Payload - Important or Not, do we need a law to ensure all vans sold MUST be weighed at time of sale?

[mitzimad]

there's too many conflicting rules already my van is plated at 3500 .If i pay svtech money i can go to 4000 kg but then it would not be compliant for the low emission zone we live in .So if i was fined for being over weight it wouldn't be a safety issue, it wouldnt be evading revenue as i pay more duty on 3500 than i would on 4000kg ,so my fine would be for what ?

 

[Ivory55]

It’s like any law in this country there are so many sub sections etc so that they can interpret the law to suit their needs. Nothing is ever black and white in the Uk

 

[596]

It would interesting to see if anyone on the forum has DOWN PLATED and if so why, I also wonder what percentage of SVTech customers down plate rather than up plate?

I can only think of 3 things:
- Can drive on a normal driving licence without C1 classification
- Can enter London Low Emission Zones
- Can drive it if aged over 70yrs without a medical

Anything else I missed?

 

[Lenny HB]

I also wonder what percentage of SVTech customers down plate rather than up plate?

I would expect none as it is an easy DIY exercise.

 

[Ivory55]

It would interesting to see if anyone on the forum has DOWN PLATED and if so why, I also wonder what percentage of SVTech customers down plate rather than up plate?

I can only think of 3 things:
- Can drive on a normal driving licence without C1 classification
- Can enter London Low Emission Zones
- Can drive it if aged over 70yrs without a medical

Anything else I missed?

Vw Alan só he can tow a 5th wheel outfit

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[thebriars]

It’s like any law in this country there are so many sub sections etc so that they can interpret the law to suit their needs. Nothing is ever black and white in the Uk

Zebra crossings?

 

[Ivory55]

You extra points if you get a hit on a zebra crossing. Haha

 

[596]

Do you not need to stop at Zebra crossing if you are overloaded? I guess that makes sense as it would make your discs hot and the brake dust could be dangerous to the Zebras

 

[pandas]

pandas You are completely miss understanding the difference between commercial and private vehicles. The fines are there to discourage unscrupulous traders from overloading their vans and trucks for commercial gain over responsible businesses that operate with the law.

Crazylegs I think you misunderstand the point I am making - if people with overloaded Motorhome were to be fined it maybe help Focus their and others minds and would need to be more responsible.

 

[Ivory55]

If fines is such a good idea why don’t they fine illegal immigrants to focus their minds on the fact what they are doing is wrong ?

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[596]

If fines is such a good idea why don’t they fine illegal immigrants to focus their minds on the fact what they are doing is wrong ?

You would need to clarify the weight limit of the boat first, I don't know if they do but some do look rather over crowded.

 

[Ivory55]

That’s the first fine no plimsol line on the side to show weight .

 

[tonyidle]

A bit like someone who doesn't want to spend the money to buy a van that is safe and will carry what they want within the vans capabilities, I don't see any difference between an overloaded motorhome with camping gear in and a commercial van with rubble in, if what you have aboard is over the manufacturers stated weight and that of the axles then you are a risk to other road users, what is there not to understand about that? I don't think your brakes can differentiate between commercial and non commercial load, or your suspension collapses, if they fail they fail, I would think commercial would be less of a fine as its just you and rubble and whatever you hit, with a motorhome you could kill all 4 or 6 occupants AND whatever you hit, what is more important life or money?

Before any smart people have a go at me I have never exceeded my vans manufacturers weight limit, and now I want to carry more weight I am paying out for a van that is capable of what I need, maybe I should save £70k and just pile everything and the grandkids in mine and go over the manufacturers weight limit because they are not commercial, is that what you are saying?

In extremis you are correct. Most motorhomes that run minimally over-weight are still well within the chassis, axle, and brakes design limits. You can exaggerate to make your point but what you describe is not in general what is happening. 3.5K motorhomes are very often built on chassis assemblies capable of 3.85K or, in a limited number of cases, 4.5K. They are plated at 3.5K to avoid the need for a C1 licence and not because an extra 100Kg is going to make them unsafe. Like you I don't condone running over weight and I don't do it myself. Except perhaps on the trip to a weighbridge. But please don't over-egg the dangers.

 

[Larrynwin]

A bit like someone who doesn't want to spend the money to buy a van that is safe and will carry what they want within the vans capabilities, I don't see any difference between an overloaded motorhome with camping gear in and a commercial van with rubble in, if what you have aboard is over the manufacturers stated weight and that of the axles then you are a risk to other road users, what is there not to understand about that? I don't think your brakes can differentiate between commercial and non commercial load, or your suspension collapses, if they fail they fail, I would think commercial would be less of a fine as its just you and rubble and whatever you hit, with a motorhome you could kill all 4 or 6 occupants AND whatever you hit, what is more important life or money?

Before any smart people have a go at me I have never exceeded my vans manufacturers weight limit, and now I want to carry more weight I am paying out for a van that is capable of what I need, maybe I should save £70k and just pile everything and the grandkids in mine and go over the manufacturers weight limit because they are not commercial, is that what you are saying?

