Not Happy, Autotrail Delaware 1 Year Old Failed Habitation Check - Damp

Speve · Mar 13, 2016

Have to say we owned two Autotrail a Cheyene 696g and a new 2013 Tracker FB the old Cheyene was really well built but the Tracker was disappointing in that we felt Autotrail did not do any quality control on it we had cupboard doors fall off a grill that did not work the fridge wiring was not protected and corroded waste pies came apart and leaked water under the sink one of the Windows had a big scratch in it and many other irritating little things.After trying to have a towbar fitted was told that it would not have capacity to tow a car trailer.
So guess what? We bought a Hymer Exsis i698 and its just what the doctor ordered we imported it from Germany at a great price and with Hymers warranty any problems can be sorted in UK without any hassle.
Will not go back to English van again.

MR. FUSION · Mar 13, 2016

zac said:
Thanks, very useful information which will come in handy when we decide for sure.

Not sure you will get the euro at 1.40 for the immediate future, my CC is giving 1.25

zac · Mar 13, 2016

I am afraid I am no longer in a position to p/x or sell this one as I no longer have the financials to top it up. I will have to just ensure I get everything fixed on this one as it comes up. My concern is the warranty which I think is 2 years although I think something happens on year 3. I know the water ingress is 10 years so that is one good thing as it looks as though I will be calling on that quite frequently. How it works once the warranty runs out is another story but for now they are fixing it.

As with all Motorhomes I have spent a considerable amount of money on extras etc to get this how i want it. When I asked the dealer how much they would give just to take it away they offered 47k which is over 20k less that what I brought it for. Now I know I could advertise on eBay etc and if I had the money to top it up I would. For now I will put up with it saving like mad to ensure I can do something with it later.

I can assure all that when I am a position to get another Motorhome I will not be looking at AutoTrail. It will almost certainly be German or American depending on my circumstances at the time.

Robert Clark · Mar 13, 2016

Sale of goods act allows 6 years to report faults - search online for all the facts

zac · Mar 13, 2016

Robert Clark said:
Sale of goods act allows 6 years to report faults - search online for all the facts

The good thing is that almost all of my communication has been over emails so I have a record of all that has been said. So if it does come to that I will be well armed.

chaser · Mar 13, 2016

Judge Mental said:
Get rid ASAP and buy German

The problem is , in these situations, he's told everyone on here, about the damp and that, so he's lost one place to try and sell it, not knocking the op himself but everyone who is thinking of selling and put any problems on here, are basically stuffed.

Robert Clark · Mar 13, 2016

Makes you wonder why any dealer who values their customers and their reputation would knowingly sell such shoddy goods

zac · Mar 13, 2016

chaser said:
The problem is , in these situations, he's told everyone on here, about the damp and that, so he's lost one place to try and sell it, not knocking the op himself but everyone who is thinking of selling and put any problems on here, are basically stuffed.

I would never sell it to anyone on here without telling them the history. But rest assured it will never be sold with any issues as I have morals. Unfortunately I can't sell it yet anyway and by the time I do everything that I am aware of will be fixed.

zac · Mar 13, 2016

Robert Clark said:
Makes you wonder why any dealer who values their customers and their reputation would knowingly sell such shoddy goods

I have to agree, the only reasons these dealers keep pushing these vans has to be because of the kick backs from the manufacturers themselves. I have spoke with several people who have auto trails and all have not had a good word to say about them. So not just me on my own. Yet even this weekend whilst we were in Newark the majority of the vans on sale at the dealers were in fact auto trails. There were of course other makes but AutoTrail had a much larger presence.

chaser · Mar 13, 2016

zac said:
I would never sell it to anyone on here without telling them the history. But rest assured it will never be sold with any issues as I have morals. Unfortunately I can't sell it yet anyway and by the time I do everything that I am aware of will be fixed.

Very commendable and I think most would do the same but obviously dealers aren't on the same wavelength, they just sell and hope for the best.

zac · Mar 13, 2016

chaser said:
Very commendable and I think most would do the same but obviously dealers aren't on the same wavelength, they just sell and hope for the best.

Agreed, it is a painful and expensive lesson learnt. But one that I won't repeat in a hurry that's for sure.

