If it is the head gasket, my bet would be that the disconnection of the heat exchanger hose and loss of coolant has something to do with it. You can't blame Fiat for that. They fit the connection if that feature is ordered, but it is the converter who opens it up and installs their equipment to it.
Our new motorhome is getting us really stressed
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Is that good or bad I can see a discussion about whether the cost is borne by Fiat or Adria or the dealer or the owner
Minxy
LIFE MEMBER
- Aug 22, 2007
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The contract is with the dealer who they bought it from so the dealer is responsible AFAIK who can then pursue whoever they want to get their dosh back, but that's not the owner's worry.
Grianan
LIFE MEMBER
When I bought my brand new Mini Countryman it was crunching everything I went into reverse. After a week of thinking it was just me I took it in and to Mini who said it was a faulty gearbox. It was approaching Christmas so off the road for a month.
Shortly after it was fixed it developed an oil leak on the motorway and had to be towed away. It seems they had knocked a fuel pipe when replacing the gearbox.
Later that year it developed an EGR fault and went into limp mode. Mini sent a mobile unit to replace the valve.
By this time I was fed up to the back teeth and wanted rid of it.
3 years on, I’m glad I kept it. I think I was unlucky, but none of the issues were unfixable. I’m not replacing it until there’s an electric or hybrid alternative that makes sense for me. If I had to I’d find it hard not to choose the same again.
For what it’s worth, although it’s a real pain just now, I think and hope you will get the mechanical issues sorted quickly and you can move on ...
Shortly after it was fixed it developed an oil leak on the motorway and had to be towed away. It seems they had knocked a fuel pipe when replacing the gearbox.
Later that year it developed an EGR fault and went into limp mode. Mini sent a mobile unit to replace the valve.
By this time I was fed up to the back teeth and wanted rid of it.
3 years on, I’m glad I kept it. I think I was unlucky, but none of the issues were unfixable. I’m not replacing it until there’s an electric or hybrid alternative that makes sense for me. If I had to I’d find it hard not to choose the same again.
For what it’s worth, although it’s a real pain just now, I think and hope you will get the mechanical issues sorted quickly and you can move on ...
Quite agree with your comments.
Seems to be alot of people around who want to reject their purchases for not life threatening reasons, Get on and enjoy life!
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stevel2
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Interesting comments. You both somehow think that having suffered two major failures in 1500 miles on a new motorhome that cost over £100k is just one of those things. Tell me what part of acceptable you think that is.
It seems to me that too manufacturers and their dealers, who having designed, marketed and sold their motorhomes, are far too complacent about what happens post sale. There are far too many customers who’ve posted about problems and had dreadful responses.
When you’ve spent so much of your hard earned it is completely unacceptable to expect problems like this and see it as the norm. If you’d spent this money on an Audi, BMW or Mercedes I doubt very much you’d feel like you apparently do. So why should it be accepted with a motorhome.
Our motorhome is going to be off the road for a further 2 weeks because of a stupid production error
It seems to me that too manufacturers and their dealers, who having designed, marketed and sold their motorhomes, are far too complacent about what happens post sale. There are far too many customers who’ve posted about problems and had dreadful responses.
When you’ve spent so much of your hard earned it is completely unacceptable to expect problems like this and see it as the norm. If you’d spent this money on an Audi, BMW or Mercedes I doubt very much you’d feel like you apparently do. So why should it be accepted with a motorhome.
Our motorhome is going to be off the road for a further 2 weeks because of a stupid production error
MichaelT
LIFE MEMBER
I do not think anyone is making light of this however one important thing to look at is it is not the MH makers fault if the engine is faulty its the base vehicle maker in your case Fiat and your warranty wil be with Fiat which is stated in your documents. We are saying don't cut your nose off to spite your face, give them a chance to repair it as you must under law then see what happens, to simply reject your van would leave you without any van at all and trying to get a new one, hopefully Fiat will find the issue and repair it and you will be happy for many years to come. From your comments it looks like they are now on the case, what is the problem do you know?
And to be honest all makes have production errors including BMW, Mercedes etc.
In apologise if I have missed it but have they diagnosed what the problem is?
