Niesmann Bischoff arto

There's a similar Arto currently advertised on ebay.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-...0001&campid=5338547443&icep_item=324212663625
It looks a fair price to me, I'd happily buy it subject to inspection.
Low miles with a good MOT history.
No reason for it to be rusty or unreliable (mine's as new underneath, no problems in the 35k miles / 6 years of ownership). 2002 is barely middle age for a quality German van.
 
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Get a bit knocked off, and get the seats recovered in "leather"?

Will increase its attractiveness a lot. (just IMHO)(y)

My Carthago had its seats done by the previous owner. Really sold it for me.
 
Now for me leather 🤮
Interiors are very personal, it looks of its age but could be updated very easily without it looking like your nan has fitted loose 'leatherette' seat covers which seem to be in fashion
 
Al n Val said:
personally, and i'll probably get shot down in flames for saying this, but this motorhome looks like Noah built it inside, i really do think it looks awful and the thought of being inside it driving, living & sleeping in it is a non starter.

It might be dry inside but it'll be rusty underneath due to its age and with 62k on the clock there could be big bills to pay somewhere along the line, i don't mean mileage on the engine either. Clutch, gearbox, running gear, suspension/brakes, steering components, all come into play. Then theirs everything on the vehicle is 17 years old inside and out. It might be a Niesmann Bischoff but its also all of the above and at £26k i'm cringing atm.

It'll be great for some but its not for me unfortunately and at £26K its scares me tbh, not that spending £26k scares me as i've recently spent £90k on a motorhome but it was a new one, the age is the scary bit for me.

Sorry but thats my opinion and i'll go get my coat and tin hat on :crying1:

PS. i'm also getting old and that scares me as well ;)
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Not going to shoot you down but I think your comment is very unfair. Personally If it were me I could not live with that upholstery. But 1500 quid would see it turned around by careavan to however the OP wanted it.

We have an N&B, quite a bit newer and we had it re-upholstered as we didn't like the brown. We have 53k on ours already but would probably only buy another N&B or not bother. Saw one at TW for 85k and serioulsy considered it before thinking why bother.

I have what I would describe as considerable experience in mothorhomes because I am a proper sad case, but I would put Niesmans right up there with the best.
Far better than those Morello things :LOL::LOL:

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nicholsong said:
Al

What people prefer on layout is their business, not yours when you are not buying it.

The OP did not ask for your, nor mine, opinion on layout, but on what to look for on inspection, which I think I answered fully, with only an aside on our preference for layout.

Geoff
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but i’ve not mentioned layout Geoff, layout is how the interior is set out not how it looks, and to me it looks very very dated as in the fabrics used.

I’ve mentioned mainly the mechanics of the vehicle which NB did not manufacture, Fiat did and the OP asked us for any pointers and i’ll quote

“anything to look out for in particular or any insight into the make/ quality,“

so for me i thought it good advice to point out that as well

I knew it would cause controversy hence the coat and tin hat comment but I was trying to be helpful and help him to see what’s underneath and not just on top, that and I think it’s too expensive but it’s not my money is it

Al (y)
 
haganap said:
Not going to shoot you down but I think your comment is very unfair. Personally If it were me I could not live with that upholstery. But 1500 quid would see it turned around by careavan to however the OP wanted it.

We have an N&B, quite a bit newer and we had it re-upholstered as we didn't like the brown. We have 53k on ours already but would probably only buy another N&B or not bother. Saw one at TW for 85k and serioulsy considered it before thinking why bother.

I have what I would describe as considerable experience in mothorhomes because I am a proper sad case, but I would put Niesmans right up there with the best.
Far better than those Morello things :LOL::LOL:
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my comment is not unfair it’s just my opinion and laying out another £1500 to make it prettier is for me throwing money at a vehicle which, “in my opinion again”, is already too expensive.

They may rank as being up there with the best and i’m sort of agreeing with you, but that does not make it look fantastic which it clearly doesn’t to me, it may do to you and others including the OP but certainly not me.

