MOTORHOME AVERAGE PAYLOAD

[Spriddler]

Barbecue Carri Cheff + tongs etc
Basic toolkit
Bedding
Beers x 4
Bicycles lightweight x2
Bike rack
Chairs x 2
Crockery
Cutlery
Dry Food Goods
Fist Aid Kit
Fridge Contents
Grey water bucket
Hose and adapters
Houshold Cleaning
Kettle
Levelling ramps
Pegs and Mallet
Satnav
Alarm
Sauce pans
Second battery
11kg Gas spare
Inverter
silver screens
Solar and Regulator
Table
Toaster
toilet chemical Tank and Rinse
Toilet Roll x 2
warning triangle
Windbreak
Wine bottles x 2

Maybe I misunderstand 'essentials' but most m/h that I see have.......
Wind-out awning
T.V.
Sat dish

 

[StephDeLux]

Maybe I misunderstand 'essentials' but most m/h that I see have.......
Wind-out awning
T.V.
Sat dish

We have no plan to ever carry an awning nor a sat dish. Ditto for solar panels and bikes. That's about 100 kilos right there.

Now, we do have our caprices :

• an oven and grill in the van: +29 kgs
• at some stage HPC leveling jacks: 45 kgs - 10 kgs for the jack - 6 kilos for the ramps = about 30 kgs net

Total weight of the extras we put on the order form: 160 kilos.

All in all, we'll be comfortably under the limit with a B license and our short van (6.74 meters).

 

[Jim]

Maybe I misunderstand 'essentials' but most m/h that I see have.......
Wind-out awning
T.V.
Sat dish

I didn't include awnings or TV in the average as mostly they are already installed and included and accounted for in MIRO.

Sat dishes are a yesterday item, so chose no to include those either. Of course, if you add one they will need to be accounted for

 

[Lenny HB]

I didn't include awnings or TV in the average as mostly they are already installed and included and accounted for in MIRO.

German vans account for probably over 75% of the vans made in Europe and they are not standard on them.
Only standard on a few Brit vans.

 

[Pausim]

I didn't include awnings or TV in the average as mostly they are already installed and included and accounted for in MIRO.

Sat dishes are a yesterday item, so chose no to include those either. Of course, if you add one they will need to be accounted for

When I was choosing a new motorhome last year the awnings were all factory fitted extras, adding 30 to 50kg to the quoted MIRO and reducing the payload accordingly. Perhaps it varies between manufacturers.

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[Jim]

When I was choosing a new motorhome last year the awnings were all factory fitted extras, adding 30 to 50kg to the quoted MIRO and reducing the payload accordingly. Perhaps it varies between manufacturers.

They should make it clear. Most makers do, as clear as mud

 

[Jim]

German vans account for probably over 75% of the vans made in Europe and they are not standard on them.
Only standard on a few Brit vans.

They are weighty items and can easily be 10kg a metre

 

[Pausim]

They should make it clear. Most makers do, as clear as mud

I was looking at Hymer and Carthago and both of them clearly list the cost and weight of all the options. Carthago gave a very clear example calculation of how to arrive at a payload figure.

On the downside they put the bit about the 5% tolerance they are allowed on weights in the small print and they seem to make full use of this.

 

[Jim]

I was looking at Hymer and Carthago and both of them clearly list the cost and weight of all the options. Carthago gave a very clear example calculation of how to arrive at a payload figure.
View attachment 332433
On the downside they put the bit about the 5% tolerance they are allowed on weights in the small print and they seem to make full use of this.

Most makers do make an attempt at transparency, that looks like comprehensive information but it leaves me scratching my head. I just want to know what the payload actually is, not what it might be with loads of permutations

 

[Pausim]

Most makers do make an attempt at transparency, that looks like comprehensive information but it leaves me scratching my head. I just want to know what the payload actually is, not what it might be with loads of permutations

I guess part of the problem is we all have different ideas about what is essential. I was happy to have the drop down bed replaced with cupboards in my new mh, saving 40kg but for others this would not be right. I like having lots of options because I get what I want not what the manufacturer thinks the average customer will be attracted by but may never use.

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[Jim]

Using their figures for the Compactline Super Lightweight. If we assume their weight in ready to drive condition is MIRO . 2795KG

Remove the imaginary driver's weight from MIRO and we have a figure to work from 2725KG

The extras in their example . 113kg

Funster Van essentials. 180 KG
Person 1 is 14st 89kg +22kg allowance = 111 KG
Person 2 is 11st 70KG + +22kg allowance = 92 KG
Water 20 Litres. 20 KG
Max weight carried 403 KG

A healthy spare payload of 259KG. which means we could add two more 11st people, (it is a 4 berth) travel with full tanks and a couple of cases of beer and still be OK. Superlightweight it is.

