Petition Increase the Category B driving license weight limit from 3,500kg to 3,650kg

Guigsy said:
Because they changed the law but couldn't remove existing rights.
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Is there any real evidence that those of us who can drive up to 7.5t because of grand dad's rights are any more dangerous than those that have reached a higher bar by test? I think not.
 
Guigsy said:
The reason for carrying load doesn't affect the laws of physics, so why would driving for leisure make your vehicle more safe? And there's the additional issue that it'd more complicated to enforce.
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my reasoning is that private users do not have unreasonable time targets to meet, and take breaks as and when, commercial drivers cover thousands of miles each year and frequently drive when tired / over stretched,
 
joe and sue said:
my reasoning is that private users do not have unreasonable time targets to meet, and take breaks as and when, commercial drivers cover thousands of miles each year and frequently drive when tired / over stretched,
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Counter arguments:
-companies are liable for their drivers. So they tend to make them take additional training.
-More miles also means more experience.
-Lots of us have driven extreme distances to avoid the ferry to Santander, driven late into the night after a day at work, or raced to make a ferry.
 
How many who are against this are comfortably driving up to 7.5t without taking a test? I'm willing to support this as imo the proposer has considered his position and others in his suggestion.

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Sit back, do nothing and wait.

The typical 'white van man' is driving a 3.5t diesel powered vehicle at the moment.
Within the next 3 years 'white van man' will need to be driving an electric powered vehicle.

The only way that vehicle can maintain the same payload and range is by installing big heavy batteries.
Therefore the rules will need to change to 4.5t.

However this will only be a temporary respite, because the motorhomes built on the EV chassis will also be limited to 4.5t, which means the same problems with motorhome payload will continue.

Once the 4.5t rules comes in, for many existing diesel vans it will be a paper exercise to upgrade to 4t or 4.5t, but as each year passes these van will get older and also the number of towns and cities into which they can drive will get smaller and smaller.

The bottom line is if you want to drive bigger vehicles go and take a C1 test.
 
joe and sue said:
my reasoning is that private users do not have unreasonable time targets to meet, and take breaks as and when, commercial drivers cover thousands of miles each year and frequently drive when tired / over stretched,
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Those comments may apply to heavier lorries but vans/trucks up to 7.5t rarely operate other than locally or regionally. As an agency driver I drove several 7.5t for different companies and the government, and never went more than about 100 miles, in which time one is never up against tacho time and rest limits. The unloading is usually done by the receiving company and in that time the driver is resting.
 
nicholsong said:
Those comments may apply to heavier lorries but vans/trucks up to 7.5t rarely operate other than locally or regionally. As an agency driver I drove several 7.5t for different companies and the government, and never went more than about 100 miles, in which time one is never up against tacho time and rest limits. The unloading is usually done by the receiving company and in that time the driver is resting.
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The Polish van drivers, with the bed over the cab that you see in large numbers all over Europe are typically only driving 3.5t, and they are doing big distances

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Guigsy said:
There are vehicle classifications based on weight. The reasoning is larger vehicles are potentially more dangerous and hence require drivers to reach a higher bar.

To get this law changed, there needs to be some reasoning as to why the existing limit is incorrect.

"Because I wanna drive a bigger motorhome" isn't a good legal argument.
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It's not larger or bigger though is it? It's heavier. I had my van uprated from 3500 to 4250. It didn't change size. Generally 3500 vans are not fit for purpose with their pitiful payloads - even some 6 metre ones.

Heavier is not necessarily more dangerous - all depends on the quality of the suspension and brakes. Some artics or buses are probably safer than a cheap Vauxhall Corsa.
 
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Brains said:
Sit back, do nothing and wait.

The typical 'white van man' is driving a 3.5t diesel powered vehicle at the moment.
Within the next 3 years 'white van man' will need to be driving an electric powered vehicle.

The only way that vehicle can maintain the same payload and range is by installing big heavy batteries.
Therefore the rules will need to change to 4.5t.

However this will only be a temporary respite, because the motorhomes built on the EV chassis will also be limited to 4.5t, which means the same problems with motorhome payload will continue.

