New Motorhome Tax Costs? - 1st Sep 2019

[Simon Select]

If the NCC want folk to lobby their MPs it would be prudent to share their information with the public. It's impossible to lobby without knowing the facts.

I've searched for reliable info sources and have found nothing.

I agree.
You probably won't find anything yet.

 

[Lenny HB]

I've searched for reliable info sources and have found nothing.

Same here, normally any VED increases the government give up to a years notice. I find it difficult to believe that an increase of that magnitude is only a month away and there is no official info.

Sales are down at the moment so is it just an industry scam to try and boost sales?

 

[Simon Select]

Same here, normally any VED increases the government give up to a years notice. I find it difficult to believe that an increase of that magnitude is only a month away and there is no official info.

Sales are down at the moment so is it just an industry scam to try and boost sales?

Well whether you believe me and other dealers or not, 1st September will be the judge...

 

[Lenny HB]

Well whether you believe me and other dealers or not, 1st September will be the judge...

Why is there no official info on any government sites then?

 

[Simon Select]

Why is there no official info on any government sites then?

I have no idea. Could be them trying to do it stealthily? Wouldn't be the first time a tax increase has been snuck through?

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[Blue Knight]

I don't like these tax collections anymore than the next person but IMO this new tax system on MoHo's is perfectly acceptable and fair and, more importantly to me, it helps establish a common tax threshold on higher value items; i.e. all >3.5T vehicles over £40,000.

My main car and motorhome both cost about the same to purchase so why do I now have to pay a much higher VED on the car when my motorhome was the same value and yet pollutes more than my 'every day' wheels.

If someone can afford a new motorhome which, in itself is a highly luxurious item, then, IMO, that same someone can surely afford the relevant taxes, insurances, repairs and fuel to keep it on the road. If you can't afford it then welcome to the real world!

I can recall a thread some weeks ago whereby a Funster had bought a MoHo costing c.£115,000 and then decided to complain about the £1,000 insurance premium that landed through his letterbox. Everyone seems to want everything for nothing these days!

Enough said, I'm jumping off my box to go and put the kettle on.

........
...now shall I choose a mint-flavoured club biscuit or an orange club biscuit; bloody decisions!

 

[mikebeaches]

If the NCC want folk to lobby their MPs it would be prudent to share their information with the public. It's impossible to lobby without knowing the facts.

I've searched for reliable info sources and have found nothing.

Entirely agree.

Here's a story in the Scottish local press (The Courier), reporting Perthshire Caravans have lobbied their MP about the so-called 705% tax increase.

Perthshire Caravans warns of 'devastating impact' of plan to hike tax by 705%

A landmark Tayside company has warned plans that could see tax on motorhomes rise by an incredible 705% could have a "devastating" impact on its business.

www.thecourier.co.uk

 

[Blue Knight]

Why is there no official info on any government sites then?

I'm just guessing here Lenny but I suspect the main reason why the Govt is not making much of a fuss is because the MoHo market is so miniscule that compared to the car/van industry they can afford to introduce it without much of a fallout.

This may well be a big topic to only a handful of people but in the grand scale of things it's a bit of a non story.

That said, the schools are all on holiday at the moment and there are now thousands of kids who won't be getting a proper meal today (certainly the case in my area) so IMO no one really gives a shit about some poor unfortunate motorhomer who may have to pay a few hundred quid more for their £80,000 motorhome.

Just my intake on things.

 

[SpeedyDux]

The problem with taxes that have a threshold such as £40k is that they become regressive and distort the market because HM Treasury likes to keep them fixed and not linked to inflation. It's called fiscal drag.

Eventually the price of a basic family hatchback will cross the £40k "luxury" threshold. Then the proverbial poo will hit the political fan.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

In the anti climate change world of Extinction Rebellion, and other numerous environmental pressures, motorhoming will be a problem. If carbon neutrality is to become a reality, non essential journeys would need elimination. One way to do that is to raise cost so it becomes prohibitive, i.e. tax.

There are numerous problems with the world trying to be greener, especially that our western economies rely on increasing rather than decreasing consumption to create economic growth. The motorhome industry and dealerships are a tiny part of the larger argument. The greater concern would have to be an entire tourist industry. I suspect the minor collateral damage from increased tax discouraging a few motor homes won't worry a government with far bigger headaches to deal with. The biggest downside is it will perhaps keep older less efficient vehicles on the road for longer if newer vehicles are less affordable.

