New motor home tax

[BobtheBass]

If anyone can afford to buy a 50 grand motorhome, another 2 ain't going to make much difference.
Remember if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.

Its not quite as simple as that though is it? For the next 5 years you pay double the amount of VED that your mate pays for his almost identical motorhome that "pollutes" the atmosphere more than yours does. Before you know it you have spent £4000 on extra tax that would have nearly bought you a super self levelling kit, instead the Government have wasted your money on HS2. Are you really saying this wouldnt bug you as it would annoy the socks off me every year at tax renewal time.

 

[Deneb]

Unless anyone can say that they've bought a new van over 3500kg MAM and had to pay the diesel car tax rate (plus luxury vehicle tax) which no-one to my knowledge has yet admitted to, the reason you can't see it is because HM Treasury stated in their briefing paper last year that WLTP CO2 rates should not be used to determine VED rates until April 2020. Expect an announcement in the budget and a new Finance Act setting out the rates for realigned tax tables from April 2020 to April 2021 after that.

But I understand the implication from what I have seen elsewhere is that all Euro 6d/temp engined motorhomes of whatever weight, having a WLTP CO2 figure on their final stage CoC as required by legislation, are likely to be slotted into the Diesel Car VED band (as updated April 2020).

There is a suggestion that any motorhomes built on a base vehicle chassis fitted with a Euro VI engine may still be taxed as PHGV (Euro VI is the heavy-duty vehicle standard for large trucks and buses and is not subject to WLTP testing, the test is carried out on the powerplant alone and not the complete vehicle) which as far as I can make out includes some versions of the Iveco Daily and Mercedes Sprinter chassis over 3500kgs MAM, which can be ordered with either Euro 6d/temp or Euro VI engines.

 

[Deneb]

Its not quite as simple as that though is it? For the next 5 years you pay double the amount of VED that your mate pays for his almost identical motorhome that "pollutes" the atmosphere more than yours does. Before you know it you have spent £4000 on extra tax that would have nearly bought you a super self levelling kit, instead the Government have wasted your money on HS2. Are you really saying this wouldnt bug you as it would annoy the socks off me every year at tax renewal time.

Well, the answer to that is don't buy a new van Legislation is rarely retrospective and older non-conforming vehicles are allowed to gradually diminish in their percentage of the entire vehicle parc through age and natural decay.

If it were, you would expect to have to pay a fortune to upgrade your vehicle to the latest standards or send it to the crusher each time any new legislation was introduced. Triumph Herald with crumple zones, seat belts and airbags, DRLs, Euro 6d/temp engine etc. etc?

 

[Theonlysue]

Euro 6 c will be old rate. Euro 6d will be new rate. Chap on one of the forums got a refund for euro 6c mh.

 

[peterc10]

From the Gov. UK page where I obtained the information

Vehicle tax rates (V149 and V149/1)

Rates of vehicle tax for all types of vehicle.

www.gov.uk

Vehicle tax rates (V149 and V149/1)

• English
• Cymraeg

Rates of vehicle tax for all types of vehicle.
Published 27 March 2013
Last updated 4 October 2019 — see all updates
From:Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency

This includes the various tax tables which show the dates of the relevant table as February 2019

Yes but these changes were brought in much later in 2019.

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[Mikecarruthers]

Hi all
I got my new Autotrail end of July last year it a euro 6 model the road tax is £160 per year if I would of waited for the beginning of sep the tax would of been £2200 for the first year dropping to £460 for the following 4 years then back to the £160. That’s what I was told

 

[tjay]

Would'nt it be great that thousands of motorhome owners decide to drive around the M25 and other motorway sections at 40mph, using all lane at the rush hour am and pm until it was reversed, just as our French neighbours stick together and stand up for themselves !!

 

[tonyidle]

For the next 5 years you pay double the amount of VED that your mate pays for his almost identical motorhome that "pollutes" the atmosphere more than yours does.

As opposed to all those years where you paid half what your mate did when he bought a new car that pollutes less than your van?

 

[Paddywack]

It is a NEW tax it was brought in to pamper to the global warming lobby and the great greta.

Nope.

When was the legislation introduced?

When did Greta gain notoriety?

 

[Pausim]

I think the tax tables and rates are a red herring, they haven’t changed. The only thing that has changed is how motorhomes are classified and treated. As from 01/09/2019 Euro 6D motorhomes with CO2 figures will be classified the same as cars (using existing tax categories). No change in tax rates, just moved into a different but existing classification because the CO2 figures are now given on the official documents.

The old system where we paid less than cars, particularly on heavy motorhomes, is hardly defensible and we aren’t going to get any public sympathy.

