Payload of MH

[diane taylor]

I’ve read that before you go to Europe you must empty the MH, take it to a weigh station to weigh it, then pack it again, weigh it again and then you’ll know the payload. Seems very onerous. What do people think?

 

[Folkranger]

I don't know that they are that hidden, just that you have to ask the right questions. Knowing the right questions is the key.
Which is why we are all here

I imagine that few people planning what is probably their second biggest single expenditure, simply waltz into Motorhomes R Us and go, "Errrr... that white one over there!"
Or maybe it is just me.

I will say for the prosecution, that when we had decided to trade in our tug for a chug, were seriously starry-eyed. Down at a well known dealer on the South Coast, the guy there wanted to sell his forecourt stock. None of which was 3500kg (Mrs DDJC has a post '97 licence). He actually said that he couldn't order new ones yet! Weird way to run a business. But anyway the point is that we looked at some 3800s and some lovely tag axles, and at no point did the Salesdude actually point out that the Mrs couldn't actually drive it.

So he lost a sale and we bought one at the NEC a few months later, but it taught us the lesson. Know what you want before hand. Research everything. Understand everything. The sales bloke doesn't give a toss whether it is too big for you or too small for you. He is there to flog you a bus, and all their talk about "Twenty tones cargo with standard MIRO" is no defence when the Gendarmes rock up with their scales. You have to work out how much weight you are, because no one runs with the MIRO that the sales blurb talks about.

I mainly agree but I think you belittle the average buyer (errr that white one over there). Yes do your research but on such an issue of legality or safety it shouldn't be 100% the responsibility of the buyer who with the best will in the world doesn't know exactly what he's getting until it's properly weighed. Usually after the sale.

I think that most first time buyers get taken in by the sales blurb and false information provided. There has to be a legal responsibility on the seller's part. I would suggest that all motorhomes, new and old, have to be weighed before being put on sale and this weight, including and added extras and variation due to manufacturers tolerance should be the one stated before the sale.

Whenever you visit a dealer who has signs on each van quoting the "payload" or selling 7.5m vans as suitable for 3500kg licence you know that this is all lies, but the newbie doesn't and can be easilly decieved. It would be great if every new buyer was knowledgable but don't blame them if they aren't.

 

[DDJC]

I mainly agree but I think you belittle the average buyer (errr that white one over there). Yes do your research but on such an issue of legality or safety it shouldn't be 100% the responsibility of the buyer who with the best will in the world doesn't know exactly what he's getting until it's properly weighed. Usually after the sale.

I think that most first time buyers get taken in by the sales blurb and false information provided. There has to be a legal responsibility on the seller's part. I would suggest that all motorhomes, new and old, have to be weighed before being put on sale and this weight, including and added extras and variation due to manufacturers tolerance should be the one stated before the sale.

Whenever you visit a dealer who has signs on each van quoting the "payload" or selling 7.5m vans as suitable for 3500kg licence you know that this is all lies, but the newbie doesn't and can be easilly decieved. It would be great if every new buyer was knowledgable but don't blame them if they aren't.

I think we are mostly in heated agreement. I said that few people did that.

But the idea of a motorhome dealer feeling that they have a responsibility is laughable, as described perfectly in your penultimate sentence. Which is why the best place for a newbie to start searching for a new motorhome is right here. Before you even look at a motorhome, you need to know what you can drive, can afford and what suits your need. And then be prepared to change your parameters, as you learn more.

 

[Tony the Manc']

Many thanks to all providing important information.

 

[Tony the Manc']

Smee again. Just returned from a few days in Wensleydale on a CL. Lovely. Now, have any of you any suggestion as to how I can keep moisture off the rear view camera.
It is angled correctly, as far as I am aware. I get a good view of the trailer being towed and its helpful when reversing it. It could be more spray than rain however, I could do with it being / staying clear.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Minxy]

Smee again. Just returned from a few days in Wensleydale on a CL. Lovely. Now, have any of you any suggestion as to how I can keep moisture off the rear view camera.
It is angled correctly, as far as I am aware. I get a good view of the trailer being towed and its helpful when reversing it. It could be more spray than rain however, I could do with it being / staying clear.

What's it look like ...