I also contacted the CMC legal dept when we had trouble with our caravan. They advised me that a caravan was a motor vehicle, and as such there was a difference in the way the CRA handles things. My solicitor put me right here, a caravan is NOT a motor vehicle. I would not trust anything the CMC legal team say again.
My cowboy dealer certainly did not accept my right to reject and fought it by refusing to have any contact whatsoever with us. However, using a decent solicitor we did get it rejected.
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stevel2
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We’ve only found out this afternoon that they have diagnosed core plug failure. As I understand it this is the last bit to be done to the engine as it comes off the production line. The core plugs get knocked in to fill the hole that supported the block during production.
Requires parts to be sent from Italy and then the engine to be removed for the repair.
The only fortunate part of this is that we have a very caring dealer who has basically said for us to take anything off their forecourt so that we can at least go on holiday. They obviously don’t have to do this but it’s brilliant that they have. Big up to Dinmore Leisure near Leominster.
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Great news that they are getting it sorted and are willing to let you have a temporary van off the forecourt. I know it wont be yours but try to get away and have a break yours will be soon be back with you and hopefully you can fall back in love with it again as iI did when mine came back
TerryL
LIFE MEMBER
Big up there for the dealer - looks like it's getting sorted and the fault was fairly simple,although not to fix by the sound of it.
Now go out and get rid of the stress.
Now go out and get rid of the stress.
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stevel2
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The problem seems to be core plug failure. A stupid production error. Whilst this failure is obviously a Fiat issue the converter Adria, in this case, choose who to partner with. It may be a very rare problem but the stress this week has been enormous.
But the first major failure was most certainly Adria.
I actually don’t recall saying we wanted to reject the vehicle but contacted CAMC legal to check what our position would be. It would have been a hugely difficult decision if we felt that was what we had to do. In any case the legal made the point in law. Which was interesting in itself.
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I thought it was an oil leak? Core plugs are inserts to prevent the engine block cracking in the event of it freezing up & on the water side.
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stevel2
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Here what you’re saying. I don’t know how they’ve come to this conclusion. They said oil is present through the plug after about 15mins running. The engine hasn’t been removed yet so may be more to learn?
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Core plugs are designed to fail first to protect the block. They are much cheaper than a new engine. Instead of blaming Fiat, I'm still leaning towards your heat exchanger issue and loss of coolant as being implicated in this. It is too much of a coincidence. If that is the case, Fiat's design may have saved you from far worse!
- Feb 24, 2013
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pleased to hear you are making progress
you must have bought the most expensive Adria ever sold
was problem no.1 easily resolved in the end ?
hope all will now come out in the wash and soon put behind you
?
edit - just been nosy and googled Adria models, have you got one of the sonic supremes, looks very nice, the wait will be worth it
you must have bought the most expensive Adria ever sold
was problem no.1 easily resolved in the end ?
hope all will now come out in the wash and soon put behind you
?edit - just been nosy and googled Adria models, have you got one of the sonic supremes, looks very nice, the wait will be worth it
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stevel2
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Yes it is. The dealer had spec'd a few extras such as engine upgrade, air suspension, air conditioning etc. which is why fell in love with it. hope we can fall in love with it again.pleased to hear you are making progress
you must have bought the most expensive Adria ever sold
was problem no.1 easily resolved in the end ?
hope all will now come out in the wash and soon put behind you
edit - just been nosy and googled Adria models, have you got one of the sonic supremes, looks very nice, the wait will be worth it
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stevel2
Free Member
In many ways I hope you're not right. The moment the hose blew I got the engine switched off. That happened at about 200 miles. After the fix it ran for 1300 miles with me checking water and oil fluid levels frequently. All seemed OK until Wednesday morning when I took it out of storage ahead of our hols. And the mayhem began.
If it were as you think would there likely be other problems down the line?
Silver-Fox
LIFE MEMBER
If your getting oil through a popped core plug.
I’m afraid to say you’ve got bigger issues there imho
I’m afraid to say you’ve got bigger issues there imho
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Badknee
LIFE MEMBER
I haven’t got any idea on oil issues but it seems you have had two water issues. Could high pressure have popped the hose off? Could it have popped the core plug out? But then where the hell does oil get involved?
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Deneb is spot on!