I'm just glad my MH should be ready next weekend so "I'm alright jack"

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[Minxy]

Not anything I can share publicly as it has sensitive contacts etc.
However both of our motorhome brands have emailed us. The NCC have emailed the manufacturers asking them to email the dealers.
This is the first time the NCC have ever asked people to lobby MP's.
Manufacturers are trying to make plans for this when it happens.

I emailed the NCC citing this thread and asking for clarification/info on exactly where the new tax rules can be found ... nothing at all from them to date, not even an acknowledgement. Going by some of their previous stuff, such as the battery testing debacle, unfortunately I don't have a lot of confidence in what they say and I seriously hope that they've got this wrong too!

The NCC need to 'qualify' the information they are giving out so we KNOW for sure it is correct.

 

[Grianan]

That said, the schools are all on holiday at the moment and there are now thousands of kids who won't be getting a proper meal today (certainly the case in my area) so IMO no one really gives a shit about some poor unfortunate motorhomer who may have to pay a few hundred quid more for their £80,000 motorhome.

Quite right Andrew, and thank you for bringing some perspective to this.

Motorhome are a luxury and, as such, the luxury tax is appropriate.

As an aside, my understanding was that the higher VED only applied to < 3.5T, and uprated or heavier vehicles still fell into the commercial HGV bracket.

 

[Sasbo]

I must admit to being confused.

Having read postings on this and other forums (for Jim's benefit they aren't a patch on MHF) there appear to be a number of conflicting views, who's is right and who's wrong I'm not in a position to judge, but here's more food for thought and consideration by those who know and understand more about the subject than I do.

I've a new sub 3500kg motorhome replacing my >3500kg A Class being registered for collection on 2nd September. The supplying dealer has not mentioned any change in VED and the sales invoice has the current VED value shown as part of the total OTR cost.

From another forum, a link was posted to the VCA website and a factsheet that explains the changes resulting from the introduction of WLTP and it's effect on the Co2 rating of the 'car'.

Vehicle Certification Agency

The WLTP is mandatory for all new cars powered by an internal combustion engine. The VCA provides details of the purpose of the WLTP and provide additional resources.

www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk

.

The VCA factsheet refers to i) 'transitionary period, i.e. prior to January 2019' and ii) states ' From the 6th April 2020, the CO2 value obtained under WLTP will be used instead of the NEDC equivalent. When WLTP does start to be used to calculate vehicle tax, it will only affect cars that at that time are unregistered, i.e. the CO2 figure that is used for tax purposes when the car is first registered will not change during its lifetime.'

The VCA factsheet refers to the HM Government 'Vehicle Tax Tool'

Car fuel and CO2 emissions data

Check fuel consumption, CO2 emissions and vehicle tax bands by make model and registration

www.gov.uk

.

This HMG resource links you back to the VCA website to establish the chosen vehicle Co2 rating and ultimately the VED payable. The Fiat Ducato is not listed as a 'car' in the drop down tool boxes.

In both of the above official sources the word 'car' is used and no reference is made to any other vehicle type.

The Fiat Ducato is not included in the 'car' VED tax tool so the key question that no-one officially, or unofficially seems to be able to answer is: as of 1st September 2019 does a sub 3500kg motorhome remain as a M1SP vehicle, currently exempt from the >£40k additional VED rate?

I'm putting a call into my new motorhome supplying dealer tomorrow will post any update.

.........confused, certainly am!!

 

[Deneb]

The Fiat Ducato is not included in the 'car' VED tax tool so the key question that no-one officially, or unofficially seems to be able to answer is: as of 1st September 2019 does a sub 3500kg motorhome remain as a M1SP vehicle, currently exempt from the >£40k additional VED rate?

Can't say anything with regards to the tax situation as no one seems able to produce anything definitive to disprove the possibility that it might just be a case of Chinese whispers.

But a MH with less than 8 seats is a category M1 special purpose vehicle irrespective of UK taxation.

However as a passenger vehicle constructed or adapted to carry no more than 7 passengers plus the driver, if it has an unladen weight of no more than 3050kgs it is also a Motor Car under UK legislation (Road Traffic Act 1988) or if the U/W exceeds 3050kgs it is defined as a Heavy Motor Car.

