Nordelettronica B2B and NE350 switch settings, change both for lithium? (2 Viewers)

[Kups]

Recently replaced my gel habitation battery for a lithium battery.
My 2020 Adria has factory fitted Nordelettronica NE325 B2B and electrobloc NE350 unit. It also has an NDS Sun MPPT unit. All these have lithium dip switch settings which I carefully changed (or so I thought) to the new lithium settings.
However after 2 trips I found that the lithium battery wasn't charging when driving. Charged OK on EHU and solar.
Wondering why my expensive lithium wasn't charging I realised that I had changed the DC DC dip switches on the NE325 unit (on the top) to turn off the charging function DOH! Easy to correct.
However the battery type dip switches are on the underside of the unit and require a mirror to see and change with a lot of grovelling on hands and knees.
Question: Do I need to change the NE325 battery type dip switches (which are set to Gel) when I've already changed the B2B switches to lithium?

 

[Kups]

Recently replaced my gel habitation battery for a lithium battery.
My 2020 Adria has factory fitted Nordelettronica NE325 B2B and electrobloc NE350 unit. It also has an NDS Sun MPPT unit. All these have lithium dip switch settings which I carefully changed (or so I thought) to the new lithium settings.
However after 2 trips I found that the lithium battery wasn't charging when driving. Charged OK on EHU and solar.
Wondering why my expensive lithium wasn't charging I realised that I had changed the DC DC dip switches on the NE325 unit (on the top) to turn off the charging function DOH! Easy to correct.
However the battery type dip switches are on the underside of the unit and require a mirror to see and change with a lot of grovelling on hands and knees.
Question: Do I need to change the NE325 battery type dip switches (which are set to Gel) when I've already changed the B2B switches to lithium?

A very helpful tech support person at DELTA COMPONENTS GROUP advises that yes, both units have to have the correct dip switch setting.

 

[LithiumConvert]

I came to the conclusion that using a GEL setting to charge lithium batteries was not a real problem, the disadvantage being that the batteries would not get fully charged.

In my opinion this is not worth worrying about for a B2B when you have other chargers that can finish the job more fully.

I am not surprised that the tech support people stick to the line that the DIP switches have to be set according to the documentation.

 

[Kups]

I came to the conclusion that using a GEL setting to charge lithium batteries was not a real problem, the disadvantage being that the batteries would not get fully charged.

In my opinion this is not worth worrying about for a B2B when you have other chargers that can finish the job more fully.

I am not surprised that the tech support people stick to the line that the DIP switches have to be set according to the documentation.

Good points. Changing the charger dip switches was actually easier than expected thanks to SWMBO's handbag mirror, a small allen key and a torch. Peace of mind in the end I guess.

 

[RobB567]

Recently replaced my gel habitation battery for a lithium battery.
My 2020 Adria has factory fitted Nordelettronica NE325 B2B and electrobloc NE350 unit. It also has an NDS Sun MPPT unit. All these have lithium dip switch settings which I carefully changed (or so I thought) to the new lithium settings.
However after 2 trips I found that the lithium battery wasn't charging when driving. Charged OK on EHU and solar.
Wondering why my expensive lithium wasn't charging I realised that I had changed the DC DC dip switches on the NE325 unit (on the top) to turn off the charging function DOH! Easy to correct.
However the battery type dip switches are on the underside of the unit and require a mirror to see and change with a lot of grovelling on hands and knees.
Question: Do I need to change the NE325 battery type dip switches (which are set to Gel) when I've already changed the B2B switches to lithium?

Hi, I have the same setup as you having recently swapped a lead acid battery for a TopBand 100ah lithium. I changed the switches to lithium on the NE325 to lithium plus changed them on the NDS sun controlled sc320m. I didn't realise there was an option on the NE350 so any info you have would be helpful. I thought all was working well as the solar took the battery from an initial 60% to full over a couple of days whilst off EHU and running the compressor fridge. The problem started on the first trip which happened to be France! I checked the battery charge after 6 hours driving to find it was down at 50%ish. My research pointed towards the smart alternator as I could see the battery was charging after starting the vehicle but after a short while I could see it was discharging which is clearly not what I wanted to see. Any advice from your experience would be highly appreciated.

