Overheating Ducato brakes

Pausim said:
I recall reading somewhere that overheating brakes are better cooled by continuing to drive gently but not stopping. Obviously if the brakes have stopped working driving is not an option. Am I dreaming this? What is the official advice?
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Yes the best way is to continue gently, that way the disc's do not distort.Ducati brakes are not really upto the M/H requirements. I had the same 2 years ago even taking all precautions, i fitted new Disc's and pads (genuine ) when we arrived back. Then I did what we always do exchanged it. Still on Ducati chassis
 
We overheated the brakes on our Ducato several times before I realised that the standard Fiat wheel trims block 50% of the cooling holes in the wheel. We removed the wheel trims and replaced them with the little Hubcap that just covers the centre of the wheel leaving all of the cooling holes open. No further problem.

When I first removed the wheel trims I left one of the trims on one of the rear wheels to see if I could quantify the difference with wheel trim on or off. We have tire pressure monitoring which also measures temperature and even driving along the motorway without using brakes the tyre on the wheel with the trim fitted runs warmer than the one without. Funny, you don't see many lorries with fancy wheel trims. Now I know why.

We also have a VW LT which has chrome wheel trims which have also caused brakes to overheat. Having recognised the problem on the Fiat we removed the wheel trims on the LT and the problem went away on there as well.
 
Bartyfixedit said:
We overheated the brakes on our Ducato several times before I realised that the standard Fiat wheel trims block 50% of the cooling holes in the wheel. We removed the wheel trims and replaced them with the little Hubcap that just covers the centre of the wheel leaving all of the cooling holes open. No further problem.

When I first removed the wheel trims I left one of the trims on one of the rear wheels to see if I could quantify the difference with wheel trim on or off. We have tire pressure monitoring which also measures temperature and even driving along the motorway without using brakes the tyre on the wheel with the trim fitted runs warmer than the one without. Funny, you don't see many lorries with fancy wheel trims. Now I know why.

We also have a VW LT which has chrome wheel trims which have also caused brakes to overheat. Having recognised the problem on the Fiat we removed the wheel trims on the LT and the problem went away on there as well.
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I took mine off and replaced the full size stupid plastic caps with the mini caps because I got fed up taking them off every time I wanted to check the tyre pressure. But I see I have also helped with brake cooling thanks to your tests.
I notice a lot of european Van's have just the mini caps on.
It's worth noting you dont have to take to take the wheels off to fit the mini hub caps as they have a hole that allows one hub cap bolt to be left on whilst retrofitting.

So on my next van I will do the same immediately as well as replacing the bloody awful gearbox oil FIAT put in their gearbox with fully synthetic.
 
Did the same thing on the same pass last summer. Stopped let them cool all ok after a cup of tea.
Hand brake was also slack but eventually went back to normal, almost.
No amount of engine braking going down this pass helps. it's steep and even in second gear your speed is to excessive for some of the bends and the pistons try to climb out of the head. Brakes are still needed, other traffic in front don't help either.

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Southdowners said:
I doubt there was anything wrong with your technique.

We had the same problem with our brakes overheating last year. We were in Norway going down a very long and steep descent using gears and brakes. We were flagged over by another motorist as there was smoke pouring out of one side at the rear.

We had the brakes checked before proceeding... there was nothing wrong with them, which was a surprise. We always stop to allow cooling now.
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Yes , we had ours checked too!
 
addoaddo said:
If brakes overheat you should if possible keep going to allow them to cool down evenly. If you stop the discs can be damaged.

This is easy to say in theory but in practice who would want to drive with non working brakes.

If possible just moving forward 6" every few minuets will help as this would change the position of the pads relative to the disc/drums
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Assume it’s not good to throw cold water at smoking brakes? Someone advised me to do that but I guess it might compromise the discs?
 
GrahamCardiff said:
Assume it’s not good to throw cold water at smoking brakes? Someone advised me to do that but I guess it might compromise the discs?
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Quenching vs tempering of your brake system....hmmm not sure about that. I assume they were designed to largely temper out.
 
We had very hot brakes on our new Peugeot based van weighing in at 3700kg in the Pyrenees, a few years ago. It was impossible to use engine braking effectively, even in first I needed to used the brakes, the road was very steep with hairpin bends every 100m or so for a couple of miles.
My solution was to stop four times on the way down for the brakes to cool down.
All the cyclists we overtook on the way up, shot past us on the way down.
 
I am no expert but would have thought that getting a bucket of water to quench the disc evenly whilst attached to the vehicle would be impossible. Again no expert but uneven quenching sounds like a recipe for distortion and other nasty consequences. Did the advice come from an eager brake salesman? :)

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When driving your vehicle, your brake pads can reach extremely high temperatures and this heat is then passed onto the brake fluid which can raise the fluid temperature to over 200°C. When the fluid gets too hot, small air bubbles start to form as it begins to boil and because air is more compressible than fluid,
 
tribalbrit said:
Did the same thing on the same pass last summer. Stopped let them cool all ok after a cup of tea.
Hand brake was also slack but eventually went back to normal, almost.
No amount of engine braking going down this pass helps. it's steep and even in second gear your speed is to excessive for some of the bends and the pistons try to climb out of the head. Brakes are still needed, other traffic in front don't help either.
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That means you need to go down on first gear. And even then you'll probably need the brakes, but much less.
 
