Why oh Why after all these years, has the Health and Safety exec not forced the DOT to ban these buggers off the road and put them into velodromes where they belong...?
NC500 now being advertised for Cyclists
- Thread starter Otter Spotter
- Start date
OP
OP
It's been a "thing" for cyclists and bikers since it was launched as a tourist route in 2015 - and prior to that was part of one of the standard end-to-end routes for those who were spending a few weeks doing LEJoG rather than doing it at pace. So this isn't new.
From 2019
From 2016
Mark Beaumont's North Coast 500 | Cycling UK
This 500-mile loop around the North Highland coast is perfect cycling country. Unless, like adventurer, broadcaster and Cycling UK member Mark Beaumont, you do it in 38 hours.www.cyclinguk.org
And on the biker and cycling forums they complain about motorhomers spoiling the route
Was always on my cycling to do list well before 1st motorhome
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After doing the complete 500 and parts of it several times , in my opinion the worst and most inconsiderate road users are the motorhomers……and it’s not just the ‘hire’ motorhomes.
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And the legal advice . . .
www.theaa.com
Careless driving: Driving without due care and attention | The AA
Everything you need to know about careless driving. Find out what counts as careless driving, minor breaches of the Highway Code, and penalties and fines.
www.theaa.com
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And the legal advice . . .
Careless driving: Driving without due care and attention | The AA
Everything you need to know about careless driving. Find out what counts as careless driving, minor breaches of the Highway Code, and penalties and fines.
NOTE: It only applies to a 'mechanically propelled vehicle', so not to cyclists.
Jamesh
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No not an anti bike thread just flagging up some idiots idea to make more money on the misery of both travellers and locals. When you have seen all the adverse publicity on the NC500 (whether justified or not) why add weight of traffic and fuel to the fire ?
Except a bicycle is a mechanically propelled 'vehicle' in the eye of the law . . . . .
Sorry, that's wrong. It's the motive power, not having cogs, that makes it mechanically propelled. A bicycle is muscle propelled.
Road Traffic Act 1988
Road Traffic Act 1988
An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to road traffic with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.
Being mechanically propelled makes it a motor cycle. Not being a motor vehicle makes it a cycle.
If bicycles were classified as mechanically propelled in the eyes of the law, then under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 they would be subject to VED.
Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994
An Act to consolidate the enactments relating to vehicle excise duty and the registration of vehicles.
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I believe it as it's fact study after study show cycling is not the course of congestion. It depends at times it's not safe to do or it's not you have no place to do so. If it's not safe to pass than you have to wait until it's safe to do so that's in the highway code too. Sorry but cycling in numbers is not arrogance or the the problem.|Traffic number and a total unsuitable road net work is.White paint on the road or magic blue signs on pavements don't count. If true Cycling on road was invested in then we'd go a long way to changing mind sets and have a good chance to deal with all round health and environmental challengers we are facing. I doubt many on here will change mindsets given the posts in most of this forum are mostly of the same anti "daily hate" closed minds on most views.
Better not talk about riding in primary position.
Jamesh
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To chat!!!
OP
OP
There’s sufficient tech available for them to chat without riding next to each other and I don’t mean mobile phones which of course is illegal
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Cyclists ride two abreast and in groups because it is safer, more sociable and easier for cars to overtake in most situations.
A sensible question wanting to better understand cycling so more than happy to reply.
Safety is one , quicker for others to pass than all in a single line, if it's a club run it can be to offer help, advice and encuragment to newer riders/members. Can be to hear institutions from the group ride leader. Or confirm other riders shouting out warning of oncoming hazards. Or confirming hand singles of oncoming hazards. Or as the daily hate article once called it "cyclist secret code". (and no we are talking about the middle finger, our 2 fingers before anyone starts thinking that)
Cyclists two abreast are roughly the same width as a car.
A tight group of say six cyclists riding two abreast is as easy to overtake as a slow car.
Those same six cyclists in a single line needs an overtaking vehicle to be encroaching on the other side of the road for twice as long, which is harder to find a gap and more dangerous. Unless the overtaker doesn't give them a safe amount of room and skims their elbows with his mirror.
In many circumstances it's actually better for motorists the cyclists to be two abreast as it's easier, faster and safer to overtake. A very large group should split up into smaller groups with space between, allowing motorists to "island hop" up through them, taking overtaking opportunities as they arise and ducking back in safely.
A tight group of say six cyclists riding two abreast is as easy to overtake as a slow car.
Those same six cyclists in a single line needs an overtaking vehicle to be encroaching on the other side of the road for twice as long, which is harder to find a gap and more dangerous. Unless the overtaker doesn't give them a safe amount of room and skims their elbows with his mirror.
In many circumstances it's actually better for motorists the cyclists to be two abreast as it's easier, faster and safer to overtake. A very large group should split up into smaller groups with space between, allowing motorists to "island hop" up through them, taking overtaking opportunities as they arise and ducking back in safely.
Might be wrong, there again, if bicycles are covered (amongst other things) by the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations (which they are) perhaps it is not such a simple thing as what the source of the power that works the mechanicals is?Sorry, that's wrong. It's the motive power, not having cogs, that makes it mechanically propelled. A bicycle is muscle propelled.
Road Traffic Act 1988
Road Traffic Act 1988
An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to road traffic with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.www.legislation.gov.uk
Being mechanically propelled makes it a motor cycle. Not being a motor vehicle makes it a cycle.