Whether the vehicle will, if first registered on or after 1st September, be liable to emissions rated taxation as a Petrol Car or a Diesel Car depends on the truth or otherwise of the current rumour/assertion as yet unverified, that the vehicle's CO2 figure will have to be stated on its final stage CoC to enable it to be registered.

It is already the case that, although the CO2 figure is not required to be stated on a MH's CoC, if for any reason the figure is entered, the DVLA have no option but to register it under the appropriate emissions related taxation class. If it is not entered, the vehicle is currently allocated to the PLG or PHGV class, depending on its MGW, and the tax rates applicable to those categories apply.

 

[Sasbo]

Thanks Deneb.

Will ask the dealer tomorrow if any Co2 is shown on the CofC as it's a stock vehicle that I've purchased.

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[Pausim]

I must admit to being confused.

Having read postings on this and other forums (for Jim's benefit they aren't a patch on MHF) there appear to be a number of conflicting views, who's is right and who's wrong I'm not in a position to judge, but here's more food for thought and consideration by those who know and understand more about the subject than I do.

I've a new sub 3500kg motorhome replacing my >3500kg A Class being registered for collection on 2nd September. The supplying dealer has not mentioned any change in VED and the sales invoice has the current VED value shown as part of the total OTR cost.

From another forum, a link was posted to the VCA website and a factsheet that explains the changes resulting from the introduction of WLTP and it's effect on the Co2 rating of the 'car'.

Vehicle Certification Agency

The WLTP is mandatory for all new cars powered by an internal combustion engine. The VCA provides details of the purpose of the WLTP and provide additional resources.

www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk

.

The VCA factsheet refers to i) 'transitionary period, i.e. prior to January 2019' and ii) states ' From the 6th April 2020, the CO2 value obtained under WLTP will be used instead of the NEDC equivalent. When WLTP does start to be used to calculate vehicle tax, it will only affect cars that at that time are unregistered, i.e. the CO2 figure that is used for tax purposes when the car is first registered will not change during its lifetime.'

The VCA factsheet refers to the HM Government 'Vehicle Tax Tool'

Car fuel and CO2 emissions data

Check fuel consumption, CO2 emissions and vehicle tax bands by make model and registration

www.gov.uk

.

This HMG resource links you back to the VCA website to establish the chosen vehicle Co2 rating and ultimately the VED payable. The Fiat Ducato is not listed as a 'car' in the drop down tool boxes.

In both of the above official sources the word 'car' is used and no reference is made to any other vehicle type.

The Fiat Ducato is not included in the 'car' VED tax tool so the key question that no-one officially, or unofficially seems to be able to answer is: as of 1st September 2019 does a sub 3500kg motorhome remain as a M1SP vehicle, currently exempt from the >£40k additional VED rate?

I'm putting a call into my new motorhome supplying dealer tomorrow will post any update.

.........confused, certainly am!!

I also have become progressively more confused as the discussions have proceeded. We have a new motorhome arriving soon but are getting it registered in August not September. We will miss out on the 69 registration plate but the dealer said it would make little or no difference to future value which relies far more on model year and condition. If indeed there is a future tax implication then a 19 plate might even be more sought after than a 69 one? If in doubt perhaps you should consider asking the dealer to register it sooner.

You may also find in the small print of your contract that you have to meet any additional costs because of tax changes before handover. My contract has such a clause.

 

[Blue Knight]

Thanks Deneb.

Will ask the dealer tomorrow if any Co2 is shown on the CofC as it's a stock vehicle that I've purchased.

That should make for an interesting discussion; i.e. it seems that every converter and dealer is aware and yet your chaps have not mentioned it once to you. The NCC, via the dealer network, seem to have stipulated the 1st Sep as the benchmark date so in theory it would matter not if the van was a stock vehicle or a pre-order if registered on or after the 1st.

Good luck ;-)

 

[Blue Knight]

Quite right Andrew, and thank you for bringing some perspective to this.

Motorhome are a luxury and, as such, the luxury tax is appropriate.

Thanks Liz, I just get a bit annoyed when some of these big converters cry the 'poor me' card when in reality they only care about their profits.