 

[Tony the Manc']

Pictures as requested............

 

[Minxy]

I assume the little 'hood' comes down over the camera when it's not in use? If not and it stays in that position you could put a little hood right on the top of the camera itself and round the sides a bit to give it protection from above. As for below, if the problem is spray then putting something lower down on the bottom of the 'U' bit which sticks out further and is wider than the camera should stop upward spray. I'd experiment using something like an ice-cream tub (1 litre) and tape it on then have a run when it's raining and see if it still gets as wet. When I mounted the rear view camera on our previous PVC I put it below the rear bumper with a little 'cowl' round it and it fully protected it so it doesn't take much.

 

[bigtwin]

I think that most first time buyers get taken in by the sales blurb and false information provided. There has to be a legal responsibility on the seller's part.

That’s a complete abdication of your own responsibility.

Surely EVERYONE should be aware that if they fancied buying, for example, a 200hp motorcycle (or JCB, etc) that they’d need to ensure that they held an appropriate licence for the vehicle. Motorhomes are no different and it’s not clear to me why anyone would assume that they could drive a 4 tonne MH away without ensuring that they had the required licence classification or that the salesperson should be compelled to assume that they’re dealing with someone without a clue.

Ian

 

[Minxy]

That’s a complete abdication of your own responsibility.

Surely EVERYONE should be aware that if they fancied buying, for example, a 200hp motorcycle (or JCB, etc) that they’d need to ensure that they held an appropriate licence for the vehicle. Motorhomes are no different and it’s not clear to me why anyone would assume that they could drive a 4 tonne MH away without ensuring that they had the required licence classification or that the salesperson should be compelled to assume that they’re dealing with someone without a clue.

Ian

I don't agree, how many times have you read a brochure, seen an advert for a MH etc, saying it's 3500kg with X payload with no mention of those figures being subject to +/- 5%? Unless you get it weighed, or read forums, mags etc, you will be completely unaware that the advertised payload could be very different from the real payload and could in effect make it unable to be used, some people on this very forum have had this with MHs being delivered with not much more than 200kg of payload left.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Reallyretired]

At the end of the day it is common sense and asking people who have more experience. You do not get a manual with a baby or a car.

Have to disagree about the car. My Hyundai came with half a dozen largish books, the one on the infotainment system alone was about the size of a bible. Needless to say I haven't read them. Anything I want to know is best found on the Ioniq forum.

 

[scotzsue]

At the end of the day it is common sense and asking people who have more experience. You do not get a manual with a baby or a car.

Sort of know where you are coming from, but what if you ask a manufacturer, who you think would know the weight of his vehicles and get either no answer or downright lies. We had asked a few time about the weight of a vehicle and payload, all other vehicles by the same, small manufacturer had full weights on the web site, but not for the one we were interested in. Was being sold as under 3.5 did a bit of research, got the model of vehicle and then the manufacturers details re weight, vehicle in empty van state was less than 100K under 3.5, that was without the conversion, we walked away.
another when i asked about payload was told oh that doesn't matter. Now I had had motorhomes for years and had reserched for about 2 years before John and I bought our retirement van.
Feel sorry for those who get wrong or no information so a sale is made.

 

[bigtwin]

I don't agree, how many times have you read a brochure, seen an advert for a MH etc, saying it's 3500kg with X payload with no mention of those figures being subject to +/- 5%? Unless you get it weighed, or read forums, mags etc, you will be completely unaware that the advertised payload could be very different from the real payload and could in effect make it unable to be used, some people on this very forum have had this with MHs being delivered with not much more than 200kg of payload left.

My comment relates to buyers‘ responsibility for ensuring that they hold an appropriate licence for the vehicle that they’re purchasing and is unrelated to payloads or other vehicle related specifications.

However, having read the post to which I was replying again, I acknowledge that it was more wide-ranging than my licence specific response.

Ian

 

[Lenny HB]

I must admit I don't understand people who don't research the product they are buying perhaps it's me but I research nearly everthing I buy especially if its going to cost a lot money. I've always been aware of payloads even in our tugging days.
The van we have on order they claim you can run at 3500 but its only got a payload of 600 kg so we have ordered it on the maxi chassis giving us 1350kg payload.

