Now we HAVE to downsize...

[Peppadog]

I'd slow down on downsizing now if I were you and check what weight you actually load it to. Then see if you can get to 3500kg. If so, get it downplated. Much cheaper than changing your van.
Also, the EU are apparently very likely to up the 3500kg limit to 4250 when they can get it through. As the UK gov. only went for the 3500 rule, in 97 or whenever, due to EU membership, I would bet they would switch to 4250kg's as well.

Update regarding the European legislation driving license B!

Will you soon be able to drive a 4,250kg motorhome with an ordinary car license? Read more information in the Vanomobl blog below.

vanomobil.be

 

[Clive Beeza]

I am in a similar boat to you but I have not had the knock back. Sent the forms off on 23rd October then nothing for 3 weeks. Two letters arrived, one asking if I had any of a list of things such as MS etc. The other letter was saying they were writing to my GP. My D4 medical was with D4D. A week later a call from the doctors about the form and an appointment on the 2nd December to sort it. They promised to post it to DVLA that day. A letter dated 11th December arrived today to say they had not had the letter back from my GP. I know that the letter was posted as I trust them. Phoned DVLA and eventually got through to be told that they had received my GP's letter and it was scanned onto the system last Friday. It seems to take them about 6 working days to open mail and process. Now waiting for the Dr to review and process. Not really fit for purpose.

You are quite correct the DVLA criteria for incoming letters
is that they allow up to 10 days for letters tombe scanned onto their
internal system

 

[Clive Beeza]

I had stents put in about 3 years ago but I’m not aware of any subsequent negative consequences. It seems odd to me that the DVLA pay private rates for a consultant to oversee a test, and then employee a doctor themselves to second-guess the consultant who probably knows a patient’s relevant history.

As someone once said: “Time’s short. Keep moving”.

If the consequences were not so dire for the applicant
it would make a good sketch in a farce

 

[BattyBurke#1]

Just lost my C1 with a failed stress test. I'd been down the up-plating route to take my Hymer from 3850kg up to 4090kg as I carry much 'junk'.
Took all the personal possessions out, tools, spare wheel, ramps etc - everything loose basically. Trip to the weighbridge gave me a ticket with 3100kg stamped on it.
I tow a trailer with a car on it for most trips and have 165kg spare capacity on the trailer's plated weight, so will just transfer spare wheel, tools, ramps and everything else from the motorhome to the trailer. I have just ditched 70kg's worth of Gel batteries and replaced with lithium and have saved another 40kg taking it to 3060kg.
Down-plating is a simple excersise of just sending the V5 off I think, so I'll drop it to 3500kg.
Have to be careful what I carry from now on and might be forced to lose a few kg myself !.
Whist originally quite cross at losing by C1 entitlement, it did prompt me to see my doctor for the first time in years which resulted in a course of statins and likely saved me from a serious and maybe fatal heart condition down the line, so on reflection it wasn't all bad.
The moho's VED will increase from £165 but hey! the motorhome which took me months to find will still be on my drive.

You do know that statins are more about profit than health, right. You'd think that taking them would reduce your chances of having a heart attack or stroke, but they don't do that. All they do is lower the number for total cholesterol in a lab test of a blood sample. Worse yet, Statins can cause Rhabdomyelosis, so a drug that claims to protect your heart can in fact damage your heart.

 

[The Wino]

You do know that statins are more about profit than health, right. You'd think that taking them would reduce your chances of having a heart attack or stroke, but they don't do that. All they do is lower the number for total cholesterol in a lab test of a blood sample. Worse yet, Statins can cause Rhabdomyelosis, so a drug that claims to protect your heart can in fact damage your heart.

Don't tell me it's a conspiracy and NICE and the British heart Foundation are in it as well!

NICE recommends statins should be a choice for more people to prevent heart attacks and strokes

New draft guidance from NICE has recommended that more people can be considered for statins to reduce their risk of having a heart attack or stroke

www.bhf.org.uk

If you want to believe in conspiracies at least just do it in a way that risks your own health rather than promoting it to others

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[VXman]

How about trade in to swap for a 3500 unit?

Why have you hired a car?

I wondered this - could hire a 3500kg van.

Plenty of 3500kg vans around - you don't have to go too small. Ours was 3500 when we bought it and it is 7.5 metre

 

[Pausim]

I wondered this - could hire a 3500kg van.

