New motor home tax

[Deneb]

Yes that is correct but I also thought that people had been charged it already ?

I don't know. I have seen a few posts on various forums asking people to confirm whether they have had to pay the increased rate, but none were answered.

I know some dealers were advertising that they would pay the additional tax on new orders made at the NEC in October. That could have been a handy marketing tool if it convinced customers to sign on the dotted line when there was no additional cost involved unless delivery was post April this year?

However, there are two elements to this that affect motorhomes, which make the situation unclear.

They have previously avoided emissions based VED because of the multi-stage build loophole allowing a final stage CoC to be issued without the CO2 figure included.

Any Euro 6d/temp engined vehicle first registered since last September had to have the WLTP CO2 figure included on its CoC, including multi-stage build vehicles.

HM Treasury stated that WLTP CO2 figures should not be used to determine VED rates until April 2020, when presumably realigned tax bands will have been introduced following the impending budget and associated Finance Act.

But, existing legislation already requires motorhomes to be taxed under emissions related VED bands if a CO2 figure is included on the final stage CoC.

So I don't know how DVLA are currently dealing with Eu6d/temp vehicles registered since last September, only that there seems to be a dearth of actual evidence from anyone admitting they have had to pay the higher tax rate.

 

[Gromett]

It will make a£50,000 van £52,000? I don't see that as
a) Having much effect on people buying them
b) Having any effect on the amount of pollution produced.

As I buy vans that are 10 years old then run them for 10 years I can wait till 2030, buy an early 2020 van and run it until 2040.

Hopefully long before then there will be EV vans with full autonomy on the second hand market I can buy.

 

[Deneb]

I have been self employed for well over 20 years in the UK and, until very recently, I was also VAT registered. I would be very interested to find out about these "plenty of legal ways to reclaim VAT on cars".

Having never been self employed or run a business I don't know, but there is obviously some type of financial advantage to be gained by putting a vehicle though the company books.

I base this on the fact that one of my neighbours has two expensive luxury cars sat on his driveway, which are replaced annually. One of them never moves and the current one has only been started twice in the last 8 months, both times by the RAC who he called out because the battery was flat. The other is regularly driven off the drive to be parked at the roadside or back on the driveway, and very occasionally travels about 150 yds to the local pub car park and back. Currently it is parked in the road outside and has not moved for well over a month.

Both will make excellent bargains for subsequent purchasers as low mileage cars in good condition (not)!

 

[georgio]

Good afternoon,

I regard it as a wealth tax. Do not forget that owners and users of 4x4 pickup trucks have been getting cheaper tax and there has been a huge increase in sales of those.

 

[Deneb]

It will make a£50,000 van £52,000? I don't see that as
a) Having much effect on people buying them
b) Having any effect on the amount of pollution produced.

As I buy vans that are 10 years old then run them for 10 years I can wait till 2030, buy an early 2020 van and run it until 2040.

Hopefully long before then there will be EV vans with full autonomy on the second hand market I can buy.

Also remember that the "new" tax rates after year 6 are at least £120 a year less than the current PLG rates, so if you intend keeping the van for some time or buying used, the upfront cost is not as much as it first appears.

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[Yorick]

Lots of unhappy folk. Just wonder if we'll see anybody come on and say how happy they are that they got away with it for a while due to the loophole in the law?

 

[BobtheBass]

Lots of unhappy folk. Just wonder if we'll see anybody come on and say how happy they are that they got away with it for a while due to the loophole in the law?

I am very happy to have got away with it for several years due to a loophole in the law. It's not a guilt trip though as the tax has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with being another avenue for indirect taxation by whichever government is in power at the time, i.e., revenue collection aimed at people they think can afford it. Just a normal day at the office for a branch of the Civil Service.

 

[Crazylegs]

No because new engines have to conform to the latest requirements. If the dealer has older stock of the same model with the old engine, then yes. But the derogation to allow them to register vehicles with older engines is limited.

‘‘Tis true this, but working within the motor trade I hear rumours and gossip that there are thousands of unsold van and chassis cabs from various manufacturers sitting in compounds that only conform to euro 6. So anybody who is fortunate enough to be considering a new van purchase would be well advised to clarify exactly what engine is fitted to your intended purchase.

 

[Deneb]

Lots of unhappy folk. Just wonder if we'll see anybody come on and say how happy they are that they got away with it for a while due to the loophole in the law?

Personally I was always unhappy that I had to pay up to £265 a year for PLG rate when other people with vehicle having engines of less than 1.6 litres capacity "got away" with £160 (at current rates).

And then the year before VED would have been free on my Capri when it became 25 years old, they changed the exemption to 40 years old, so I had to keep paying the higher PLG rate on that as well.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Challenge away
i wasnt trying to start an argument just point out the the “New tax” is not a “new” tax

I wasnt “taking a position” but clearly inadvertently left the door open just wide enough for you to do so

It is a NEW tax it was brought in to pamper to the global warming lobby and the great greta. All vhicle used to pay the same then fuel typ was pampered to then the carbon tax now the particulates . LPG was the great new fuel then diesel for economy now the electric models with their hugely expensive batteries. The private HGV is the next to go in the next budget as they close the loopholes one by one. Same tax as any other commercial vehicle. Red diesel for industrial and agricultural use to be phased out?

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[Jaws]

wrong thread !

 

[PeteH]

My current understanding is that. IF the "emissions" figure is on your V5, the tax applicable to that Band is due. IF not figure is shown then the Tax due is that of Either below 3.5t, (£260-00) or above 3,5t (£165-00).

