops did it... It didn't put 3500kg white van man into a 4500kg Transit... goods to market wasn't that the argument?

Nor did it give any of the 30 -40 year olds out there the chance to apply for any of the 3000 NHS driving job vacancies currently available as most of the vehicles are too heavy.

It did allow younger drivers to go out and buy caravans for the first time without any experience of towing a combination measuring upwards of 14 metres or manoeuvring such a large box which in use creates many, many blind spots.

Now, I can essentially tug another motorhome behind me of equal size and weight without issue but I can't drive my motorhome if it weighs over 3500kg? Again, ridiculous.

Is the former safer than the latter?

I don't think so.

Previously I could have a combined weight of 4250kg - motorhome & trailer which is what we did with our Tracker EKS. Without experience how is that safer than driving the same Tracker EKS up plated to 3650kg free of charge?

HGV's require specialised training more due to their size in terms of manoeuvrability, loading, unloading, trailer use, driver visibility and the specialised manual gearboxes that used to be fitted - they're all automatic now - not so much their weight.

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[Dalcon]

My point is, why is one deemed safer than the other?

I've completed defensive driving courses, advanced driving courses & high performance courses but I'm not deemed safe enough to drive a motorhome over 3500kg? It's ridiculous.

The change in the B+E law last year was a joke.

How did it help the logistics industry which is what it was supposed to do. It didn't put drivers in larger vans to increase multi drops did it... It didn't put 3500kg white van man into a 4500kg Transit... goods to market wasn't that the argument?

Nor did it give any of the 30 -40 year olds out there the chance to apply for any of the 3000 NHS driving job vacancies currently available as most of the vehicles are too heavy.

It did allow younger drivers to go out and buy caravans for the first time without any experience of towing a combination measuring upwards of 14 metres or manoeuvring such a large box which in use creates many, many blind spots.

Now, I can essentially tug another motorhome behind me of equal size and weight without issue but I can't drive my motorhome if it weighs over 3500kg? Again, ridiculous.

Is the former safer than the latter?

I don't think so.

Previously I could have a combined weight of 4250kg - motorhome & trailer which is what we did with our Tracker EKS. Without experience how is that safer than driving the same Tracker EKS up plated to 3650kg free of charge?

HGV's require specialised training more due to their size in terms of manoeuvrability, loading, unloading, trailer use, driver visibility and the specialised manual gearboxes that used to be fitted - they're all automatic now - not so much their weight.

Its ridiculous. If i downplate my motorhome from 3850kg to 3500kg and put my payload into a trailer. .
Under new B+E i can drive 3500kg +2000kg trailer (max allowed by my trainweight) yet if i pass my C1 abd leave my 3850kg im only allowed to tow 750kg without doing another test....

Go figure

 

[Brains]

My husband and I are both comfortable driving our 7.5 tonne MH - no additional test taken.

However, I'm sure our children would be just as capable, yet they need to take an additional test. That's the bit which makes no sense to me. Why would they be less capable than we are? We all know people who, despite taking a test, are rubbish drivers no matter what their age - we also know confident drivers, again no matter what their age. It all depends on aptitude, not age.

This is a different discussion, but I have always been of the belief that first you should get your cycle proficiency certificate (at school, aged 11), only once you have this would you then be permitted to take a motorcycle licence at about 14-16.
Once you have held that for say a year then you could take a small car licence, and then a van licence, then a lorry then a HGV and then a PCV.

I would then have a refresher test for the motorcycle and the largest vehicle you are qualified to drive every 5 years.

The need to get and then keep motorcycle licence would deter a lot of potential drivers which would reduce the number of vehicles on the road considerably, it would also raise the quality of those on the road considerably.

 

[Folkranger]

Your MIRO is 2960 on my van it is 3090 but when you look at the next line on the C of C the Technical MIRO it is 3340 this is the weight with factory fitted extras.
I can't see yours being below 3200kg.

Buying used, as we did this time means the MIRO was little more than a guide as we wouldn't know what was fitted after. There's a good free weighbridge near us so we weigh things properly and i have a good handle on the weights we put in.

 

[Jonno1103]

This is a different discussion, but I have always been of the belief that first you should get your cycle proficiency certificate (at school, aged 11), only once you have this would you then be permitted to take a motorcycle licence at about 14-16.
Once you have held that for say a year then you could take a small car licence, and then a van licence, then a lorry then a HGV and then a PCV.