Plenty of 3500kg vans around - you don't have to go too small. Ours was 3500 when we bought it and it is 7.5 metre

I think the problem is not finding something registered at 3500kg but finding something that is registered at 3500kg and is
i) legal and
ii) has a useable payload.
My Carthago Compactline was the lightest new 7m motorhome I could find and I tried running it at 3500kg. I soon gave up trying and changed it to 3850kg.

 

[Hymerboy]

Why has nobody mentioned the insurance implications should you have an accident whilst driving an overweight van illegally

 

[gus-lopez]

lso, the EU are apparently very likely to up the 3500kg limit to 4250 when they can get it through.

Been passed Spain introduce it on 1st January 2025 .rest have until 2027 to comply. ev's & all campervans/motorhomes using any fuel

Don't tell me it's a conspiracy and NICE and the British heart Foundation are in it as well!

NICE recommends statins should be a choice for more people to prevent heart attacks and strokes

New draft guidance from NICE has recommended that more people can be considered for statins to reduce their risk of having a heart attack or stroke

www.bhf.org.uk

If you want to believe in conspiracies at least just do it in a way that risks your own health rather than promoting it to others

Read the book "The great cholesterol conspiracy" 2007 by Dr malcolm Kendrick,explains it all & addresses all the issues & refutes them all with facts.

 

[Millcourt]

.......
There is currently an anomoly where an you can drive an electric vehicle of up to 4250kg on a 'normal' licence but not an ICE engined one. I believe there is EU ligislation slowly going through in Brussels to increrase the weight limit on ordinary licences to 4250kg and I expect the UK will adopt this as well, but it might take a year or three.

Perhaps not really an anomaly. In 2019, the Government approved a change to driving licence legislation designed to make it easier for people to drive electric vans. The change was designed to make it easier for manufacturers to sell fully electric vans to the UK market, and easier for the end user by taking the hassle out of applying for more complex licences.

However, Category B licence holders are not automatically allowed to drive electric vehicles heavier than 3.5 tonnes. They must first complete a minimum of five hours’ training behind the wheel of such a vehicle with a registered instructor. The legislation also states that the van has to be driven for the purpose of transporting goods, only within the territory of Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales – not including Northern Ireland). You’re also not permitted to tow a trailer. Anyone caught driving an alternative fuel van with a standard Category B licence that hasn’t completed the training, or flouts any of the other rules, could be subject to a level three fine of £1,000.

I have recently done a little research into the future possible use of electric-powered vehicles for motorhomes. Of course, I may well have gotten much of this wrong, or simply misunderstood. So, I will in no way be offended if anyone better informed (thinking perhaps Gromett, Lenny HB, or others who post knowledgeably on such matters) correct or challenge anything I am saying below.

Taking as an example the Fiat Electric 4,250 kg van, the battery pack is rather heavy. There are two battery size options. With a 47 kWh battery, the van’s payload capacity is 1,060 kg; not a lot for a 3.5-ton ”delivery” van. Specify a 79 kWh battery and your capacity falls to a meagre 765 kg. All are powered by the same 90kW electric motor – equivalent to around 122hp – so they aren’t exactly fast. The smaller 47kWh battery capacity promises a WLTP driving range of 88-108 miles per charge, while the larger 79kWH battery capacity is reckoned to do 147-175 miles per charge – all depending on exact variant, load carried, speed driven etc. Using a 50kW DC rapid charger of the type found on the public charging network, it will likely take 30 minutes to add 60 miles of driving range. Currently, top speed is restricted to 62mph to maximise driving range (56mph on heavier models), and it takes around 6.0 seconds to reach 30mph. Whilst it might be expected that the running costs of electric vans will be much less than the diesel equivalent, the difference in purchase cost from the standard 3,500kg diesel to the higher 4,250kg electric model is around £2,800. I suspect it would be very naive to presume that since a huge income to Government comes from the taxation of diesel and petrol, that the longer-term shortfall will not be made up with corresponding overheads to drive electric vehicles.

Many of us in the motor-homing community would like more payload. For the present, an electric-powered van base at 4,250 kg (even if these were to converted for motorhome use, remained under the weight and permitted to be driven for such use with a B licence) does not seem to me to be a way forward. At some time things will have to change with the phasing out of diesel/electric vehicles and this will require changes to driving licence testing/authorisations. Perhaps the EU will uplift the B Licence to 4,250 kg and the UK Government will follow. However, unless the inherent weight of “alternative fuel” vehicles significantly reduces, once diesel vehicles have been phased out we will likely be back to square one with available payload for motorhomes……but this is unlikely to affect me in the remaining years I have as a Motorhomer.