The whole system might not make much sense but this is a different issue. I fear expecting special treatment for motorhomes is a lost cause.

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[Coolcats]

Motoring in general is expensive, one of my cars with a 1800 CC k series rover engine costs around £240 per year.

All I can say is just budget for the tax if you have brought a new MoHo any discounts you may receive just put it away in a savings / vehicle running costs and draw it down over the next 4 years.

 

[Slimalex]

What is the rfl on a Hgv at 44 ton?

I don’t think the Government really give a tosh, it’s all about tax revenue and if jobs are,lost at Swift or JLR as a consequence so be it.

 

[Deneb]

What is the rfl on a Hgv at 44 ton?

Up to £2,050 each year at current rates, depending on emissions class and type of suspension I believe.

I don’t think the Government really give a tosh, it’s all about tax revenue and if jobs are,lost at Swift or JLR as a consequence so be it.

I didn't know that JLR made motorhomes

 

[tigerblue]

Glad I bought my new Fifer in June '19 then! New buyers just need to wait for the year end Dealer deals to help compensate.

 

[maison]

I've seen many folk lamenting the tax, but never seen any facts and figures.

Can’t remember the exact sum Yorick but we bought our new motorhome just in time to avoid the new tax system.

From memory, by buying just in time, we saved about £3k over the first three years. As we were going to change within three months of the change it was a no-brainier for us.

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[Slimalex]

Really odd that an Hgv, which could have as clean an engine ie new 2020, pays less rfl than a lighter motorhome.

 

[Deneb]

Really odd that an Hgv, which could have as clean an engine ie new 2020, pays less rfl than a lighter motorhome.

The motorhome doesn't pay more than £2,050 every year!!! The majority of the first year cost is the luxury car tax. 2nd tax is substantially less and by year 7 it's £140 a year at current rates.

But VED rates have always tended to favour vehicles used to transport essential goods and services, whereas it's difficult to envisage a motorhome being anything other than a non-essential lifestyle choice and I suspect that the majority of people who don't own or have any aspiration to own one would regard it as a luxury item.

We would all pay indirectly for higher commercial vehicle VED rates as they would filter through to the end cost of almost everything you buy, send or deliver.

 

[Pausim]

Really odd that an Hgv, which could have as clean an engine ie new 2020, pays less rfl than a lighter motorhome.

It does not surprise me that private use of a vehicle is treated less favourably than trade use. However, I think we get away light on MOTs and driver records.

 

[peterc10]

Really odd that an Hgv, which could have as clean an engine ie new 2020, pays less rfl than a lighter motorhome.

As I understand it in the future the rates will be the same for motorhomes whatever their weight.

I am happy to say that my 2015 4.5T Hymer still has no emission figures on its V5, so I will still be paying £165 a year. Having said that I agree that that is an anomaly that needs to be got rid of in the future.

 

[Deneb]

I am happy to say that my 2015 4.5T Hymer still has no emission figures on its V5

It never will unless you submitted it for individual testing, but it still wouldn't matter because the VED system it is allocated to at first registration can't subsequently be changed. So you are stuck with PHGV.

That's not to say that the government won't decide to raise some or all of the old non-emissions VED class rates substantially at a future budget.

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[Deneb]

It does not surprise me that private use of a vehicle is treated less favourably than trade use. However, I think we get away light on MOTs and driver records.

And operator licensing conditions

 

[JustifiedAncient]

I don't know. I have seen a few posts on various forums asking people to confirm whether they have had to pay the increased rate, but none were answered.
.....
Any Euro 6d/temp engined vehicle first registered since last September had to have the WLTP CO2 figure included on its CoC, including multi-stage build vehicles.

HM Treasury stated that WLTP CO2 figures should not be used to determine VED rates until April 2020, when presumably realigned tax bands will have been introduced following the impending budget and associated Finance Act.

But, existing legislation already requires motorhomes to be taxed under emissions related VED bands if a CO2 figure is included on the final stage CoC.

So I don't know how DVLA are currently dealing with Eu6d/temp vehicles registered since last September, only that there seems to be a dearth of actual evidence from anyone admitting they have had to pay the higher tax rate.

Well we had to pay the increased tax on the Fiat Ducato 6d based PVC we got in December.
I have now received the V5C and both stage 1 and stage 2 CoCs from DVLA and they make confusing reading to be honest when combined with the various sources of information on what to expect.