I would then have a refresher test for the motorcycle and the largest vehicle you are qualified to drive every 5 years.

The need to get and then keep motorcycle licence would deter a lot of potential drivers which would reduce the number of vehicles on the road considerably, it would also raise the quality of those on the road considerably.

I believe everyone should pass even the most rudimentary of motorcycle tests. It gave me mirror and indicator discipline I still use today, I'll still look over my shoulder before changing lanes and I haven't ridden a motorcycle in 30 years.

 

[RM_Marine]

Is there any real evidence that those of us who can drive up to 7.5t because of grand dad's rights are any more dangerous than those that have reached a higher bar by test? I think not.

I got 7.5 ton on a additional license to drive a LGV that I passed to drive a 3.5ton ambulance

I have to admit I really didn't help but I do take more care of what I have driven compared to when I do drive the motorhome

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[Minxy]

why is it that on 28 May I can drive up to 7.5 tonne, but on 29 May I am deemed no longer capable of driving the same vehicle!!

Did you eat all the pies on 28th so on 29th the MH with you in it became overloaded?

 

[Paulypaul]

Those comments may apply to heavier lorries but vans/trucks up to 7.5t rarely operate other than locally or regionally. As an agency driver I drove several 7.5t for different companies and the government, and never went more than about 100 miles, in which time one is never up against tacho time and rest limits. The unloading is usually done by the receiving company and in that time the driver is resting.

Which is illegal and proves the point that 7.5t drivers do need to be licenced appropriately when driving commercially.

 

[stevewagner]

And when you reach 70 you will still need to jump through hoops to appease some non medically qualified oik at DVLA to grant you permission to drive your MH

Not if you’re reasonably fit you won’t and if your not driving a 7.5 ton vehicle may not be sensible.

 

[mofurt]

It seems that a lot of people are arguing for complete deregulation - anyone can drive anything they like, at any age they like, with no oversight once they've passed the test.

"I'm safe at 3500, so why not at 4000?". OK, so raise it to 4000. Then you can argue that you are safe at 4000, so why not 4500, or 5000, or 44 Ton. If you have regulation, there has to be a clear cut-off to allow it to be simply enforced. Wherever that cut-off is, someone won't be happy. The police officer at the side of the road can't be taking time to evaluate your entire personal driving history, or if age/health related issues are reducing your ability/safety, or that a Fiat chassis of 2009 vintage has a design capacity of 4500kg but has been plated to 3500kg, but is still the same vehicle.. He needs to see "license says X, you are driving Y, go directly to jail, do not pass go". That means there will be cut off points, and there will be strange edge cases (like the supercars); around those some people will feel hard done by if they are on the wrong side of them. As I've said upthread, I don't disagree with a modest increase as vehicles are becoming both safer but also heavier, but even if that's done some people will still be unhappy as their next ideal vehicle will be just above that cutoff.

With the C1 - if we accept that as people age, in general health declines so they become less capable, then we have to have a cut off where you start to need to be evaluated as many are unable to properly assess themselves and decide now is the time to hang up the keys. Like with the dustbin lorry driver in Glasgow, where there was outcry that someone with his medical history was still driving, and, ultimately, killing innocents. Having regular personal evaluations helps manage the grey area as you pass from being a healthy 70 year old (and remember, some people at 70 are much "older" and less capable than others) to eventually not being able to drive safely or at high risk of a medical incident causing an accident. A pain to go through, but better than a hard cut-off, or allowing people who are really no longer safe to continue to drive big loads.

 

[stevewagner]

This is a different discussion, but I have always been of the belief that first you should get your cycle proficiency certificate (at school, aged 11), only once you have this would you then be permitted to take a motorcycle licence at about 14-16.
Once you have held that for say a year then you could take a small car licence, and then a van licence, then a lorry then a HGV and then a PCV.

I would then have a refresher test for the motorcycle and the largest vehicle you are qualified to drive every 5 years.

The need to get and then keep motorcycle licence would deter a lot of potential drivers which would reduce the number of vehicles on the road considerably, it would also raise the quality of those on the road considerably.

Completely disagree with your reasoning. Some people have a genuine fear of riding anything with two wheels and forcing them to ride before driving a car would make them a liability. Given that you are twenty times more likely to have an accident on a motorcycle than in a car, the last thing you need is more nervous riders. As a motorcyclist myself I am more and more mindful of the ever increasing volumes of traffic on the road and the amount of drivers with poor speed judgement.

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