If they were really that bothered then they would pull their finger out and start building better quality vans.

I've said it before but I really do think this tax is a good thing; even if it's just to help get rid of a few of the crappy converters who consitently take liberties with their punters.

The whole industry needs a bit of extra regulation IMO

 

[Pausim]

I have just spoken to Sales Admin at my dealer. She says the tax change comes with the new Euro 6D engines, which should have CO2 figures on the Certificate of Conformity. If the engine has Euro 6B or 6C classification without CO2 figures then the old rules apply.

Should make existing stock and orders more attractive?

 

[Kevan]

government, M/H dealers, Ice cream sellers on a hot day, all Rip of merchants

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[Cheshirecat57]

I also have become progressively more confused as the discussions have proceeded. We have a new motorhome arriving soon but are getting it registered in August not September. We will miss out on the 69 registration plate but the dealer said it would make little or no difference to future value which relies far more on model year and condition. If indeed there is a future tax implication then a 19 plate might even be more sought after than a 69 one? If in doubt perhaps you should consider asking the dealer to register it sooner.

You may also find in the small print of your contract that you have to meet any additional costs because of tax changes before handover. My contract has such a clause.

Have you asked them to register it early to save VED or was it their "idea"?

 

[Pausim]

Have you asked them to register it early to save VED or was it their "idea"?

My idea because we want to use it at the end of August and because initially I thought there would be issues registering a Euro 6B or 6C after 1 September. Might put a personalised registration on it anyway.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

My idea because we want to use it at the end of August and because initially I thought there would be issues registering a Euro 6B or 6C after 1 September. Might put a personalised registration on it anyway.

Enjoy it, let us know how it is for you

 

[Sasbo]

Update resulting from 'phone calls made today.

Spoke to suppling dealer and got a similar response to that posted above by @Puasim.

Dealer advised that 'new' VED rates and rules apply to motorhomes that will be supplied with EURO 6D engines, where the Co2 is to be included on the CofC. Dealer went on to say that current '16' and new '69' registrations as of 1st September with EURO 6B or C engines and no Co2 on the CofC will continue at the current VED rates for PLG Class 11 (under 3500kg) and PHGV Class 10 (over 3500kg).

So it would appear from reading through this thread conflicting information being given by dealers?

Made a further call to DVLA who advised they are not aware of any VED changes as of 1st September but clarified this statement by saying they could only confirm VED payable if a registration number was supplied. To be honest the response was somewhat 'wooly' and without a registration number I was unable pursue the issue further.

There you have it, do I trust my dealer and continue with a September registration or register the new motorhome in August? The jury is out as they say!

 

[Chris]

I have no idea. Could be them trying to do it stealthily? Wouldn't be the first time a tax increase has been snuck through?

I have no reason at all to doubt what you say. Why would you make it up?

This is the Government being sly and looking to load the cost onto dealers and the public.

Initial pressure on the dealers though who will be asked for an on the road price

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[Arzedby]

All very confusing isn't it? Whatever the truth of the matter, if it transpires, as I think is likely, that the new VED rates apply to the latest Euro 6D classification, the upshot is that perversely, the newer and less polluting vehicles will be taxed at a higher rate than the older less green models.

 

[Grianan]

All very confusing isn't it? Whatever the truth of the matter, if it transpires, as I think is likely, that the new VED rates apply to the latest Euro 6D classification, the upshot is that perversely, the newer and less polluting vehicles will be taxed at a higher rate than the older less green models.

Yes that irony struck me too. However, O suppose they have to start somewhere.

 

[Pausim]

All very confusing isn't it? Whatever the truth of the matter, if it transpires, as I think is likely, that the new VED rates apply to the latest Euro 6D classification, the upshot is that perversely, the newer and less polluting vehicles will be taxed at a higher rate than the older less green models.

Yes, it is the same with cars, the new system seems to be encouraging us to hang on to less green vehicles.

 

[Minxy]

Yes, it is the same with cars, the new system seems to be encouraging us to hang on to less green vehicles.

.... or buy new greener cars ...

 

[PeteH]

.... or buy new greener cars ...

I`v got an even "Greener" Car, Its 50 years young in 2021. Undergoing major refurb; current But it`s overall (Cradle to Grave) Carbon Footprint is by now miniscule.

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