Judge Mental · Mar 13, 2016

Once it's repaired under warranty you will easily sell....very polar vans unbelievable under the circumstance but people are not very discriminatory and go on face value not build quality. Get rid and live a little!

Keypresser · Mar 13, 2016

Zac, screwfix product code 3951f
if you go to their web site and put this code in it will come up with the dimplex heater.
comes complete with mounting clips which i screwed to a piece of decking board.
no need to completely empty the garage, just leave approx 6 inches clearance and you will be ok.
only gets hand hot so a gentle steady heat.
By the way, if u are using a dehumidifyer check it at least once a day as they trap so much water that it could overflow!

zac · Mar 13, 2016

Keypresser said:
Zac, screwfix product code 3951f
if you go to their web site and put this code in it will come up with the dimplex heater.
comes complete with mounting clips which i screwed to a piece of decking board.
no need to completely empty the garage, just leave approx 6 inches clearance and you will be ok.
only gets hand hot so a gentle steady heat.
By the way, if u are using a dehumidifyer check it at least once a day as they trap so much water that it could overflow!

Thanks for the info around the dimplex i will give that a go, i have ordered a dehumidifier which will be here tomorrow so will put that straight in. i will check it daily though just to be on the safe side.

Thanks for the tips.

Rugeley Tim · Mar 14, 2016

zac said:
I have to agree, the only reasons these dealers keep pushing these vans has to be because of the kick backs from the manufacturers themselves. I have spoke with several people who have auto trails and all have not had a good word to say about them. So not just me on my own. Yet even this weekend whilst we were in Newark the majority of the vans on sale at the dealers were in fact auto trails. There were of course other makes but AutoTrail had a much larger presence.

Zac as you say there are ATs for sale on most dealers forecourts as they are very popular and if you ask the dealers they generally sell very quickly. We are on our second AT having owned an Apache 634 for nearly 5 years we now have a Savanha and we have had very very few niggles or problems with either and have been extremly happy with AT, you could say we have been lucky but we have several friends who also own ATs who are just as satisfied as we are. Whilst AT can have no excuses for poor after sales service, I would happily recommend AT and would buy AT again as would the other many thousands of satisfied customers.

zac · Mar 14, 2016

Gosport Tim said:
Zac as you say there are ATs for sale on most dealers forecourts as they are very popular and if you ask the dealers they generally sell very quickly. We are on our second AT having owned an Apache 634 for nearly 5 years we now have a Savanha and we have had very very few niggles or problems with either and have been extremly happy with AT, you could say we have been lucky but we have several friends who also own ATs who are just as satisfied as we are. Whilst AT can have no excuses for poor after sales service, I would happily recommend AT and would buy AT again as would the other many thousands of satisfied customers.

I am glad your's is ok, ours has been nothing but problems and i can say for certain that if anyone asks me abut Autotrails i will give my honest opinion as i have found them to be.

tonka · Mar 14, 2016

Robert Clark said:
Sale of goods act allows 6 years to report faults - search online for all the facts

Interesting.. will have to read up on this..

AND... The first thing I find..

"The Sale of Goods Act has been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act. This came into force on 1 October 2015."

Tanya_and_Mick · Mar 14, 2016

Gosport Tim said:
Zac as you say there are ATs for sale on most dealers forecourts as they are very popular and if you ask the dealers they generally sell very quickly. We are on our second AT having owned an Apache 634 for nearly 5 years we now have a Savanha and we have had very very few niggles or problems with either and have been extremly happy with AT, you could say we have been lucky but we have several friends who also own ATs who are just as satisfied as we are. Whilst AT can have no excuses for poor after sales service, I would happily recommend AT and would buy AT again as would the other many thousands of satisfied customers.

Ditto, we are on our second Comanche - changed our 2010 to a 2015 in Jan - and to date no issues......

zac · Mar 14, 2016

Mickx said:
Ditto, we are on our second Comanche - change our 2010 to a 2015 in Jan - and to date no issues......

Interesting as the comanche is the same as the delaware apart from the longer dining area which in turn makes it a tag axle and same year (2015 model). I hope your luck continues i really do.

I did just put a dehumidifier in the back garage and there doesnt appear to be any water than i can see so perhaps it is now sorted. wont know for another couple of months now as thats when i need to take it back. it will most likely be after out Italy trip and end of april start of may now as too much going on.