busby said:
Dont get them hot in the first place..Low gear and hardly use your brakes.We didn't hardly have any brakes on trucks pre 1970 but managed ok.BUSBY.
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Not always☹️

When I was a lad we lived in Milnrow near Rochdale which is at the foot of two roads that were then major routes from Yorkshire into Lancashire, both with relatively steep and longish descents. It was a regular occurrence for tippers carrying coal to go off the road due to failed brakes.....or it could have been due to the practices of tipper drivers?
 
matamoros said:
Not always☹

When I was a lad we lived in Milnrow near Rochdale which is at the foot of two roads that were then major routes from Yorkshire into Lancashire, both with relatively steep and longish descents. It was a regular occurrence for tippers carrying coal to go off the road due to failed brakes.....or it could have been due to the practices of tipper drivers?
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Brake fade or no air..BUSBY.
 
busby said:
Brake fade or no air..BUSBY.
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Local paper didn't go into details but I would suspect brake fade as I don't think even tipper drivers would knock it out of stock going down those hills and the engine revs should have been enough to keep the air up.

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matamoros said:
Local paper didn't go into details but I would suspect brake fade as I don't think even tipper drivers would knock it out of stock going down those hills and the engine revs should have been enough to keep the air up.
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First time I drove a truck with air brakes back in mid 60s I lost the air using them too much..Flag came up on dash to warn me but no spring brakes back then so it was a bit squeaky bum time until I built the air up..You live and learn.BUSBY.
 
We have also suffered brake overheat on steep mountain descents. Stopping for a break is the only way. When I replaced the front discs I discovered it had been fitted, from new, with 1400 & not the 1800 it should have.
1800 discs are bigger & thicker. But I’m stuck with it now.

Putting water on hot discs will probably warp them.
 
Pausim said:
I recall reading somewhere that overheating brakes are better cooled by continuing to drive gently but not stopping. Obviously if the brakes have stopped working driving is not an option. Am I dreaming this? What is the official advice?
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Not dreaming, brakes cool better if vehicle is moving
 
Many "high performance" vehicles have ducted air to the Brakes. Brake fade can be, as Busby described it, A "squeaky bum" job!. AS can Boiling the Brake fluid on a downhill in a 9 ton R-V!. The final stop being acheived by the tyres scrubbing the last mph off in a bus bay!:eek:!. When said fluid cooled we found a CL, and I got NEW fluid from Halfords. Then spent several hours under the R-V with SWMBO pumping brakes until I got a full fluid change!!. And that fluid had only been changed a year before!. It`s something to be aware of, especially in cases where the vehicle is left for long periods unused.
 
I guess this is a problem on the light chassis, we've had 2 ducatos on the maxi chassis and never had an issue.

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jezport said:
I guess this is a problem on the light chassis, we've had 2 ducatos on the maxi chassis and never had an issue.
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When descending steep hills in low gear don't be embarased
because you are holding cars up behind you,,keep it steady in a low gear,,don't let engine over rev,,and just use brakes gently now and again..Should not have any problems.BUSBY.
 
busby said:
When descending steep hills in low gear don't be embarased
because you are holding cars up behind you,,keep it steady in a low gear,,don't let engine over rev,,and just use brakes gently now and again..Should not have any problems.BUSBY.
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EXACTLY!
 
That’s why lorries are fitted with exhaust retarders, slowly does it on, off, on, off, and you will live to drive another day, bugger the ones behind you it’s you and your family’s lives that count
 
Vipar said:
That’s why lorries are fitted with exhaust retarders, slowly does it on, off, on, off, and you will live to drive another day, bugger the ones behind you it’s you and your family’s lives that count
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I do that and pull over whenever there is a place to do so on the side of the road, let the queue pass and start again.
 
Yes, I could never understand why the "up" lanes had a "crawler" lane. Yet the "down" side rarely did?. Just the occasional run off into the gravel for brake failures!.

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It's good to note that a couple of people have mentioned old brake fluid. After a time, brake fluid absorbs water and this is what can heat quicker than the brake fluid, even to the extent of boiling.
If you haven't changed yours lately, do it now and use fresh, unopened can of good quality fluid!
 
busby said:
When descending steep hills in low gear don't be embarased
because you are holding cars up behind you,,keep it steady in a low gear,,don't let engine over rev,,and just use brakes gently now and again..Should not have any problems.BUSBY.
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Good qoute also ideal time to open waste water valve:reel:
 
GrahamCardiff said:
We’ve just completed the Grossglockner pass - as expected, the brakes overheated
and we stopped to let them cool down . But the handbrake wouldn’t grip at all, and we had to use reverse gear as the handbrake instead. Is this a common problem with a Ducato based chassis unit? Ours is a PVC of around 3.5 tonnes.
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Hi, we have a 2017 Burstner on a Ducato Chassis. At 22,400 miles the front disks needed changing and new pads all round. After they were fitted, the smell of brakes was quite strong and there was a sound coming from the brakes when moving, and the wheels were covered in black brake dust. The disks were getting very hot just on a 4 mile drive back from the garage. It seems a fairly common problem with the Ducato, it is as if the calipers are not releasing properly.
 
You didn't have much power on trucks pre 1970 so didn't need brakes

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