1) We were charged £1815 plus a first registration fee of £55 making £1870 total for road tax.
2) The Fiat stage 1 CoC shows a CO2 figure of 218g/Km under a section that I think refers to NEDC values. The section for WLTP values is blank.
3) The WildAx stage 2 CoC hasn't got values entered for CO2 emissions.
4) The V5C shows a figure of 218g/Km so agrees with the data on the stage 1 CoC.
5) Our vehicle is a 140bhp Fiat Euro 6d 9 speed auto.

Now this is where I get confused:
Some websites and sources say that first year RFL is based on CO2 emissions, but many are just quoting a blanket £2135. The figure of £1815 implies that our MH is in the non-RDE2 category going by the list of VED rates on the government charts.
Page 30 of Febs MMM refers to some 140bhp Fiat 6d engines being able to be registered under NEDC rules and save £575 from the £2135 figure (so £1560?).

So, do I have a case for claiming I have been incorrectly charged?

 

[PeteH]

Triumph Herald with crumple zones, seat belts and airbags,

Oi!!. You leave my Motor out of this:-

As opposed to all those years where you paid half what your mate did when he bought a new car that pollutes less than your van?

Ah!! But you did far less miles?. So the effect would be levelled out?. All my cars did more miles than the motorhome. I always did favour the VED being scrapped. A one off fee for registration or change of owner, and put the Tax on fuel. Much fairer system all round IMV?.

 

[tonyidle]

Oi!!. You leave my Motor out of this:- View attachment 356906






Ah!! But you did far less miles?. So the effect would be levelled out?. All my cars did more miles than the motorhome. I always did favour the VED being scrapped. A one off fee for registration or change of owner, and put the Tax on fuel. Much fairer system all round IMV?.

Far too sensible

 

[gus-lopez]

Would'nt it be great that thousands of motorhome owners decide to drive around the M25 and other motorway sections at 40mph, using all lane at the rush hour am and pm until it was reversed, just as our French neighbours stick together and stand up for themselves !!

You'd never be able to achieve 40mph & if you did people would thank you for raising the average speed.

That's not to say that the government won't decide to raise some or all of the old non-emissions VED class rates substantially at a future budget.

& this is why the scamming barstewards won't ever remove the ved & put it on fuel as they'd lose the ability to fleece people.

So, do I have a case for claiming I have been incorrectly charged?

As it is before April 2020 I would think so.

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[Deneb]

Well we had to pay the increased tax on the Fiat Ducato 6d based PVC we got in December.
I have now received the V5C and both stage 1 and stage 2 CoCs from DVLA and they make confusing reading to be honest when combined with the various sources of information on what to expect.

1) We were charged £1815 plus a first registration fee of £55 making £1870 total for road tax.
2) The Fiat stage 1 CoC shows a CO2 figure of 218g/Km under a section that I think refers to NEDC values. The section for WLTP values is blank.
3) The WildAx stage 2 CoC hasn't got values entered for CO2 emissions.
4) The V5C shows a figure of 218g/Km so agrees with the data on the stage 1 CoC.
5) Our vehicle is a 140bhp Fiat Euro 6d 9 speed auto.

Now this is where I get confused:
Some websites and sources say that first year RFL is based on CO2 emissions, but many are just quoting a blanket £2135. The figure of £1815 implies that our MH is in the non-RDE2 category going by the list of VED rates on the government charts.
Page 30 of Febs MMM refers to some 140bhp Fiat 6d engines being able to be registered under NEDC rules and save £575 from the £2135 figure (so £1560?).

So, do I have a case for claiming I have been incorrectly charged?

The amount of tax looks correct for the data on your stage 1 CoC. Euro 6d/temp is not the same as RDE2. Manufacturers don't have to meet RDE2 until 2021 I think, although there are a few (but not that many) engines that are already compliant.

You haven't been taxed on a WLTP value, if that section is blank.

As I understand it, either converters were either only submitting the final stage CoC previously, which as is the case with yours, having no CO2 value stated would ensure that the vehicle was taxed in the PLG or PHGV class according to its MAM, or DVLA were ignoring any values on previous stage CoCs if the final stage CoC was blank.

DVLA appear to have allocated your vehicle to a graduated (emissions) VED band due to the CO2 value supplied on your first stage CoC, and the tax that you have paid seems correct for that VED class.

The only question is whether, since last September, that is now the correct approach. Whilst it doesn't directly contradict the information on the government website, valid since 2017, I presume converters have previously either not submitted any CoCs other than their final stage certificate (without a CO2 value) or DVLA have previously only acted on the final stage certificate?

The total tax increase claimed by dealers and the trade was always in part an exercise in marketing and FUD, as it assumes that all affected motorhomes will exceed the 255g/km emissions value in the graduated tax rate tables, whereas in fact relatively few will probably exceed that figure.