So i’m out i’m afraid 😄
 
Good spot on the pictures, not sure how it would be damp in the bedroom corners after reading the comments the build type but maybe has a leak somewhere. Will definitely check those areas carefully.

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All the MHs in this price range have very dodgy decor but nothing a bit of TLC can’t sort out I don’t like the upholstery either but I think of it like buying a house you don't have to live with the decor you buy it with. As long as the base is good and mechanics then we can sort the rest.
I agree about it being expensive but they all are so it’s on a par with the market.
 
Al n Val said:
my comment is not unfair it’s just my opinion and laying out another £1500 to make it prettier is for me throwing money at a vehicle which, “in my opinion again”, is already too expensive.

They may rank as being up there with the best and i’m sort of agreeing with you, but that does not make it look fantastic which it clearly doesn’t to me, it may do to you and others including the OP but certainly not me.

So i’m out i’m afraid 😄
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N+B van are always quite expensive but there is a good reason for that, they are expensive when new and they hold their price because they are a solid and well respected van, not everybody gets it though ;) when we bought ours 8 years ago Mrs Funflair wanted an Autotrail:LOL: she came round though.
 
Who cares what the soft furnishings look like :doh: I've never bought a second-hand van and not refurbed the soft bits. As for the price, it's about right.

It's a great van. if it's not damp and is sound underneath, you'll have just as much fun for your 20k as someone who paid 90 grand has in theirs. And, you'll lose a lot less than they do in depreciation. Best of luck (y)
 
funflair said:
N+B van are always quite expensive but there is a good reason for that, they are expensive when new and they hold their price because they are a solid and well respected van, not everybody gets it though ;) when we bought ours 8 years ago Mrs Funflair wanted an Autotrail:LOL: she came round though.
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Poor Jen, did she suffer concussion?

What was her preference when you bought the Morelo? Or has she deferred to your superior wisdom?

Geoff

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Billylyne5 said:
Good spot on the pictures, not sure how it would be damp in the bedroom corners after reading the comments the build type but maybe has a leak somewhere. Will definitely check those areas carefully.
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You can still get damp into a N+B structure it's just that it doesn't soak into the wall construction and do damage as the internal walls are alloy the same as the outside, the walls and roof are joined and you need to check the integrity of the sealing of the filler over the joint, the fibreglass front cap is joined to the roof skin and then sealed over with tape that should be changed every few years, I replaced ours with eternabond which last about 25 years or more.

So while we are on you need to check the double glazed side windows as with any double glazed panel they can "blow" and subsequently mist up, this is expensive to get fixed at a dealer or indeed the factory but is pretty straight forward if you are hands on DIY the choice is over £3k for both side windows or a couple of hundred DIY.

As I mentioned above the front is fibreglass but the rear corners, top spoiler trim and wheel arches will be plastic which does have a habit of cracking but these panels are only cosmetic as the body is sealed underneath this

Yes it does look a but grubby in the bedroom and in the garage so I would be giving that a good looking at.

It it was me I would be looking at the Flair which is the Arto's big brother and would come with the Alde wet heating (some Arto's do as well).

Here you will find original brochures and a price list but in German of course, http://liner-forum.eu/clou-mobile/n...-clou-liner-broschueren-catalogues-brochures/



Martin
 
nicholsong said:
Poor Jen, did she suffer concussion?

What was her preference when you bought the Morelo? Or has she deferred to your superior wisdom?

Geoff
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Hi Geoff

She has recovered now thanks, when I mentioned the Autotrail episode yesterday she said "it had a nice kitchen" which it did(y) and then she added "I bought the MORELO on it's kitchen" which is good but not as practical as the N+B which again shows how good the Flair was all those years ago.

Martin
 
Jim said:
Who cares what the soft furnishings look like :doh: I've never bought a second-hand van and not refurbed the soft bits. As for the price, it's about right.

