Payload

[Jonno1103]

i was rather hoping the sender that would be in the second hand tank would talk to the ecu correctly, but i get completely the 60l sender would be wildly out, so as you say.. it might read wrong but im hoping not.

If you change the tank you need to change the ECU, it can't be re calibrated. Every Fiat Professional centre will say the same thing.

 

[Minxy]

Rather than change the fuel tank just carry a jerry can with an extra 20L in ... much easier than changing the tank and a LOT cheaper.

 

[Landy Andy]

So if you fit a 90 litre tank in place of your 60 litre tank and don’t change the ecu the engine will stop once 60 litres has been consumed by the engine.

 

[newtonz]

Payload poser .... So, if axle weight is the safe loading placed on the axle, and as the tyres, hubs, bearings etc place no load on the axles (in fact, quite the opposite as they support the axles), can I subtract 4 x 50kg aprox when calculating my payload?

 

[Minxy]

Payload poser .... So, if axle weight is the safe loading placed on the axle, and as the tyres, hubs, bearings etc place no load on the axles (in fact, quite the opposite as they support the axles), can I subtract 4 x 50kg aprox when calculating my payload?

Nice thought but afraid not.

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[Jonno1103]

So if you fit a 90 litre tank in place of your 60 litre tank and don’t change the ecu the engine will stop once 60 litres has been consumed by the engine.

No it won't stop but you will have a fuel gauge that will read empty after 60L.
Speaking to Fiat, all I know is that they say you can't have one without the other and most of the members of the Fiat forums say the same thing too.

Personally I'd go down the route Minxy Girl suggests... buy a jerry can.

 

[Landy Andy]

Sounds very odd and can’t see how that would happen to be honest. I would have thought that it will have a gauge operated by a float which controls a potentiometer, that will just move as the fuel is added or removed. It’s not as if you reset it when you refuel.

But it doesn’t really matter as you say. You can just carry a Jerry can if needed. But I’m pleased to have a 90ltr tank in mine.

 

[cmcardle75]

No it won't stop but you will have a fuel gauge that will read empty after 60L.
Speaking to Fiat, all I know is that they say you can't have one without the other and most of the members of the Fiat forums say the same thing too.

Personally I'd go down the route Minxy Girl suggests... buy a jerry can.

Jerry cans are much more dangerous than underslung tanks and need to put somewhere. Perhaps it would be cheaper to stick your own level gauge in and have an old style fuel warning light installed.

 

[mitzimad]

Jerry cans are much more dangerous than underslung tanks and need to put somewhere. Perhaps it would be cheaper to stick your own level gauge in and have an old style fuel warning light installed.

theres not much danger in a jerry can of deisel unlike petrol it doesnt give of flamable fumes legal to store it in large quantities above ground if you fill a bucket with deisel and put a lit match in it goes out mind you a leak would me oily and smelly in a van

 

[Lenny HB]

Just been looking on the Fiat forum looks like there are 2 options, change the Body ECU, tank size is set in the firmware or bend the float arm.

2010 Ducato 3 Litre Engine Larger Fuel Tank Upgrade | FIAT Ducato

I have just had my standard 85 litre ducato fuel tank replaced with the larger 125 litre optional tank. Replacement went well at the dealers but I have noticed that the trip meter and fuel gauge bahave as if it still has the 85 litre tank. Discussed it with the machanics involved and they say...

www.fiatforum.com

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[Pausim]

I don’t know how Fiat calculate range, fuel etc. However several years ago when driving a Citroen with lpg I got very confused. When running on lpg the petrol fuel gauge would still go down, even though I wasn’t using any petrol. When I stopped the fuel gauge would reset itself to the proper level. The explanation was that the level of fuel in the tank was only read when you were stationary and restarted the engine. From then on the ecu calculated the fuel used and range etc from the engine management information, not the tank fuel sender. The ecu adjusted the gauge while travelling, not the fuel sender which was only used as a starting point. If Fiat use the same system then the ecu is always going to think the vehicle has the smaller tank and nothing you do with the fuel sender will change that.