Just noticed what gus-lopez posted above whilst I was typing. Sounds like very hopefully news for the near future. Fingers crossed the UK Government do the same for diesel powered vehicles.

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[Pausim]

Why has nobody mentioned the insurance implications should you have an accident whilst driving an overweight van illegally

Possibly because it is not straightforward. If driving illegally made insurance invalid then we would all be uninsured as soon as we broke a speed limit. However, if being overweight was shown to be the cause of an accident then it might become an important issue so I try very hard to stay legal and stay safe.

 

[G-RMPS]

Ditto, hence my obsession with calculating weight of everything.

Re: downplating. My Hymer at 3500kg would have around 200kg payload. Two people and half a tank of diesel would put me overweight.

 

[AGT]

Sorry to hear about the loss of your C1.

We have a Westfalia Columbus 640 PVC which is well winterised with diesel heating, underfloor heating in the living area and washroom, inboard fresh water and heated waste water. It also has heated seats and a vent under the passenger seat to warm the cab on the move. The insulation is good and there is a full length mat which hangs inside the rear doors. The only cold spot is around the sliding door.

Although Westfalia is owned by Rapido, I think that the vans are still made in Germany. Quality on ours has been fine - it’s five years old. The downsides are that the interior is a bit stark/Nordic compared with a Hymer or Globecar.

Potentially worth having a look. Roseisle in East Lothian are agents although they don’t carry any new stock.

I am in the process of uprating to 3,900 kgs. Not because I can’t run it at 3,500kgs; just that we don’t, mainly because we bring stuff back and forward to a holiday house.

 

[VXman]

I think the problem is not finding something registered at 3500kg but finding something that is registered at 3500kg and is
i) legal and
ii) has a useable payload.
My Carthago Compactline was the lightest new 7m motorhome I could find and I tried running it at 3500kg. I soon gave up trying and changed it to 3850kg.

I must admit I never tested mine when rated at 3500 but after it was uprated to 4350 I loaded it fully with motorbike, 2 cycles, chairs, table, gas bottles etc etc and it came to under 4000 so I reckon a sensibly used 3500 is doable for a couple.

 

[Barriesimpson]

Pilots PPL medical is a single sheet questionnaire type, just signed by your GP. Far simpler then an HGV/class C medical.

No. It is a full blood and urine test (including drug testing), hearing test, eye test, colour blind test, breathing test, balance test, ECG and a few others I don't remember right now and has to be done by an accredited aeronautical medical examiner.

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[jongood]

If your short of capacity with van under 3500kg have you thought of adding a trailer?

Isnt that the irony - the Op cant drive his hymer that to most folk would appear to be very similar to a 3500kgs one, but he can get a humvee a tow a 3.5tonne box trailer or caravan behind it.

 

[jongood]

I guess if you elect to travel overweight you should have a plan in the unlikely event that you do get weighed.

Telling your partner to catch the bus may not be well received, and won’t fix an overweight rear axle. Now you have to figure how to get two electric bikes into the front of the cab

Put them on a self steering trailer

Easy-Lifter Hydra Trail - Tel: 01509 268400 - £1195.00 Inc VAT

Easy-Lifter Non-Lift system gives you complete freedom on the road - call 01509 268400 today

www.easylifter.co.uk

 

[Ruby2]

I have a C licence but decided early on that I wasn't going to run the gauntlet with medicals, so decided to downsize before we got to that point. From a 5.5 t van to 3.5. No real problem. Obviously though I can't carry all the stuff I did before. But being in a 6 metre PVC which is under 3,500 kg is quite liberating in many ways.

So if you decide to accept rather than contest the ruling and stay below 3,500 kg it is workable. There are compromises of course, but it's really not that difficult.

Same here, other half 70 in Feb, didn't rant all the hassle so we p/e in September from 7.6 4 ton to a PVC 6.3 at 3500 ton. We also find it quite liberating. The amount of ",stuff" we carried which we hardly used was a game changer. Embrace the change, it will be worth it

 

[Reallyretired]

Got my C1 at 70 but what a hassle and took 10 months. Decided to jump before I was pushed and downsized to a low profile coachbuilt with two single beds. We never used the drop down bed in the A Class anyway. The present motorhome is under 7m with a cavernous garage, though obviously limited on weight, the heaviest item is a bag of dog food going out and a load of wine coming back. Less washroom and kitchen room but adequate.