It's a great van. if it's not damp and is sound underneath, you'll have just as much fun for your 20k as someone who paid 90 grand has in theirs. And, you'll lose a lot less than they do in depreciation. Best of luck (y)
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but he hasn’t asked about enjoyment or depreciation Jim

it’s seems if your a NB owner your of the warpath and trying to justify your purchase

He’s asked for any pitfalls and things to look out for, well for me the things to look out for are mainly underneath but not only those, and that bit was built by Fiat choose if it was £90k or £190k.
Those bits are at least 17years old so worth mentioning imo.

Al
 
It really comes down to how it has been looked after, I don't think many people would argue that they start out as quality vans but in my 8 years of owning a N+B Flair I have seen some right dogs simply through owner abuse and neglect.

Martin

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i glad there are people with 90k to spend on vans otherwise most of us wouldnt get the fun and enjoyment we get from our 25k vans always best to let some one else pick up the financial hit
all vans do the same thing even mattress in the back transits, they get you out and doing
 
Jim said:
Who cares what the soft furnishings look like :doh: I've never bought a second-hand van and not refurbed the soft bits. As for the price, it's about right.

It's a great van. if it's not damp and is sound underneath, you'll have just as much fun for your 20k as someone who paid 90 grand has in theirs. And, you'll lose a lot less than they do in depreciation. Best of luck (y)
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That's why you buy American vans, that look like a 70's porn set :giggle:
 
jessthedog said:
That's why you buy American vans, that look like a 70's porn set :giggle:
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I've bought a lot more euro/brit vans that I have yanks. And I bow you your knowledge of Porn in the 1970's '\

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Jim said:
He didn't ask if you could live with the interior Al.
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very true Jim but he did ask about pitfalls and “if” he wanted to change the interior to bring it up to date, then as it’s been pointed out earlier it’s around £1500 apparently, so he needs to figure that into the negotiations

that said he may love it that much he may offer above asking :LOL:


Al 😉
 
Al n Val said:
my comment is not unfair it’s just my opinion and laying out another £1500 to make it prettier is for me throwing money at a vehicle which, “in my opinion again”, is already too expensive.

They may rank as being up there with the best and i’m sort of agreeing with you, but that does not make it look fantastic which it clearly doesn’t to me, it may do to you and others including the OP but certainly not me.

So i’m out i’m afraid 😄
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Sorry, I never meant that your comment was "unfair" in the way you portrait it, I accept it's an opinion. Just pointing out not everyone can throw upwards of 50/60/70k at a Motorhome and just pointing out that for someone this is going to be their dream van.

You portrait it as some old rust bucket, it won't be, it will be a steady nice old bus when the right owner throws some more love and time at it.
And, furthermore, when they make a cup of tea in the morning and lift the front blind, they will be exposed to the same view as you will have in that old British wreck of yours :roflmto::roflmto:
 
haganap said:
Sorry, I never meant that your comment was "unfair" in the way you portrait it, I accept it's an opinion. Just pointing out not everyone can throw upwards of 50/60/70k at a Motorhome and just pointing out that for someone this is going to be their dream van.

You portrait it as some old rust bucket, it won't be, it will be a steady nice old bus when the right owner throws some more love and time at it.
And, furthermore, when they make a cup of tea in the morning and lift the front blind, they will be exposed to the same view as you will have in that old British wreck of yours :roflmto::roflmto:
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Is that the autosieve :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
haganap said:
Sorry, I never meant that your comment was "unfair" in the way you portrait it, I accept it's an opinion. Just pointing out not everyone can throw upwards of 50/60/70k at a Motorhome and just pointing out that for someone this is going to be their dream van.

You portrait it as some old rust bucket, it won't be, it will be a steady nice old bus when the right owner throws some more love and time at it.
And, furthermore, when they make a cup of tea in the morning and lift the front blind, they will be exposed to the same view as you will have in that old British wreck of yours :roflmto::roflmto:
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I portray it as he asked pointing out the pitfalls and nothing more apart from the interior is def not for me and the reasons why.

And my old (18mth) british wreck will do me as the layout in some if not most of the Continental vans don’t come close to what we wanted.
It’s not money either that made me buy british, if the layout in a European van could have been found we’d probably have bought it regardless of cost

Al :love:

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