 

[Emmit]

Ok........Silly Question time. If towing a trailer with a motorbike on it, does that affect the weight limit of the motorhome. I have been told it does, and been also told it doesn't..........is there a definitive answer?

I've looked and I haven't seen the answer to your question.
(If I've missed it I apologise)

For your trailer to be dragged effectively on the back of your vehicle requires what is known
as 'Noseweight'.

Our cousins who tow caravans would suggest that the correct ''Noseweight' should be 7%
of the weight of the trailer with it's load but, in the case of a motorcycle I think that could be
modified.
What I suggest is that you put the bike on the trailer and then measure the noseweight by using a
set of scales and a suitable length of wood to measure the weight imparted on the scales by the
trailer loaded with the bike. You don't want a towhitch that weighs 'Nothing'. You want the towhitch to
record a weight of about 50Kgs.

Before I knew anything about this I assumed that the trailer should be 'balanced' and, as a result
I had a trailer on the back of of my Vauxhall Vectra (YES! That long ago) that was wagging my car
all over the road at anything over 45mph.

If you place the bike on the trailer to give a noseweight of, say 50Kgs, you will have a stable outfit.

Correspondingly, you will have an increase in the rear axle weight of your van in excess of 50Kgs
as a result of the overhang of the van from the rear axle having the load imparted upon it by the trailer.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[dunnah01]

That’s a complete abdication of your own responsibility.

Surely EVERYONE should be aware that if they fancied buying, for example, a 200hp motorcycle (or JCB, etc) that they’d need to ensure that they held an appropriate licence for the vehicle. Motorhomes are no different and it’s not clear to me why anyone would assume that they could drive a 4 tonne MH away without ensuring that they had the required licence classification or that the salesperson should be compelled to assume that they’re dealing with someone without a clue.

Ian

Not sure motorcycles and following the law are the best examples

 

[Folkranger]

That’s a complete abdication of your own responsibility.

Surely EVERYONE should be aware that if they fancied buying, for example, a 200hp motorcycle (or JCB, etc) that they’d need to ensure that they held an appropriate licence for the vehicle. Motorhomes are no different and it’s not clear to me why anyone would assume that they could drive a 4 tonne MH away without ensuring that they had the required licence classification or that the salesperson should be compelled to assume that they’re dealing with someone without a clue.

Ian

Sorry but that's rubbish.

We're not talking about people not knowing which licence they need, rather people being deceived about a vehicle that should be within their 3500 licence but will fail to meet that weight even with the lightest of loading.

 

[JaG]

Sorry but that's rubbish.

We're not talking about people not knowing which licence they need, rather people being deceived about a vehicle that should be within their 3500 licence but will fail to meet that weight even with the lightest of loading.

You are absolutely right Folkranger.
I was quite blank when it came to buying my current motorhome, and was duped by the salesman.
They had had it six months and no sale. It was rated at 3500kg but they offered to uprate to 3900kg. Very nice, thank you.
Some time later I weighed it on the weighbridge completely empty, apart from the essentials of gas bottles, fuel, etc. It cam to 3850kg. That left 50kg for people, food, clothes and everything else. I am currently trying to get it uprated to 4250kg, fingers crossed.
My point is the motorhome could never have been at 3500kg at any point therefore it would never have sold. The previous owners were obviously travelling overweight.

 

[nabsim]

That’s a complete abdication of your own responsibility.

Surely EVERYONE should be aware that if they fancied buying, for example, a 200hp motorcycle (or JCB, etc) that they’d need to ensure that they held an appropriate licence for the vehicle. Motorhomes are no different and it’s not clear to me why anyone would assume that they could drive a 4 tonne MH away without ensuring that they had the required licence classification or that the salesperson should be compelled to assume that they’re dealing with someone without a clue.

Ian

Know what you mean but not really the same issues here. If you buy a 125cc motorcycle new you are fairly certain that it won’t be a 150cc. The way some dealers are they will add extras they can talk you into which make it impossible to keep a 3500kg van in its permitted weight without explaining.

More Sharp practices involved with motorhomes I think. May fall foul of ‘fit for purpose’ but I don’t know enough about the legal system to know.