 

[Bill-H]

Perhaps not really an anomaly. In 2019, the Government approved a change to driving licence legislation designed to make it easier for people to drive electric vans. The change was designed to make it easier for manufacturers to sell fully electric vans to the UK market, and easier for the end user by taking the hassle out of applying for more complex licences.

However, Category B licence holders are not automatically allowed to drive electric vehicles heavier than 3.5 tonnes. They must first complete a minimum of five hours’ training behind the wheel of such a vehicle with a registered instructor. The legislation also states that the van has to be driven for the purpose of transporting goods, only within the territory of Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales – not including Northern Ireland). You’re also not permitted to tow a trailer. Anyone caught driving an alternative fuel van with a standard Category B licence that hasn’t completed the training, or flouts any of the other rules, could be subject to a level three fine of £1,000.

I have recently done a little research into the future possible use of electric-powered vehicles for motorhomes. Of course, I may well have gotten much of this wrong, or simply misunderstood. So, I will in no way be offended if anyone better informed (thinking perhaps Gromett, Lenny HB, or others who post knowledgeably on such matters) correct or challenge anything I am saying below.

Taking as an example the Fiat Electric 4,250 kg van, the battery pack is rather heavy. There are two battery size options. With a 47 kWh battery, the van’s payload capacity is 1,060 kg; not a lot for a 3.5-ton ”delivery” van. Specify a 79 kWh battery and your capacity falls to a meagre 765 kg. All are powered by the same 90kW electric motor – equivalent to around 122hp – so they aren’t exactly fast. The smaller 47kWh battery capacity promises a WLTP driving range of 88-108 miles per charge, while the larger 79kWH battery capacity is reckoned to do 147-175 miles per charge – all depending on exact variant, load carried, speed driven etc. Using a 50kW DC rapid charger of the type found on the public charging network, it will likely take 30 minutes to add 60 miles of driving range. Currently, top speed is restricted to 62mph to maximise driving range (56mph on heavier models), and it takes around 6.0 seconds to reach 30mph. Whilst it might be expected that the running costs of electric vans will be much less than the diesel equivalent, the difference in purchase cost from the standard 3,500kg diesel to the higher 4,250kg electric model is around £2,800. I suspect it would be very naive to presume that since a huge income to Government comes from the taxation of diesel and petrol, that the longer-term shortfall will not be made up with corresponding overheads to drive electric vehicles.

Many of us in the motor-homing community would like more payload. For the present, an electric-powered van base at 4,250 kg (even if these were to converted for motorhome use, remained under the weight and permitted to be driven for such use with a B licence) does not seem to me to be a way forward. At some time things will have to change with the phasing out of diesel/electric vehicles and this will require changes to driving licence testing/authorisations. Perhaps the EU will uplift the B Licence to 4,250 kg and the UK Government will follow. However, unless the inherent weight of “alternative fuel” vehicles significantly reduces, once diesel vehicles have been phased out we will likely be back to square one with available payload for motorhomes……but this is unlikely to affect me in the remaining years I have as a Motorhomer.

Just noticed what gus-lopez posted above whilst I was typing. Sounds like very hopefully news for the near future. Fingers crossed the UK Government do the same for diesel powered vehicles.

Perhaps anomaly wasn't the correct word, but after 5 hours with an instructor you can drive a vehicle up to 4250kg with an 'ordinary' B licence - no test needed? Does said instructor have to advise DVLA that you've completed the training?
The 56mph restriction is as fast as many motorhomes get driven anyway.
Just seems a little unequal.

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[Coolcats]

They are probably all working from home.

If they were no mail would be answered !

 

[corconx]

Our thoughts too. Took 12 months for hubby to get his C1 and then they only put a year on the licence (they are not all 3 year ones). Just wasn’t worth the effort. I did it once and went through all the tests and passed but I was only ever going to bother the once.