 

[joka250]

If you are confused by any of the above then have read of page 30 of February issue of MMM.

 

[Yorick]

If you are confused by any of the above then have read of page 30 of February issue of MMM.

Wassat ?

 

[Lenny HB]

at least this tax isn’t being applied retrospectively as it did with cars, my car back in 2007 jumped to £600 / year from £200 with increase to £800 due 2 years later, made it virtually impossible to sell and only applied 2 years after I bought it

A similar thing happened to me, a 2006 Kia Sedona I bought in Sept., 2006 in 2010/2011 the road tax went from £220 to £460 if the same vehicle had been registered in March 2006 it would have stayed at £220. Even more annoying the emissions limit for the lower tax was 225gm/km my vehicle was 226gm/km.

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[Daedalus]

I suspect that this is a dangerous question to ask, given that I will likely get conflicting answers, but here goes.

Can anybody confirm with certainty whether or not this increase applies to motorhomes over 3.5t please?

According to the VED Tables the Private Heavy Goods Category (3500Kgs to 7500Kgs) will remain the same - see https://assets.publishing.service.g...a/file/770275/v149x1-rates-of-vehicle-tax.pdf - Look at Band AO

 

[chaser]

If anyone can afford to buy a 50 grand motorhome, another 2 ain't going to make much difference.
Remember if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.

 

[Lenny HB]

If anyone can afford to buy a 50 grand motorhome, another 2 ain't going to make much difference.
Remember if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.

Very true, we aren't rich, Motorhome comes out of our hard earned savings but if we buy another one an extra 2K on 70 or 80k won't stop us.

Manufacturers are just using it as an excuse to blame someone else.

 

[joka250]

Wassat ?

MMM a magazine. If I had the energy I'd type out the details but I'd probably get it wrong. I'll try and scan a copy when I get home.

 

[joka250]

According to the VED Tables the Private Heavy Goods Category (3500Kgs to 7500Kgs) will remain the same - see https://assets.publishing.service.g...a/file/770275/v149x1-rates-of-vehicle-tax.pdf - Look at Band AO

My understanding and I accept I may be wrong is that these rates are not appropriate to Euro IV d engined vehicles and in some but not all cases the much higher rates will apply. The quoted table is valid from April 2019. Changes have been made since then. I am still trying to find official confirmation of various magazine articles on the subject. When I spoke to a representative from DVLA he gave an answer I couldn't understand and told me to speak to my dealer.

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[Daedalus]

My understanding and I accept I may be wrong is that these rates are not appropriate to Euro IV d engined vehicles and in some but not all cases the much higher rates will apply. The quoted table is valid from April 2019. Changes have been made since then. I am still trying to find official confirmation of various magazine articles on the subject. When I spoke to a representative from DVLA he gave an answer I couldn't understand and told me to speak to my dealer.

The last update was 04 October 2019, it makes no mention of any change to Private HGV.
I'm not surprised you couldn't get an understandable answer from DVLA - I never could even when I was in the game.
Oh, and the increases only apply to new vehicles, the older vehicles do not attract this massive increase.

 

[peterc10]

According to the VED Tables the Private Heavy Goods Category (3500Kgs to 7500Kgs) will remain the same - see https://assets.publishing.service.g...a/file/770275/v149x1-rates-of-vehicle-tax.pdf - Look at Band AO

As I feared that conflicts with other answers on this thread. I can't see any mention of motorhomes on this table and I think they are classified as M1 for taxation purposes but may be wrong on that.

 

[joka250]

My last post predictive text (or my dimness) showed Euro IV d this should have read Euro VI D/2 engines. There are a multitude of government reports giving what I feel are conflicting or difficult to understand facts. Not definitive but 4 large dealerships I have asked today say if it's Euro VI D/2 it's at the higher rate.

 

[joka250]

Commons briefing paper CBP 8639 states "all motor homes, motor caravans and camper vans".

 

[Daedalus]

As I feared that conflicts with other answers on this thread. I can't see any mention of motorhomes on this table and I think they are classified as M1 for taxation purposes but may be wrong on that.

Reference "Motorhomes" take a look at - https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables

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[joka250]

Reference "Motorhomes" take a look at - https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables

Sorry to keep contradicting but that is dated April 2017. NEC for what it's worth are advising all members that latest spec Euro VI D/2 vehicles at higher rate above or below 3500kgs.

 

[peterc10]

Reference "Motorhomes" take a look at - https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables

But that is back in 2017. Things have changed since then and are changing again in April 2020.

Edit, been beaten too it

 

[joka250]

But that is back in 2017. Things have changed since then and are changing again in April 2020.

Edit, been beaten too it

Sorry Peter, I wouldn't normally be that quick but for better or worse I've got the bit between my teeth. I'm absolutely certain you are right.

 

[Daedalus]

Sorry to keep contradicting but that is dated April 2017. NEC for what it's worth are advising all members that latest spec Euro VI D/2 vehicles at higher rate above or below 3500kgs.

From the Gov. UK page where I obtained the information

Vehicle tax rates (V149 and V149/1)

Rates of vehicle tax for all types of vehicle.

www.gov.uk

Vehicle tax rates (V149 and V149/1)

• English
• Cymraeg

Rates of vehicle tax for all types of vehicle.
Published 27 March 2013
Last updated 4 October 2019 — see all updates
From:Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency

This includes the various tax tables which show the dates of the relevant table as February 2019

 

[joka250]

From my brief research of dealerships today if you order a new motorhome of any weight with Euro 6D2 engine they will add on VEDat the new higher level. National Caravan Council support that opinion. The Commons briefing paper i quoted also supports that.

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