Many vans have been downrated to 3500kgs to meet demand from those with licence limitations and being over that weight but not the original plated weight would no doubt be safe although liable to driver prosecution .

 

[gus-lopez]

there's too many conflicting rules already my van is plated at 3500 .If i pay svtech money i can go to 4000 kg but then it would not be compliant for the low emission zone we live in .So if i was fined for being over weight it wouldn't be a safety issue, it wouldnt be evading revenue as i pay more duty on 3500 than i would on 4000kg ,so my fine would be for what ?

Fines far cheaper overweight than being illegal in the LEZ.

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[thebriars]

In extremis you are correct. Most motorhomes that run minimally over-weight are still well within the chassis, axle, and brakes design limits. You can exaggerate to make your point but what you describe is not in general what is happening. 3.5K motorhomes are very often built on chassis assemblies capable of 3.85K or, in a limited number of cases, 4.5K. They are plated at 3.5K to avoid the need for a C1 licence and not because an extra 100Kg is going to make them unsafe. Like you I don't condone running over weight and I don't do it myself. Except perhaps on the trip to a weighbridge. But please don't over-egg the dangers.

Just checked my Ford Benimar, while currently plated at 3500kg, this could be increased to 4250kg. This would give a payload of 1200kg, however within that would need to be the requirement to keep each axle within its permitted weight allowance.

 

[596]

Just checked my Ford Benimar, while currently plated at 3500kg, this could be increased to 4250kg. This would give a payload of 1200kg, however within that would need to be the requirement to keep each axle within its permitted weight allowance.

Can you do that on a paper exercise or does that top weight require air bags?

 

[addoaddo]

One of the main reasons that commercial vans are under 3.5t is so that they do not need tacos. Fine for being over weight are the same for the driver if it is a motorhome or commercial. However if a commercial van is over weight they go after the company as well. If they run hgv they could lose their operators license

 

[Crazylegs]

 

[Crazylegs]

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[thebriars]

Can you do that on a paper exercise or does that top weight require air bags?

Paper exercise. Figures from the Certificate of Conformity.

 

[PeteH]

Fines far cheaper overweight than being illegal in the LEZ.

Which IMV makes a mockery of the System. A Far better solution would be to raise the bar on B-B1 licence use up to (say) 4t.

 

[JJ]

I tend not to let these matters weigh on my mind.

JJ

 

[Ivory55]

Which IMV makes a mockery of the System. A Far better solution would be to raise the bar on B-B1 licence use up to (say) 4t.

But then the comercial drivers would want the same, but they cannot as it’s eu law so that’s what they have to do.

 

[Larrynwin]

But then the comercial drivers would want the same, but they cannot as it’s eu law so that’s what they have to do.

The same issues don’t arise. In most cases commercial vehicles are empty and close to MIRO before loading whereas motorhomes have the habitation area constructed which on the base chassis used leaves little left for additional payload.
Although unlikely to change the simplest route as suggested earlier would be to raise the base licence allowance to a more practical level , possibly 3850 or 4000 kgs bearing in mind the weight of base chassis and habitation construction is as low as sensibly possible .

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[Ivory55]

But if they raise it to 4 ton for a motorhome human nature dictates why can they drive 4ton without a license yet a van driver can only go up to 3.5 without extra license. As said it’s eu law anyway so no way out.

 

[Larrynwin]

But if they raise it to 4 ton for a motorhome human nature dictates why can they drive 4ton without a license yet a van driver can only go up to 3.5 without extra license. As said it’s eu law anyway so no way out.

If a van driver wishes to drive a motorhome he can, but a separation of commercial and domestic use is not unreasonable or unusual.

 

[pandas]

There is so much chatter on this important subject related to what you can and cannot do/ legal or not legal/ fine or no fine/dangerous or not, invalidate insurance or not. It is difficult to differentiate between ‘informed’ or not so well informed comments.
Rather than worry about ways of getting around this important aspect somehow or other why don’t we simply accept the details on the plate that’s in attached to the bodywork specifically for that vehicle. Overloading a vehicle beyond the plate may or may not be influenced by any of the points made earlier. Not an engineer but common sense says putting additional load on the vehicle beyond the plate will influence the driving characteristics of the vehicle as it’s beyond what the ‘experts’ have defined. As would driving too fast or bald tires, under the influence etc and therefore until the there is an alternative system why don’t we just get on with it.

 

[tonyidle]

Overloading a vehicle beyond the plate may or may not be influenced by any of the points made earlier. Not an engineer but common sense says putting additional load on the vehicle beyond the plate will influence the driving characteristics of the vehicle as it’s beyond what the ‘experts’ have defined.

See post 103.

 

[596]

But if they raise it to 4 ton for a motorhome human nature dictates why can they drive 4ton without a license yet a van driver can only go up to 3.5 without extra license. As said it’s eu law anyway so no way out.

Will be fine after the 31st October

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