 

[pandas]

Most makers do make an attempt at transparency, that looks like comprehensive information but it leaves me scratching my head. I just want to know what the payload actually is, not what it might be with loads of permutations

Talking of permutations I think this subject has highlighted how varied the payloads are and what peoples understanding of their payloads are. I notice you are also becoming very defensive. Adding up the Manufacturers figures plus the fitted options by the manufacturer, the dealer, third party or DIY should be a really easy task - create a spreadsheet put the weight against each item and take that weight off your MTPLM as rated on the vehicle plate. That leaves you the Payload that is left for all you own bits and bobs, albeit 'essentials' or not. If you have dogs, fishing rods, paddle boards, bottles of wine or whatever will be very specific to every owner and I still believe is impossible to make general call. However it should be relatively easy for people to communicate what average payload they put into their own vehicles understanding it will vary according to seasons and type of trip. You might then by an average of those responses get an average payload - or may not.

 

[Jim]

I'm sorry Panda, you keep having a pop, I don't know why. But thanks for your explanation of payload.

 

[SpeedyDux]

I like to keep things simple otherwise my brain hurts.

What I have gleaned from this discussion and similar threads, rightly or wrongly, is that a sensible starting point seems to be a minimum of 700kg nominal user payload for 2 persons, before you add the weight of factory / dealer fitted options, assuming that you can rely on the quoted MIRO at all.

Is that a reasonable albeit simplistic conclusion?

 

[Jim]

The more I look the less of a scandal I see. When I apply our averages, even to a British 3.5t 6 berth motorhome. We come in under the payload.

MIRO 2940 Let's remove the driver, because we will add him back later 2865KG . This gives us a payload of 635 KG (3500-2865=635)

Let's add some realistic averages

Funster Van essentials. 180 KG
Dad is 14st 89kg +22kg allowance = 111 KG
Mum is 11st 70KG + +22kg allowance = 92 KG
Child 1 6st . 38KG +22 60KG
Child 2 4st 25 KG +22 46KG
Child 3 2st 12KG +22 36KG
Child 4 2st 12KG +22 36KG
Water 20 Litres. 20 KG
Max weight carried 581 KG

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[Reallyretired]

The more I look the less of a scandal I see. When I apply our averages, even to a British 3.5t 6 berth motorhome. We come in under the payload.
View attachment 332453

MIRO 2940 Let's remove the driver, because we will add him back later 2865KG . This gives us a payload of 635 KG (3500-2865=635)

Let's add some realistic averages

Funster Van essentials. 180 KG
Dad is 14st 89kg +22kg allowance = 111 KG
Mum is 11st 70KG + +22kg allowance = 92 KG
Child 1 6st . 38KG +22 60KG
Child 2 4st 25 KG +22 46KG
Child 3 2st 12KG +22 36KG
Child 4 2st 12KG +22 36KG
Water 20 Litres. 20 KG
Max weight carried 581 KG

That only leaves 25kg spare, so if like many if not most you want to travel with full water you will be about 60kg overweight. Four kids will need 4 bikes plus probably parents too.

 

[Jim]

That only leaves 25kg spare, so if like many if not most you want to travel with full water you will be about 60kg overweight. Four kids will need 4 bikes plus probably parents too.

Absolutely and if they take six bikes etc, they are well over. Or the dad is 17'½ st not 14 But I think we've worked out a fair average payload and applying those payloads to various vans, it doesn't appear to be the scandal many of us thought it was.

 

[grumps147]

I don’t know about you Jim, but I thought your averages were very fair and sufficient to aid a lot of people, especially newer to motorhoming/campervanning and younger, who are much more likely not to have a group C licence.

I am finding myself doing this a lot this thread

 

[billym]

I didn't include awnings or TV in the average as mostly they are already installed and included and accounted for in MIRO.

Sat dishes are a yesterday item, so chose no to include those either. Of course, if you add one they will need to be accounted for

Sat dishes are a yesterday item!

Don't tell the French.

 

[WESTY66]

Sat dishes are a yesterday item!

Don't tell the French.

View attachment 332564

Or the Germans!!

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[bigtwin]

This thread is highlighting the apparently ever present difficulty that an, unfortunately, large proportion of the population have in dealing with averages.

Ian

 

[Lenny HB]

I don't think a Motorhome is fit for purpose if you can't run with a full tank of water.

Some Brit van even fit smaller fuel tanks because their payload is so low. AT for one have a 60Lt in some models.

 

[busbuddy]

just a few personal observations
you have used the same average 'funster van essentials' of 180kg (which includes food) for different amounts of people/berths...surely a family of 6 would be carrying a lot more 'essential' food and drink than a couple
the +22kg per person is about the same as people are forced to pack down to for flights but i doubt they would pack that light given a choice
the 20L of water is a bit optimistic, once you have pressurised the system (filled the boiler etc) and allowed for a cup of tea and toilet flushes en route

 

[Jim]

Sat dishes are a yesterday item!