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[Orion]

Hi, I have the same setup as you having recently swapped a lead acid battery for a TopBand 100ah lithium. I changed the switches to lithium on the NE325 to lithium plus changed them on the NDS sun controlled sc320m. I didn't realise there was an option on the NE350 so any info you have would be helpful. I thought all was working well as the solar took the battery from an initial 60% to full over a couple of days whilst off EHU and running the compressor fridge. The problem started on the first trip which happened to be France! I checked the battery charge after 6 hours driving to find it was down at 50%ish. My research pointed towards the smart alternator as I could see the battery was charging after starting the vehicle but after a short while I could see it was discharging which is clearly not what I wanted to see. Any advice from your experience would be highly appreciated.

Relevant pages from the manual:

 

[RobB567]

Relevant pages from the manual:

View attachment 936915
View attachment 936917

Thanks for that. Is option 3 or 4 advised for the lithium setting?

Not sure this helps with the discharging issue but it will be good to have the charging options set correctly. Any advice on the discharge issue would be welcome.

Rob

 

[Orion]

Thanks for that. Is option 3 or 4 advised for the lithium setting?

Not sure this helps with the discharging issue but it will be good to have the charging options set correctly. Any advice on the discharge issue would be welcome.

Rob

AFAIK (not having Lithium myself at the moment) it would be option 4 as that’s the only one marked ‘Lithium’?

 

[RobB567]

Thanks Orion, I misread but glad I went back to double check and found "SW" which is the switches on the reverse side. I will have to do this when I get home.

If anyone can advise on anything I can do about the leisure battery discharging when the engine is running it would be appreciated. I guess I could isolate the battery when travelling but that means leaving the fridge off which doesn't feel like the best solution.

 

[Kups]

Hi, I have the same setup as you having recently swapped a lead acid battery for a TopBand 100ah lithium. I changed the switches to lithium on the NE325 to lithium plus changed them on the NDS sun controlled sc320m. I didn't realise there was an option on the NE350 so any info you have would be helpful. I thought all was working well as the solar took the battery from an initial 60% to full over a couple of days whilst off EHU and running the compressor fridge. The problem started on the first trip which happened to be France! I checked the battery charge after 6 hours driving to find it was down at 50%ish. My research pointed towards the smart alternator as I could see the battery was charging after starting the vehicle but after a short while I could see it was discharging which is clearly not what I wanted to see. Any advice from your experience would be highly appreciated.

Hi. The NE350 Unit can be confusing, well, it confused me. The obvious dip switches on the top are NOT the battery type dip switches. I did look at the manual but still made the mistake of changing the topside switches SW1 thinking they were the lithium settings, they are not. They set up how the battery is charged by the DC to DC unit. Check that SW1.1 is ON. I switched it off and ended up very quickly with a flat hab battery even after driving 250 miles in February.

The lithium settings dip switches marked SW, are on the underside of the unit and awkward to access by hand and eye! . I used a mirror, torch and long nail to change them to lithium. Kicked myself later for this rather elementary error. All's working perfectly now. So double check SW1.1 it might be the culprit.

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[RobB567]

Hi. The NE350 Unit can be confusing, well, it confused me. The obvious dip switches on the top are NOT the battery type dip switches. I did look at the manual but still made the mistake of changing the topside switches SW1 thinking they were the lithium settings, they are not. They set up how the battery is charged by the DC to DC unit. Check that SW1.1 is ON. I switched it off and ended up very quickly with a flat hab battery even after driving 250 miles in February.

The lithium settings dip switches marked SW, are on the underside of the unit and awkward to access by hand and eye! . I used a mirror, torch and long nail to change them to lithium. Kicked myself later for this rather elementary error. All's working perfectly now. So double check SW1.1 it might be the culprit.

Thank you Kups, I can confirm that SW1 is set to on/on which is unchanged. I will not be able to complete the change to SW until I return home but I suspect this will only help with the charging wave versus the discharging issue when driving. What I observe is ~3ah drain when the fridge is cooling plus a couple of lights on. When I start the vehicle I see a short discharge of ~30ah then it settles to around 8ah continuous drain ie. Not seeing any charging. I have tried turning lights and wipers on to get the smart alternator firing up but this has only added load to the discharge rate. I have attached a few images from the TopBand app. Any thoughts?