Once the 4.5t rules comes in, for many existing diesel vans it will be a paper exercise to upgrade to 4t or 4.5t, but as each year passes these van will get older and also the number of towns and cities into which they can drive will get smaller and smaller.

The bottom line is if you want to drive bigger vehicles go and take a C1 test.
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Imo your last paragraph misses the point. Yes we can do that, although it discriminates against younger drivers that don't have grandfather rights. It appears to support a change to the car license weight before any further testing is required. Also it would allow a small uprating to existing motorhomes, currently languishing at the 3.5t limit, permitting those drivers who cannot for one reason or another drive a heavier vehicle - of this I know several because of medical reasons.

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VXman said:
It's not bigger though is it? It's heavier. I had my van uprated from 3500 to 4250. It didn't change size. Generally 3500 vans are not fit for purpose with their pitiful payloads - even some 6 metre ones.
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Just because manufacturers are building heavy vans, doesn't mean everyone should be allowed to drive them.

There are plenty of vehicles of 6m and less that remain well within the 3.5t limit. If you want to drive something heavier, then there are more stringent licence requirements.
 
I am possibly talking through my ignorance here but is 3650 the sum of the axle weights for a 3500 vehicle? I know we were able to register ours at 3500 or 3650 from new. We went with 3650 knowing down plating would be easier than up plating.
 
Puddleduck said:
I am possibly talking through my ignorance here but is 3650 the sum of the axle weights for a 3500 vehicle? I know we were able to register ours at 3500 or 3650 from new. We went with 3650 knowing down plating would be easier than up plating.
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Total weight must not be more than 3500kg. Maximum individual axle loadings may sum up to more than the vehicle's permitted limit though.

My van came off the line as 3850kg. It's been downplated to 3500kg (and still has 700kg of payload), but the individual axle limits remained unchanged.
 
Guigsy said:
Total weight must not be more than 3500kg. Maximum individual axle loadings may sum up to more than the vehicle's permitted limit though.

My van came off the line as 3850kg. It's been downplated to 3500kg (and still has 700kg of payload), but the individual axle limits remained unchanged.
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That is what I was trying to say :) Putting the total weight allowed up to the sum of the axle weights might help some people but they would still need to be aware of the individual axle loadings.
 
Puddleduck said:
That is what I was trying to say :) Putting the total weight allowed up to the sum of the axle weights might help some people but they would still need to be aware of the individual axle loadings.
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It's not about whether the vehicle can take it. It's whether the driver is qualified to handle it.

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Puddleduck said:
I am possibly talking through my ignorance here but is 3650 the sum of the axle weights for a 3500 vehicle? I know we were able to register ours at 3500 or 3650 from new. We went with 3650 knowing down plating would be easier than up plating.
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Normally on a Ducato it's 3850Kg, 2000 on the rear and 1850 on the front.
 
The petition is ill considered. As others have noted, the requested increase is paltry and arbitrary; I’d sign a petition for a sensible, future proof, increase but not for that.

Ian
 
Brains said:
Sit back, do nothing and wait.

The typical 'white van man' is driving a 3.5t diesel powered vehicle at the moment.
Within the next 3 years 'white van man' will need to be driving an electric powered vehicle.

The only way that vehicle can maintain the same payload and range is by installing big heavy batteries.
Therefore the rules will need to change to 4.5t.

However this will only be a temporary respite, because the motorhomes built on the EV chassis will also be limited to 4.5t, which means the same problems with motorhome payload will continue.

Once the 4.5t rules comes in, for many existing diesel vans it will be a paper exercise to upgrade to 4t or 4.5t, but as each year passes these van will get older and also the number of towns and cities into which they can drive will get smaller and smaller.

The bottom line is if you want to drive bigger vehicles go and take a C1 test.
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And when you reach 70 you will still need to jump through hoops to appease some non medically qualified oik at DVLA to grant you permission to drive your MH
 
VXman said:
It's not larger or bigger though is it? It's heavier. I had my van uprated from 3500 to 4250. It didn't change size. Generally 3500 vans are not fit for purpose with their pitiful payloads - even some 6 metre ones.

Heavier is not necessarily more dangerous - all depends on the quality of the suspension and brakes. Some artics or buses are probably safer than a cheap Vauxhall Corsa.
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I am fairly sure that a MH plated at 4.5 tonne running at 4 tonne, is far safer than one plated at 3.5 tonne, "up-plated"! and running at 4 tonne !!