Duncan did it at 70 but due to a stent in 1999 he had to do a test on a running machine, he only just managed it, as he wasn’t too fit but was passed. 73 he had just had a shoulder operation and still had his sling on. He took it off and they passed him again. But he missed the tunnel two bookings and got MP to sort it, we had it back next day!! by this time I had turned 70 and because I am diabetic on insulin we knew that it would be every year for me, my birthday is June his is May, so we were going to have a problem every time we went away, so we decided that he would not do it again at 76 and downgraded After he had done the one at 73.

 

[Brummie64]

Thanks for all the sympathy/empathy votes.

The fun starts now. How to minimise the inevitable compromises, starting with 3500kg max.

Island bed seems to be the first thing to go. We don’t fancy climbing up to over-cab beds, or transverse doubles, or French beds (for the same reason) or caravan-style on two benches, so it’s looking like two proper singles or somesuch. It’s beginning to look like we may join the woosh-bang brigade.

There are dozens to choose from and, as snowbirds, we want to be away PDQ. We’re restricting our choices to reasonable build quality which will probably eliminate most - obviously bias rather than researched facts! Our Hymer never had quality issues once we had replaced the stupid plastic kitchen drawer hinges with steel ones.

Ever thought about an electric drop down bed, we love the one in our Burstner IXEO 590, it’s like a 6 metre tardis!

 

[corconx]

There are quite a few Weight In motion (WIM) sensors built in to roads around the country, primarily to check HGVs for being overloaded. Coupled with ANPR cameras linked to DVLA so the axle limits can be seen in real time. The location of the WIMs isn't published for obvious reasons.
Discussions I've read sugest a 5% axle overload on a motorhome may result in just an advisory letter, so 175kg over on a 3.500kg plated motorhome.......
There is currently an anomoly where a you can drive an electric vehicle of up to 4250kg on a 'normal' licence but not an ICE engined one. I believe there is EU ligislation slowly going through in Brussels to increrase the weight limit on ordinary licences to 4250kg and I expect the UK will adopt this as well, but it might take a year or three.

This has been going thru the EU more than 20 years that I recall. It would be nice, but then no towing as I understood it then as it was the towing capacity plus the 3.5t that make it up to 4250.

But that may have changed over time we gave up waiting and downsized

C

 

[Rob Hammond]

No. It is a full blood and urine test (including drug testing), hearing test, eye test, colour blind test, breathing test, balance test, ECG and a few others I don't remember right now and has to be done by an accredited aeronautical medical examiner.

Anyone would think we are flying into space

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[G-RMPS]

Less required in the UK for a PPL medical. No blood or breathing, last time I did it. Wasn’t aware of drug testing either.

 

[Barriesimpson]

Less required in the UK for a PPL medical. No blood or breathing, last time I did it. Wasn’t aware of drug testing either.

Really? That seems strange. The drug testing is done on the blood and urine samples. Apparently it still shows up even after 12 months.

 

[akadingbat]

I see the Scottish Government currently have 55 WIMS ANPRs and no doubt planning a lot more.

High Speed Weigh-in-Motion with ANPR- Scotland - Q-Free

Transport Scotland has delegated responsibility for traffic monitoring across Scotland, which includes over 800 monitoring outstations, 55 of which, are high speed weigh in motion (HSWiM) sites.

www.q-free.com

 

[G-RMPS]

Researching t’internet there’s at least 5 Malibu 640 LE RB’s recently arrived in the UK - 2025 spec. They are almost identical. Obviously the various dealers guessed a saleable configuration when they ordered them a year ago. Interestingly all opted for the 180hp auto. None opted for the winterisation package which might be useful in the UK. None opted for leather seats, nor diesel heating, nor lithium, which I would choose if I wanted to wait up to another year for a bespoke order.

Seems you wait a year if you want anything specific on the base van that Fiat deliver to Malibu. Or maybe 8 months if you accept a van configuration (I guess including colour) and order specific Malibu options.

I’d rather compromise on spec and set sail a year earlier

 

[G-RMPS]

I see the Scottish Government currently have 55 WIMS ANPRs and no doubt planning a lot more.

High Speed Weigh-in-Motion with ANPR- Scotland - Q-Free

Transport Scotland has delegated responsibility for traffic monitoring across Scotland, which includes over 800 monitoring outstations, 55 of which, are high speed weigh in motion (HSWiM) sites.

www.q-free.com

In that case I’m fitting a wing to my van. Reduce the weight on the wheels. It could be mounted on the roof. I reckon a two metre wide airfoil at 60mph would reduce the weight by 100kg.

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