Don't tell the French.

View attachment 332564

My chats with resellers and fitters tell me Sat dish sales are at least 60% down on where they were just a few years ago. Seems people are much more likely to stream TV here.

 

[gus-lopez]

Perhaps a few fines and points will help their education ?

Apart from the fact that there isn't an actual 'offence' for private drivers.

and the police explaining what they would do to you like impound it or whatever that could spoil your trip to the ferry for you annual holiday.

The only thing that can be done is a prohibition notice on a private individual until it is brought down to the vehicles mam. Ring a cab & load it in that complies. The fines & % over weights only apply to commercial drivers.

I would suggest that selling a motorhome with 4 belted seats that cannot be used to carry the occupants of those seats is mis-selling. The purchaser should reasonably be able to assume all seats can be occupied during travel.

Exactly. Here in spain each passenger to travel berth has to equate to 75kgs .

When I bought my new motorhome the salesman asked to see my licence, is there some rule they can't sell you over 3,500kg if you don't have a C1 licence?

They can sell you anything regardless of whether it is legal for you to drive it.

I am not singling out the Dutch merely using them as an example the problem is European wide not just UK

But in many eu states the fines are very high. I know of one spanish region where the Guardia consider that the unladen weight is a fixed amount & therefore cannot be part of the maximum authorised mass.So if you are overloaded the UW is taken away from the mam & the overload is a % of that.

The more I look the less of a scandal I see. When I apply our averages, even to a British 3.5t 6 berth motorhome. We come in under the payload.
View attachment 332453

MIRO 2940 Let's remove the driver, because we will add him back later 2865KG . This gives us a payload of 635 KG (3500-2865=635)

Let's add some realistic averages

Funster Van essentials. 180 KG
Dad is 14st 89kg +22kg allowance = 111 KG
Mum is 11st 70KG + +22kg allowance = 92 KG
Child 1 6st . 38KG +22 60KG
Child 2 4st 25 KG +22 46KG
Child 3 2st 12KG +22 36KG
Child 4 2st 12KG +22 36KG
Water 20 Litres. 20 KG
Max weight carried 581 KG

I don't think a Motorhome is fit for purpose if you can't run with a full tank of water.

Some Brit van even fit smaller fuel tanks because their payload is so low. AT for one have a 60Lt in some models.

It couldn't be sold in spain as & berth unless it had a minimum of 450kgs for the 6 passengers + the required EU directive amounts . Either that or the amount of passengers able to be carried has to be reduced.
This is why you see many advertised for sale here as " 4 to travel ,6 to sleep."As there is not enough pay load.

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[Parrot Face]

Picked up new Adria Matrix Supreme 670DC this April. Straight to Weighbridge. Weighed in at 3180 with nobody in vehicle, one full gas bottle, no water, 20 litres of fuel, one battery. Max weight is 3500, so I have 320 kg to work with. Say 160kg for us two adults. 11kg for dog, 180kg for all essentials. So I am overweight. If I upgrade to whatever I will have the licence issue when I am 70 in a couple of years time and also won't be able to travel on some european motorways without paying for the expensive gobox. As you,ve guessed my weights above give me little fuel. There is a scandal.

 

[Jim]

Picked up new Adria Matrix Supreme 670DC this April. Straight to Weighbridge. Weighed in at 3180 with nobody in vehicle, one full gas bottle, no water, 20 litres of fuel, one battery.

In the sales blurb what was the quoted MIRO do you know? I ask because I can't find it on their website . https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/motorhome-payload-scandal.204676/page-3#post-3495041

 

[Jim]

Picked up new Adria Matrix Supreme 670DC this April.

Two reviews of this van by major magazines. One doesn't mention payload at all. The other gives a payload of 436kg

 

[eddie]

My chats with resellers and fitters tell me Sat dish sales are at least 60% down on where they were just a few years ago. Seems people are much more likely to stream TV here.

A lot of members don’t realise the amount of time and effort Jim puts in ‘behind the scenes’ so as to speak, finding out what’s happening in the industry

We bought our new camper last year and debated if it was worth fitting a satellite system, and remember discussing satellite sales with him

We are looking at a new van tomorrow and it comes fully 5G and WiFi ready, with interconnection to the three TV’s no mention of satellite TV and I certainly won’t bother getting one fitted.

That said we are still selling Satellite TV systems to older folk, who don't Intend going abroad, who would rather push a button and watch telly than buy streaming devices and learn how to use them

 

[Stroppy Bird]

In the sales blurb what was the quoted MIRO do you know? I ask because I can't find it on their website . https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/motorhome-payload-scandal.204676/page-3#post-3495041

Here’s the brochure and price / options lists for 2019

https://www.adria-motorhomes.co.uk/sites/default/files/products/brochure/van_brochure_pricelist.pdf

Payloads given on second to last page.

But the DC variant is listed as TBA

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