Robert Clark · Mar 14, 2016

tonka said:
Interesting.. will have to read up on this..

AND... The first thing I find..

"The Sale of Goods Act has been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act. This came into force on 1 October 2015."

I understand that the 6 year rule still applies and supersedes any warranty offered by a supplier

robnchris · Mar 14, 2016

Gosport Tim said:
Zac as you say there are ATs for sale on most dealers forecourts as they are very popular and if you ask the dealers they generally sell very quickly. We are on our second AT having owned an Apache 634 for nearly 5 years we now have a Savanha and we have had very very few niggles or problems with either and have been extremly happy with AT, you could say we have been lucky but we have several friends who also own ATs who are just as satisfied as we are. Whilst AT can have no excuses for poor after sales service, I would happily recommend AT and would buy AT again as would the other many thousands of satisfied customers.

As with most things everyone has a different story to tell, I remember not long ago the Fiat reverse judder issue, some owners swear that their engine didn`t suffer from judder, truth is if you owned that engine with a manual gearbox it had the reverse judder until the changed the design of the gearbox.

We have owned 3 Autotrails, the two previous ones a 2000 Cheyenne and the other a 2008 Arapaho, both solid built motorhomes, we now own a 2013 Apache and this has been more trouble than the other two put together, with an amazing amount of faults.
The build quality is now very poor at best and there is certainly no Quality control at the factory, one of our wardrobe doors fell off only 15 miles from picking it up.
Apparently the industry isn`t regulated and until it is the builders take great delight in separating you from your hard earned cash and offering a poor standard of build and a warranty system that is very difficult to work with.

I can`t understand how you can pay £76k for new motorhome only to be told by the manufacturer that the faults with your habitation door aren`t their problem as it is made by Dometic so you need to contact them, or that the 3 month old PSU that has failed isn`t their responsibility as it is made by Sargent so contact them.
Not worth mentioning the £999.00 cab cd radio unit that Autotrail fitted, you couldn`t get a response from the company that made those useless bits of junk, so bad that Autotrail stopped fitting them.

Being 3 yrs old we are comfortable with the interior design of our Apache, the U shared lounge is perfect for us and despite looking at non British built motorhomes makes we can`t find another U shaped lounge, so have decided to keep this Apache for now and any issues with it we will put right ourselves.

Would we buy another Autotrail, definitely 100% NOT, Would we recommend them absolutely not, they offer little or No support for their customers.

zac · Mar 14, 2016

@robnchris could not agree more.

tonyidle · Mar 14, 2016

zac said:
Thanks for the info around the dimplex i will give that a go, i have ordered a dehumidifier which will be here tomorrow so will put that straight in. i will check it daily though just to be on the safe side.

Thanks for the tips.

Stand dehumidifier on sink unit with drain hose into sink (most have drain hose attachment points as well as a tank) then if you leave your waste drain cock open you can monitor effectiveness by pool on drive.

Damp strikes terror into the heart of MH & caravan owners but it isn't the problem it once was. Many (most?) manufacturers are moving away from wood in the walls (it has only been used to reinforce attachment points and joints within PU foam sandwich panels for years now and that's the wood that is being replaced by solid PU or aluminium). So now water ingress can't cause the frame rot it did in the past which cost a bomb to repair. These days the major issue is décor damage to the inner skin close to where the damp comes through. It's normally due to window /. rooflight / wall-floor-roof joints. Disappointing and usually down to build quality but once properly fixed should go away for good.

zac · Mar 14, 2016

tonyidle said:
Stand dehumidifier on sink unit with drain hose into sink (most have drain hose attachment points as well as a tank) then if you leave your waste drain cock open you can monitor effectiveness by pool on drive.

Damp strikes terror into the heart of MH & caravan owners but it isn't the problem it once was. Many (most?) manufacturers are moving away from wood in the walls (it has only been used to reinforce attachment points and joints within PU foam sandwich panels for years now and that's the wood that is being replaced by solid PU or aluminium). So now water ingress can't cause the frame rot it did in the past which cost a bomb to repair. These days the major issue is décor damage to the inner skin close to where the damp comes through. It's normally due to window /. rooflight / wall-floor-roof joints. Disappointing and usually down to build quality but once properly fixed should go away for good.