 

[Ivory55]

Is this ok for payload

 

[Langtoftlad]

Citroen Relay based Wildax - 90l diesel tank, 20l Adblue

 

[Landy Andy]

I don’t know how Fiat calculate range, fuel etc. However several years ago when driving a Citroen with lpg I got very confused. When running on lpg the petrol fuel gauge would still go down, even though I wasn’t using any petrol. When I stopped the fuel gauge would reset itself to the proper level. The explanation was that the level of fuel in the tank was only read when you were stationary and restarted the engine. From then on the ecu calculated the fuel used and range etc from the engine management information, not the tank fuel sender. The ecu adjusted the gauge while travelling, not the fuel sender which was only used as a starting point. If Fiat use the same system then the ecu is always going to think the vehicle has the smaller tank and nothing you do with the fuel sender will change that.

So then it will reset every time you start the engine. Read the current level and then work from that position Until you turn engine off. Otherwise how would it know if you have filled with fuel?,

 

[Wildweasle]

Strewth, thirty years of flying and I thought I new about C of G, accept the payload logs, not your visual assesment!

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[Pausim]

So then it will reset every time you start the engine. Read the current level and then work from that position Until you turn engine off. Otherwise how would it know if you have filled with fuel?,

Yes it will reset when you start up but the ECU still thinks it a full 60l litre tank not 90 litres. So when you have used 30 litres it will show half full not two thirds full and give you a range based on 30 litres left not 60 litres.

 

[nicholsong]

Our 2003 MH does not have these gizzmos but we have a fuel guage and I know what we use per litre on the flat and when climbing the mountains ahead, which the ECU cannot see, and my 'computer' calculates accordingly. My computer also knows where the re-fuelling posibilities are, which the ECU does not.
KISS - it is possible to ignore the ECU readouts and survivr.

Geoff

 

[Bailey 15]

frightning!!
Just been speaking to newbie down Cornwall. Was telling me all about his new MH and what toys he had with it. He went on to say hiw he also got awning, tv, bike rack and tow bar out of dealer.
I asked about payload he said ‘what’s that’
he then said his van was 3500, he didn’t know anything about C1’s
We then looked up his spare payload and it was 300kg
I directed him to MHF told him he would learn a lot
Why do dealers not mention payloads ?

 

[Ivory55]

That van I showed on the north west police Facebook was a 3500 with 5400 on it. It had 3500 on the back axel alone, it was full of barrels of beer.

 

[gus-lopez]

If you change the tank you need to change the ECU, it can't be re calibrated. Every Fiat Professional centre will say the same thing.

or just use it as Is having worked out what reading half fulfils.

250 miles in 3 hours ?? what ya got ? the millennium falcon ?????

150 kmh.

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[Billylou]

So I’ve been advised by the dealership l’ll have 718kg payload which they stated was the specified payload. Therefore I’m assuming that a nominal figure has already been subtracted for a driver and fuel. In very simple terms has anything else already been subtracted for example fresh water, gas etc? I don’t want to double count anything.
Many thanks

 

[Pausim]

So I’ve been advised by the dealership l’ll have 718kg payload which they stated was the specified payload. Therefore I’m assuming that a nominal figure has already been subtracted for a driver and fuel. In very simple terms has anything else already been subtracted for example fresh water, gas etc? I don’t want to double count anything.
Many thanks

Depends on the dealer and motorhome manufacturer, sometimes the payload given is a work of fiction. Check the brochure for what has been allowed for in the original payload figures and remember that any factory fitted extras will need to be deducted. If the vehicle is second hand get the dealer to weigh it and provide you with a weigh bridge certificate. You also need to check the weight for each axle, it is not unusual to find that there is little to spare on the rear axle.

 

[Lenny HB]

So I’ve been advised by the dealership l’ll have 718kg payload which they stated was the specified payload. Therefore I’m assuming that a nominal figure has already been subtracted for a driver and fuel. In very simple terms has anything else already been subtracted for example fresh water, gas etc? I don’t want to double count anything.
Many thanks

There is a standard EU recommendation for what is included in the MIRO figure but not all manufacturers stick to it but the Germans do.