 

[pxh38257]

Weighed my motorhome with no water half tank of fuel son in passenger seat instead of wife and no dog and found I was 60kg over my max weight limit. Drove home emptied the motorhome of just about everything I could and re-weighed it. The manufacturers plate said it should weigh 3135kg and it weighed 3265kgs with nobody in. Our max weight was 3700kgs so currently having it increased to 3850kgs. During this process I spoke to the DVSA and was told last year 80% of motorhomes weighed at the side of the road were found to be over the max weight limit. I then spoke to somebody who said that his was well over the max weight limit but he normally towed a small car so when doing that he was under the max load and thought that OK? Like most people on here I want to make sure my brakes, steering and suspension work as intended and if this means I have to leave something at home so be it.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Minxy]

if this means I have to leave something at home so be it.

Son, dog .... or wife?

 

[bigtwin]

We're not talking about people not knowing which licence they need, rather people being deceived about a vehicle that should be within their 3500 licence but will fail to meet that weight even with the lightest of loading.

Agreed, my comment, erroneously, related to a wider issue than that you raised; apologies.

Ian

 

[Folkranger]

Weighed my motorhome with no water half tank of fuel son in passenger seat instead of wife and no dog and found I was 60kg over my max weight limit. Drove home emptied the motorhome of just about everything I could and re-weighed it. The manufacturers plate said it should weigh 3135kg and it weighed 3265kgs with nobody in. Our max weight was 3700kgs so currently having it increased to 3850kgs. During this process I spoke to the DVSA and was told last year 80% of motorhomes weighed at the side of the road were found to be over the max weight limit. I then spoke to somebody who said that his was well over the max weight limit but he normally towed a small car so when doing that he was under the max load and thought that OK? Like most people on here I want to make sure my brakes, steering and suspension work as intended and if this means I have to leave something at home so be it.

The manufacturer (converter) is allowed a +/- 5% tolerance on the MIRO which means that a 3000kg MIRO could actually weigh 3150kg. Some manufacturers aim for this extra weight, knowing that with modern materials and mfg methods they really don't need anything near this tolerance. Then on top of that there are extras added to the motorhome that conveniently get ignored by the sellers when stating payloads. Don't be surprised if a 3135kg plated motorhome actually weighs over 3300kg. If it has an awning, bike rack, air suspension, self levelling, solar panels etc. it could weigh a lot more.

 

[Lenny HB]

The manufacturer (converter) is allowed a +/- 5% tolerance on the MIRO which means that a 3000kg MIRO could actually weigh 3150kg. Some manufacturers aim for this extra weight, knowing that with modern materials and mfg methods they really don't need anything near this tolerance

Carthago's are nearly always 130kg over where as Hymer's are normally spot on.

 

[andyelbac]

This is an interesting area of law and one I would imagine has yet to be tested in court. Most people are aware of the term 'Buyer Beware', which ostensibly puts the burden on the buyer to check that what they are purchasing is as described. However, the issue of a MH dealer selling you a vehicle he knows you cannot drive may put a different slant on it if going to Court. I think the key would be whether the Dealer sold you a vehicle knowing your licence did not cover you. There is the concept in Law of expert responsibility. An example: you employ a plumber to install all the copper pipework in your self build home. You want as small dia. pipes as possible to keep the cost down, but you also want five bathrooms requiring a lot of water to be moved, potentially at the same time. The plumber decides "it's his money, he can have what he wants" even though he knows, as an expert in plumbing, that the pipes are too small. If he doesn't make the client aware that this won't work, he can be liable for any issues. However, if he makes the client aware, and the client insists on going ahead, his liability is zero. If I was a Dealer having sold the MH knowing they couldn't drive it and not said anything, I should be concerned about any potential legal action. Of course, actually proving the liability would likely be the hardest part.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pxh38257]

Son, dog .... or wife?

Dogs always happy to see me so I will keep her with me.

 

[cyberyacht]

A chap up the road from me has recently bought a Marquis Majestic 250. Being curious I looked up the spec. 7.4M end island bed, no doubt with big storage space under. Plated at 3500Kg with a payload of 395Kg for four people. That isn't going to work at 3500Kg.