Yes i beleive ours does not have wood in the frame anymore, the dehumidifier i got was a mini one with its own tank, it will auto stop when full but i will be checking it frequently. Ours is definitly down to poor workmanship, no doubt in my mind about that.

tonyidle · Mar 14, 2016

robnchris said:
As with most things everyone has a different story to tell, I remember not long ago the Fiat reverse judder issue, some owners swear that their engine didn`t suffer from judder, truth is if you owned that engine with a manual gearbox it had the reverse judder until the changed the design of the gearbox.

We have owned 3 Autotrails, the two previous ones a 2000 Cheyenne and the other a 2008 Arapaho, both solid built motorhomes, we now own a 2013 Apache and this has been more trouble than the other two put together, with an amazing amount of faults.
The build quality is now very poor at best and there is certainly no Quality control at the factory, one of our wardrobe doors fell off only 15 miles from picking it up.
Apparently the industry isn`t regulated and until it is the builders take great delight in separating you from your hard earned cash and offering a poor standard of build and a warranty system that is very difficult to work with.

I can`t understand how you can pay £76k for new motorhome only to be told by the manufacturer that the faults with your habitation door aren`t their problem as it is made by Dometic so you need to contact them, or that the 3 month old PSU that has failed isn`t their responsibility as it is made by Sargent so contact them.
Not worth mentioning the £999.00 cab cd radio unit that Autotrail fitted, you couldn`t get a response from the company that made those useless bits of junk, so bad that Autotrail stopped fitting them.

Being 3 yrs old we are comfortable with the interior design of our Apache, the U shared lounge is perfect for us and despite looking at non British built motorhomes makes we can`t find another U shaped lounge, so have decided to keep this Apache for now and any issues with it we will put right ourselves.

Would we buy another Autotrail, definitely 100% NOT, Would we recommend them absolutely not, they offer little or No support for their customers.

All faults on a bought-new MH, warranty or not, must be dealt with by the supplying dealer. The responsibility rests entirely with them and I believe any communication by the end user with any OEM simply confuses the issue (and may affect their rights under consumer legislation).

zac · Mar 14, 2016

tonyidle said:
All faults on a bought-new MH, warranty or not, must be dealt with by the supplying dealer. The responsibility rests entirely with them and I believe any communication by the end user with any OEM simply confuses the issue (and may affect their rights under consumer legislation).

Is that true i.e. "All faults on a bought-new MH, warranty or not, must be dealt with by the supplying dealer" as if it is not part of the warranty it wouldnt seem right if you then had to go to one dealer for all the repairs regardless if covered by warranty or not ?

Cavs · Mar 14, 2016

zac said:
Is that true i.e. "All faults on a bought-new MH, warranty or not, must be dealt with by the supplying dealer"

It might be better to say that all faults are the responsibility of the supplying dealer. Your contract is with the company you bought it from; it is that company that must resolve the problems or breach the contract.

zac · Mar 14, 2016

Cavs said:
It might be better to say that all faults are the responsibility of the supplying dealer. Your contract is with the company you bought it from; it is that company that must resolve the problems or breach the contract.

But not if it is not part of the warranty surely!

DBK · Mar 14, 2016

@zac I don't now if it has been mentioned in this thread but I seriously suggest you get some legal advice. You seem to have such a can of worms you may be able to return the vehicle - but the law is complex hence the need for good advice given the sum involved. Legally you can return a vehicle up to six years (5 in Scotland) but the burden of proof becomes harder as time passes.
https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/your-rights-if-something-is-wrong-with-your-car

zac · Mar 14, 2016

DBK said:
@zac I don't now if it has been mentioned in this thread but I seriously suggest you get some legal advice. You seem to have such a can of worms you may be able to return the vehicle - but the law is complex hence the need for good advice given the sum involved. Legally you can return a vehicle up to six years (5 in Scotland) but the burden of proof becomes harder as time passes.
https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/your-rights-if-something-is-wrong-with-your-car

I will keep that in mind but for the moment i am hoping all is now fixed, i expect some issues with a new purchase but i think i have had my fair share. Still on a positive note it may all be ok as at present the dehumidifier doesnt seem to be picking up a lot.

Not Happy, Autotrail Delaware 1 Year Old Failed Habitation Check - Damp

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