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Petition already running for 4 month with only 1675 signatures.
Needs 10000 in 6 months just to get a response and 100000 signatures to be considered for debate.
This one isn't going to get that far.
 
Personally I am glad the medically unqualified oik at DVLA can make decisions. They do not decide the list and severity of conditions that restrict licences, as long as the medical bods give them criteria to go on. So the medical bods decide hypertension to scale level 2 is ok for the oik to grant the licence then that saves a lot of licence holders having to complete the medical forms and all that entails. The medical bods decide levels 3 to 4 are ok if confirmed by a GP on the medical forms as ok then again the oik does not need to send it to the medical review panel. Anything 5 or over has to be the subject of greater scrutiny, maybe a specialists report is requested, before that goes to the medical review panel. It is that panel that is the problem, not the oiks. A lot of us get stuff a lot faster because of the oiks and the computer systems they use. Yes, a few fall by the wayside, things get lost when they should not.
I suffered the delays of the medical review panel way before COVID at my 70 renewal and decided never again. It is why at 73 I opted to drop my C1. Some medical person had decided my condition at 3500 was no longer notifiable, the oiks had dealt with and issued me with my licence in less than 10 days until it landed in my letter box.
Give me a few efficient oiks to a medical review panel any day.
 
grumps147 said:
Personally I am glad the medically unqualified oik at DVLA can make decisions. They do not decide the list and severity of conditions that restrict licences, as long as the medical bods give them criteria to go on. So the medical bods decide hypertension to scale level 2 is ok for the oik to grant the licence then that saves a lot of licence holders having to complete the medical forms and all that entails. The medical bods decide levels 3 to 4 are ok if confirmed by a GP on the medical forms as ok then again the oik does not need to send it to the medical review panel. Anything 5 or over has to be the subject of greater scrutiny, maybe a specialists report is requested, before that goes to the medical review panel. It is that panel that is the problem, not the oils. A lot of us get stuff a lot faster because of the oils and the computer systems they use. Yes, a few fall by the wayside, things get lost when they should not.
I suffered the delays of the medical review panel way before COVID at my 70 renewal and decided never again. It is why at 73 I opted to drop my C1. Some medical person had decided my condition at 3500 was no longer notifiable, the oiks had dealt with and issued me with my licence in less than 10 days until it landed in my letter box.
Give me a few efficient oiks to a medical review panel any day.
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I have Type 2 Diabetes, controlled by small doses of insulin, Blood Sugar levels always within normal ranges no other medical issues at all, yet these unqualified box checkers can decide that i can only have a 1 year renewal on my licence, yet someone I know has full hand controls on his MH and only has sight in one eye, yet is considered to be safer than I am and gets 3 years every time !!
Also i am not considered safe to drive my 4500kg MH, max 75mph without continual scrutiny, BUT I could go out and purchase a 200mph supercar without any checks at all, at any age, I know which needs the better reactions and vision to drive
I rest my case!!
 
If the same van chassis could be plated at either 3.5 or 3.85t what makes a medically restricted person unable to safely drive the heavier variant?

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Lots of comments that there is a real difference between a 3500kg motorhome and up to 4500kg ones but if we are assuming that the vehicle has a fully designed braking and suspension system and anything else pertinent to its gross weight then the arguments fall flat when only recently the 3500kg trailer law has been put back to where it was almost 25 years ago.
There is absolutely far more risk and potential danger in towing something potentially heavier than the prime mover and as seen every year there are lots of news stories of overturned caravans and trailers but not many motorhomes.
I am not saying that the weights should be increased above 3500kg on a standard license but certainly that it should of been considered before allowing the trailer changes if road safety improvement is the real goal.
 
This discussion is so pointless.

If the UK raise the licence limits to 4000k/4250kg and to take advantage of that one buys a MH >3500kg one could not drive it outside UK until there is agreement to do the same.

Even then it might take Morocco, Turkey and the Balkan countries a while to catch up. To do so they would all have to rescind their agreements within the International Treaties.

Ask Ladbrokes for odds on any of that happening within certain dates.

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