If bicycles were classified as mechanically propelled in the eyes of the law, then under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 they would be subject to VED.
Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994
An Act to consolidate the enactments relating to vehicle excise duty and the registration of vehicles.
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My comment was not specifically about congestion, it was about (many) cyclists failing to stop to clear following traffic (be that a single vehicle, or a queue of vehicles).
Indeed, there will be occasions when it’s unsafe for a cyclist to pull over and following traffic will have to wait for a safe overtaking opportunity or for an opportunity for the cyclist to pull over. Each situation is different and there is a responsibility on both parties to behave responsibly and courteously.
Again, my comment wasn’t suggesting that cycling in numbers was arrogance but rather that resolutely refusing to pull over to allow following traffic to make progress was arrogance.
Agreed, however, we have what we have and we all have to make the best of it. I won’t comment on mindsets.
Agreed. However, that rather depends on the size of the peleton.
True when we’re referring to six cyclists but untrue when it comes to higher numbers. I’ve yet to see a large group break themselves up into adequately spaced smaller groups. That may be down to simply not encountering enough groups to witness alternative behaviour. If it isn’t presumptuous of me to assume that you are a regular group rider, may I ask what is the normal practice in your group outings?
I’m curious, what sort of instructions might a group ride leader be giving?
Agreed.
Agreed. Does it happen in reality?
Ian
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The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations covers vehicles on the road. This includes horse drawn, for example, which is clearly not mechanically propelled.
In fact, if you read that, it defines pedal cycles as
i.e. it specifically states that they are NOT mechanically propelled!
The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989
On a well organised club run, yes.
A random bunch of commuters who happen to be riding at the same pace, less likely - as they aren't a group any more than a stream of motor vehicles is a group.
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Scenario:
Single-track road
Two cyclists adjacent to a passing place which is 1/2 mile from a bus which is adjacent to another passing place.
Neither knows the purpose of the other - work, school, tourism etc.
The bus will cover the 1/2 mile @ 30mph in 1 min. The cyclists at 10 mph in 3 min.
Who should stop in the passing place?
Single-track road
Two cyclists adjacent to a passing place which is 1/2 mile from a bus which is adjacent to another passing place.
Neither knows the purpose of the other - work, school, tourism etc.
The bus will cover the 1/2 mile @ 30mph in 1 min. The cyclists at 10 mph in 3 min.
Who should stop in the passing place?
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I regularly cycle in groups. Optimum number is 8; 2 abreast, 4 per column. Instructions from the ride leader include directions, adjusting speed do all are comfortable and confirming other arrangements that might vary. All riders are expected to call out to notify other of obstacles or other features requiring a change of position on the road, such as potholes.
Most events I've cycled with aim to cycle in groups that enable others to overtake. I've yet to see a larger group (eg. Over 12) holding up traffic. I tend to ride in smaller groups because communication is easier but I can understand the fun of riding in a larger group if all riders are competent.
I've rarely seen cyclists deliberately holding up traffic but a growing number of car drivers seem increasingly impatient and there is a growing frequency of drivers overtaking the groups that I ride with when they are too close to us or they pull in very close to us. Similarly, there are frequent occasions when car drivers coming towards us swerve towards us to try and intimidate us.
If you or others joined a group of cyclists on a ride, you have a high chance of finding out why many cyclists have a very low tolerance of the entitled rubbish that some car / lorry etc drivers spout.
Pedal cycle "A vehicle . . . " I rest my caseThe Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations covers vehicles on the road. This includes horse drawn, for example, which is clearly not mechanically propelled.
In fact, if you read that, it defines pedal cycles as
i.e. it specifically states that they are NOT mechanically propelled!
The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989
Jim
Ringleader
I've noted that the drivers who hate cyclists most, the ones who remonstrate too much or drive too close are often the fattest and you can smell their tobacco for a full minute after they pass. When you think about it, jealousy must be driving the hate. !['\](/forum/styles/default/xenforo//smilies/oldsmilies/bigGrin.gif "BigGrin '\")
Stop the hate, stop the fags and buy a bike, fat people can cycle too, I should know
Stop the hate, stop the fags and buy a bike, fat people can cycle too, I should know
In law, a bicycle is defined as a carriage for use on the highway, but cyclists are not in charge of ‘mechanically propelled’ vehicles so, in law, do not have to adhere to exactly the same rules as motorists, including ‘drink drive’ rules.
Cycling and the Law, Know Your Rights | ETA
Get free legal advice on cycling and the law with every ETA Cycle Insurance policy. Ask questions and stay informed and protected.
www.eta.co.uk
Pedal cycle "A vehicle . . . " I rest my case
I never said it wasn't a vehicle - it is (except under certain circumstances where pushing it makes it count as baggage).
Is is NOT a mechanically propelled vehicle, which is what you were claiming.
So parts of the law that apply to all vehicles (horse drawn, whatever) generally apply to bicycles. Parts that are for mechanically propelled or motor vehicles don't. So, for example, a "no vehicles" sign also bans bicycles, a "no motor vehicles" sign doesn't. The earlier link you provided about the rules applying to mechanically propelled vehicles don't apply to bicycles.
It is a common misunderstanding though. As a cyclist it's common to have a motorist yell at you, throw things at you, or aim their vehicle at you for not following a rule that only exists in their head.
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