Driver @75kg, 20Lt (20kg) water, 90% fuel (90Lt tank it would be 68kg) & 1 X 11kg aluminium gas bottle (18kg).

The MIRO is given on the basic van which often can't be bought in that form so all the factory fitted options and dealer fitted accessories will reduce the payload.

 

[Jonno1103]

So I’ve been advised by the dealership l’ll have 718kg payload which they stated was the specified payload. Therefore I’m assuming that a nominal figure has already been subtracted for a driver and fuel. In very simple terms has anything else already been subtracted for example fresh water, gas etc? I don’t want to double count anything.
Many thanks

He could be telling porkies...

Malibu 540DB in standard running order is 2655kg. It's a 3300kg standard chassis van so I'd estimate a payload of 645kg before cost option packages etc.

If you've opted for the the 3500kg chassis the payload would be 845kg.

You haven't said whether you've added any of the packages, if so these will all need to deducted from your payload. For instance the chassis package is 53kg, cabin package 6kg, style pack 16kg, driver assist 2kg, winter 30kg...

A total of 107kg. this would need to be deducted if you've gone for all the options.

Wind out awning - 25-35kg. Bike rack 8kg. Alloys 16kg.

Worst case if you've gone for all the toys you could be looking at a 479 -679kg payload. Dependant on which light chassis it's on.

As Lenny mentions it's EU standard so 75kg for the driver, 11kg aluminium gas bottle, 90% of your 75L fuel tank & 20L of water included.

Scrutinise all the brochures and work out the weights for yourself. It's quick and painless, I did it writing this post, they're all here.

Motorhome | Camper Van download informational material

Download informational material on Malibu motorhomes and camper vans now!

www.malibu-carthago.com

Euro built vans don't have a figure in sub section G on the V5C, British vans do and every one is a different value as it's the weight the vehicle leaves the factory including the production line fitted cost options.

 

[Lenny HB]

Always advisable to check the Certificate of Conformity it will have a line stating Mass in Running Order under that it will have a line stating Technical Mass in Running Order.
The Technical MIRO is the important one as that includes any options and I think it is the actual MIRO including tolerance, it always has been on the 3 Hymers we have had.

If the dealer won't show you the C of C before the handover, walk away as its probably overweight.

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[RandallC]

So I’ve been advised by the dealership l’ll have 718kg payload which they stated was the specified payload. Therefore I’m assuming that a nominal figure has already been subtracted for a driver and fuel. In very simple terms has anything else already been subtracted for example fresh water, gas etc? I don’t want to double count anything.
Many thanks

That will be for the min spec van. Add up the auto box, extra HP from the engine, gaslow, awning, solar, etc etc.

ONLY way to be sure is to get the dealer to supply you with a certified weighbridge check.

We asked for that and found the van was 50kg less than it's plated 3500kg. shall say no more.

 

[Billylou]

Thank you very much Pausim Lenny HB Jonno1103 and RandallC for your responses. I’m going to settle down today and have a go at working it out. The van is brand new with a number of options and packages included. I don’t have the permissible laden weight yet, which I can get tomorrow, so I’ll assume worse case.

 

[Lenny HB]

Thank you very much Pausim Lenny HB Jonno1103 and RandallC for your responses. I’m going to settle down today and have a go at working it out. The van is brand new with a number of options and packages included. I don’t have the permissible laden weight yet, which I can get tomorrow, so I’ll assume worse case.

What is the van?

 

[Billylou]

What is the van?

It’s a Malibu 540DB. It’s currently at the dealership waiting for DVLA registration. I’m quietly confident we’ll have sufficient payload, the objective is to determine what’s left so we can consider installing an underslung LPG tank whilst also carrying 2 Campingaz 907 bottles.

 

[Lenny HB]

I don't know about the panel vans but Carthago CB's are always towards top tolerance about 230kg over.
All the people I know with Malibu PVC's have them on the maxi 4250kg chassis.

Why would you want to carry 907 bottles, the most expensive gas in the world. If you have an LPG it makes no sense.

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