 

[RobB567]

Having monitored what is happening on a short journey I can see a steady 20ah discharging from the battery but when decelerating out breaking this changes to up to 40ah going into the battery however this is only short lived. As soon as I get back on the power the discharge of the leisure battery continues. Any ideas from anyone?

 

[autorouter]

If anyone can advise on anything I can do about the leisure battery discharging when the engine is running it would be appreciated. I guess I could isolate the battery when travelling but that means leaving the fridge off which doesn't feel like the best solution.

Am I right that you don't have a B2B (DC-DC Charger) to charge the lithium from the alternator/starter battery? Instead you are using a split charge relay (aka coupler relay) which connects the two batteries together when the engine is running. This is so the alternator can charge both batteries.

Or not, in this case. A smart alternator dials down the voltage as soon as the starter battery has a reasonable charge into it. So a charged leisure battery will discharge into the starter battery, which is not full. A lithium battery, with its higher voltage, will be even worse.

This is a known problem with smart alternators, and also a known problem with lithium batteries. And the two together just compounds the problems. It's the reason a DC-DC charger (B2B) is recommended for a smart alternator, and for a lithium battery. And definitely if you have both.

 

[Kups]

My Adria Coral factory instal included an NDS B2B charger.

 

[autorouter]

So, you have a B2B fitted, and the SW1 switch is definitely ON. Next thing to look at is, what do the voltages of the two batteries look like when the engine is stopped, and also at various times when the engine is running? Are the voltages definitely different, or are they always much the same? That would indicate/rule out the coupler relay (split charge relay) being stuck closed, either permanently or intermittently. Or the SW1 switch is not doing what it's supposed to do, ie disable the coupler relay.

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[Kups]

So, you have a B2B fitted, and the SW1 switch is definitely ON. Next thing to look at is, what do the voltages of the two batteries look like when the engine is stopped, and also at various times when the engine is running? Are the voltages definitely different, or are they always much the same? That would indicate/rule out the coupler relay (split charge relay) being stuck closed, either permanently or intermittently. Or the SW1 switch is not doing what it's supposed to do, ie disable the coupler relay.

No not me the OP RobB567 . My set up is working fine now.

 

[autorouter]

No not me the OP @RobB567 . My set up is working fine now.

Sorry, I'm getting confused. I'll wait for a reply from RobB567.

I see that RobB567 is now a Free Member, so run out of the 5 free posts, and has to subscribe to post any more. Most people on here reckon it's well worth the money. None of us gets any of that money, by the way, it just goes to running the forum.

 

[RobB567]

Hi autorouter , sorry for the delay but had trouble joining. Yes I have the NE325 B2B and the switches on the NE350 SW1 are set to on. All I have changed in my move from lead acid to lithium is the switches on the NE325 and the solar charger to use the lithium charging profile, I will do the NE350 at the weekend when I return home. I should also add that my electrical knowledge is limited. I suspect this issue may have existed with my lead acid setup as the battery was effectively dead after 2.5 years of infrequent use. Any pointers highly appreciated

 

[autorouter]

Hi @autorouter , sorry for the delay but had trouble joining. Yes I have the NE325 B2B and the switches on the NE350 SW1 are set to on. All I have changed in my move from lead acid to lithium is the switches on the NE325 and the solar charger to use the lithium charging profile, I will do the NE350 at the weekend when I return home. I should also add that my electrical knowledge is limited. I suspect this issue may have existed with my lead acid setup as the battery was effectively dead after 2.5 years of infrequent use. Any pointers highly appreciated

So what I said in post#15 still applies to your situation. When you say your electrical knowledge is limited, are you OK using a multimeter to measure some voltages? A few readings can tell you a lot.

The symptoms you describe in post#12 are consistent with the coupler relay still keeping the connection between the leisure battery and starter battery while the engine is running. I appreciate that SW1 ON ought to disable the relay, but maybe it isn't for some reason.

 

[RobB567]

Thank you for the pointers so far, I will see what I can do when I get back from France at the weekend. The SW1 switch is on the NE350, am I right in assuming the coupler is in the B2B? Is there any way to reset it?

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[autorouter]

The SW1 switch is on the NE350, am I right in assuming the coupler is in the B2B? Is there any way to reset it?

No, the coupler relay (split charge relay) is in the NE350. There are two ways of charging a leisure battery when the engine is running.