The Core plugs are designed like a fuse is set up for electrical failure to blow and save a circuit ahead of it. The core plug will be the weakest part of the cooling system and is designed to blow when an engine A) pressurises B) Overheats due to head gasket faults
The fact that the heater circuitry failed earlier states one of two things..1) The system was not free of air when the coolant was filled up.
2) The head gasket has gone and has allowed the system to pressurise the coolant system and thus...blows out the heater core pipework first then the core plug to save full failure.
How do I know this...Worked on some of the biggest engines that are about for Caterpillar for 20 years and travelled up and down the country as one of their Field Service technicians and many a time a core plug would blow because of head gasket failure or coolant pressurisation because of a air block or debris from when the engine was built and the Block was insufficiently cleaned out before its build.
Hopefully the fiat dealer will repair under load conditions ( Test bed and run up on a Dynamometer beyond normal operating conditions) ..then refit and all will be ok.
It sounds like the job is being sorted anyway.
Kev
The Core plugs are designed like a fuse is set up for electrical failure to blow and save a circuit ahead of it. The core plug will be the weakest part of the cooling system and is designed to blow when an engine A) pressurises B) Overheats due to head gasket faults
The fact that the heater circuitry failed earlier states one of two things..1) The system was not free of air when the coolant was filled up.
2) The head gasket has gone and has allowed the system to pressurise the coolant system and thus...blows out the heater core pipework first then the core plug to save full failure.
How do I know this...Worked on some of the biggest engines that are about for Caterpillar for 20 years and travelled up and down the country as one of their Field Service technicians and many a time a core plug would blow because of head gasket failure or coolant pressurisation because of a air block or debris from when the engine was built and the Block was insufficiently cleaned out before its build.
Hopefully the fiat dealer will repair under load conditions ( Test bed and run up on a Dynamometer beyond normal operating conditions) ..then refit and all will be ok.
It sounds like the job is being sorted anyway.
Kev
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stevel2
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I can fairly safely say that the original hose problem wasn't down to excessive pressure. Whilst the hose had been put onto the heater matrix spigot the retaining clip was put on about 75mm from the end of the hose. Should have been 15mm from the hose.I haven’t got any idea on oil issues but it seems you have had two water issues. Could high pressure have popped the hose off? Could it have popped the core plug out? But then where the hell does oil get involved?
The garage had said that they thought the oil leak was from the turbo oil return pipe I think. This made sense to me but they changed that this afternoon.
Without knowing what the cause is, impossible to say. But two issues in fairly close succession related to the cooling system and possibly excessive pressure, for whatever reason, on a virtually new vehicle seems to be more than a coincidence IMO.
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stevel2
Free Member
Thanks Kev. Great explanation. I'd not heard about core plugs before. Just taking explanation from the Fiat Commercial dealer. Do you think I should mention the previous issue to them?
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I'm learning from this thread.
Hope it all gets sorted asap.
Please keep us up todate re the outcome.
Have a great break and try to relax.
Hope it all gets sorted asap.
Please keep us up todate re the outcome.
Have a great break and try to relax.
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stevel2
Free Member
If the head gasket had gone would it not be noticed with the exhaust?
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Most certainly Steve.
Like most things the more they can have History wise...the more helpful it would be to them.
Kev
- Feb 2, 2015
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The head gasket can be blowing Steve but the exhaust would only show when it was throwing high pressure steam /water out of it. In your case ..it sounds most possibly due to a couple of things with what you have already mentioned regarding oil lines from the turbo etc.
Contact them and just advise them regarding the problem beforehand and hopefully..it will be sorted without issues.
Its on the mend so that is a good thing.
Kev
Contact them and just advise them regarding the problem beforehand and hopefully..it will be sorted without issues.
Its on the mend so that is a good thing.
Kev
Grianan
LIFE MEMBER
If I said it was acceptable then I apologise. I certainly didn’t think I had.
To me, my mini countryman was a huge expenditure ... I’ll never have the money for a 100k motorhome so I found it equally unacceptable for my car to have serious mechanical problems in a similar mileage. Value is relative to one’s means.
The point I was trying to make was that some problems can get fixed ... and in my case they did, and in the long run the outcome was satisfactory. To me.
If you’ve decided that rejecting is the way you wish to go then I wish you luck and a speedy resolution
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