A coupler relay simply connects the starter battery and leisure battery together with a direct metallic connection, so that the alternator can charge both batteries. When the engine stops, the coupler relay disconnects the leisure battery from the starter battery.

The other way is to use a B2B (DC-DC charger) that switches on when the engine is running, and switches off when the engine is stopped. The two charging methods are not compatible, so if you fit a B2B you need to disable the coupler relay. That's what the SW1 switch is for.

A B2B is better than a coupler relay, especially with lithium batteries, and/or a smart alternator.

It should be fairly easy to check if the coupler relay is disconnected or not. Sometimes when relays fail, they remain permanently stuck on. Or maybe the SW1 switch is not working properly. You can measure the voltage of the leisure battery and starter battery, when the engine is stopped, and at various times when the engine is running. If the two voltages are always the same as each other, then the coupler relay is stuck closed. If the two voltages are different from each other, then the relay isn't closed.

If the two voltages are different from each other when the engine is stopped, but always the same as each other when the engine is running, then the coupler relay is working, ie it is not being disabled by SW1. Are you OK measuring voltages with a multimeter?

 

[RobB567]

autorouter , I think I have had a breakthrough thanks to the information this group has provided. The NE350 is in a tricky place but I managed to get my head into the little locker enough to move SW1.1, I switched off and on with the help of my daughter's eyes and tweezers. I suspect it was not fully switched as after a short drive there was constant curvy flow into the battery versus it off it see the image below of the end result. This leaves me with a couple of questions:

1. Do you think that a change to the lithium profile on SW (NE350) is advised?

2. Do you think that this will have been the cause of the short life (2.5 years) of the original leaf acid battery?

Thank you all for the help provided, my subscription has already paid for itself.

Rob

 

[Kups]

autorouter , I think I have had a breakthrough thanks to the information this group has provided. The NE350 is in a tricky place but I managed to get my head into the little locker enough to move SW1.1, I switched off and on with the help of my daughter's eyes and tweezers. I suspect it was not fully switched as after a short drive there was constant curvy flow into the battery versus it off it see the image below of the end result. This leaves me with a couple of questions:

1. Do you think that a change to the lithium profile on SW (NE350) is advised?

2. Do you think that this will have been the cause of the short life (2.5 years) of the original leaf acid battery?

Thank you all for the help provided, my subscription has already paid for itself.

Rob



View attachment 937699

Great. Pesky tiny dip switches! I've changed my NE350 to the lithium charging profile. As mentioned in our Coral these are underneath and I needed a mirror, torch and thin,sharp pointed tool to change the setting.
The dealer installed gel battery lasted 30 months in our previous Adria but that was due to the cheap brand low storage battery they put in. Adria don't put in the hab battery in new vehicles, it's a dealer instal, so costs are often saved.

 

[RobB567]

Thanks Kups , I think mine was a decent one but suspect it has been draining on all drives that surely won't have been helpful. Thanks to your original post with the exact issue I was seeing I have finally got a solution. I will sort the charge profile when I get home as the NE350 will need to be moved to access the rear switch but I am delighted that I am now in a much better place.

Many thanks
Rob

 

[Kups]

Thanks Kups , I think mine was a decent one but suspect it has been draining on all drives that surely won't have been helpful. Thanks to your original post with the exact issue I was seeing I have finally got a solution. I will sort the charge profile when I get home as the NE350 will need to be moved to access the rear switch but I am delighted that I am now in a much better place.

Many thanks
Rob

No problem. Glad that a solution has been found. Do you really need to move the NE350 to get at the other dip switches? I'd consider just getting it off it's wall mounting, changing the dip switches and refitting it in the same place. There's a lot of custom cut cables attached to it.
Final suggestion for battery peace of mind, fit a Van Bitz Battery Master. This simple small device trickle charges the engine battery from the hab battery whenever it senses the need. Low cost but may need an installer. Van Bitz charge £150 I think. https://vanbitz.com/battery-master/

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[RobB567]

Sadly I think I will, I had to unscrew the NE325 and the solar charger to access the switches, I will try the same with the 350 which I suspect will have cables that allow enough movement. If there is any chance of using mirrors and a good light, I will try that option first. Thank you also for the additional recommendation that I will look into

Rob