Motorhome Camper tyres versus Van tyres

[Ernesto]

ambulancekidd
That’s a view ... but it’s only yours and I can’t see why you need to insult other posters by calling their views “bollocks”.
You clearly are the worlds (self appointed) expert in all things paramedic and tyres, but if you ever post on any other subject, I hope you get a better reception, than you give others....unless you’re always right about everything of course ?

 

[ambulancekidd]

ambulancekidd
That’s a view ... but it’s only yours and I can’t see why you need to insult other posters by calling their views “bollocks”.
You clearly are the worlds (self appointed) expert in all things paramedic and tyres, but if you ever post on any other subject, I hope you get a better reception, than you give others....unless you’re always right about everything of course ?

That's a bit personal sir, please remember rule one.

 

[Malcolm Bolt]

Don't understand this thread!

The alternative to not fitting appropriate tyres is at the very least, an increased chance of a tyre failure, when you are trying to get somewhere. The very worst is an increased chance or wiping out your van and the occupants. If my handbook says I need a minimum of 800 kg per wheel, my paranoia orders me to go for 1200kg or higher!!

A cheap van tyre is a bit less than 100 quid. A tyre designed for a motorhome can be north of 150 quid. Total difference for four tyres is therefore about £200. My family is worth more than that!!

My question isn't whether, on balance, a moho or van tyre is a better idea - to me, it's bloody obvious. I would like to know funsters opinion on which motorhome tyre, best balances value with overall safety on the road.

I'm 225 75 16" Ducato Maxi 3800mm, 3500kg.

If you are happy with that then stick with it. I am sure that in the UK all will be well. In other countries in Winter though they would not be either appropriate or legal unless you were parked on a site.
In my case no one makes a 'camper tyre' for my van so I will use other tyres that are appropriate and safe.

 

[pappajohn]

Cheers for your input Jock! I saw that my Insurance company Caravan guard have a blog on their website regarding tyres for motorhomes but still don't cover the legal side, so I sent a message on the blog asking them directly if my tyres were legal for Insurance purposes, I gave them all the weights and measurements and every detail of my van, their reply was ask my motorhome dealer or manufacturer! Surely they must know? Take a look on their website and you can see my message to them.

But did caravan guard get back with an answer?

 

[Malcolm Bolt]

If you are happy with that then stick with it. I am sure that in the UK all will be well. In other countries in Winter though they would not be either appropriate or legal unless you were parked on a site.
In my case no one makes a 'camper tyre' for my van so I will use other tyres that are appropriate and safe.

Oops sorry again.
Having seen the 'there may be more posts button' I now realise this point has been covered much more adequately above.

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[KeefieWeefie]

That's right you have to go up to 225, I did that on my last van.

So you put larger wheels on your van. Is it OK to do that? Interesting! Cheers!

 

[KeefieWeefie]

But did caravan guard get back with an answer?

As above they told me to ask my motorhome manufacturer or dealer. That was there reply!

 

[DL42846]

Hi everyone. Just took motorhome in for service and repair. The repair shop just called to tell me that my newly installed Michelin Agilis Cross Climate tyres are illegal because they are not dedicated Camper tyres! They are 215/70 R15 with 190 load rating. This equates to 1030 kg per tyre or 1.030 Metric Tons. My Bessacarr is max 3.5 MT. Are the repair peeps mistaken? Obviously I've done loads of googling on the subject but you always get mixed feelings. Any thoughts would be gratefully appreciated folks!

I recieved the same comment from a tyre company a few years back so I contacted Michelin head office in Clermont ferrand and this is a copy of the letter I received.

Michael Wills <michaelwills.fr@gmail.com>	Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 16:40
to contact

This is a copy of a reply I had from Michelin head office on the question of is it illegal to fit van tyre's in place of CP tyres on a motorhome.

On 19 April 2018 at 15:17, MICHELIN <contact@tc.michelin.eu> wrote:

 

[DL42846]

Hi everyone. Just took motorhome in for service and repair. The repair shop just called to tell me that my newly installed Michelin Agilis Cross Climate tyres are illegal because they are not dedicated Camper tyres! They are 215/70 R15 with 190 load rating. This equates to 1030 kg per tyre or 1.030 Metric Tons. My Bessacarr is max 3.5 MT. Are the repair peeps mistaken? Obviously I've done loads of googling on the subject but you always get mixed feelings. Any thoughts would be gratefully appreciated folks!

This is a reply I had from Michelin head office when I asked them the same question.


On 19 April 2018 at 15:17, MICHELIN <contact@tc.michelin.eu> wrote:

Dear Michael,

Just a quick clarification regarding your query short while ago regarding the CP marked tyres.

After looking into your case further regarding the CP marking regulations, we have the information that only in ITALY it is mandatory to have CP marked tyres on a Camping Van. In other parts of EU the regulation is based on load and weight indexes. However my OFFICIAL MICHELIN RECOMMENDATION needs to be the firstly mentioned MICHELIN AGILIS CAMPING, However as stated in the definition of CP tyres: "Caution: RF-/XL tyres and LT tyre are not C tyres, even if they resemble them with regard to size and load index. Therefore you should check the paperwork for your vehicle or ask the manufacturer which tyres you can use. In contrast, the abbreviation “CP” stands for “Camping”. This refers to C tyres which are optimised for the particular requirements of mobile homes, such as long standing times.”

The CP-marked camping tyres being stronger and more robust as a tyre, the most significant difference would be the ability of these tyres to maintain in the same position for longer periods (i.e. over the winter), where as a non-CP tyre would most likely experience some deformation do to being still for a long period.

So to conclude; Officially MICHELIN recommends your vehicle MICHELIN AGILIS CAMPING, but if you do verify the specific tyre requirements with your car manufacturer, or registration paperwork, and have your vehicle weighed and tyres to be inflated with according pressures, theoretically you might be able to safely mount the MICHELIN AGILIS CROSSCLIMATE, but you need to verify the specifics with your manufacturer and local authorities if necessary.

I wish to have satisfied your query, but please do not hesitate to contact us for any further information or advice.
For additional information please contact us by email: contact@tc.michelin.eu, on our website http://www.michelin.co.uk/, our contact form http://www.michelin.co.uk/contact or by phone to 0845 366 1590 or 0845 366 1535.

MICHELIN is happy to accompany you on every journey and would like to thank you for your confidence.

Kind regards,

Panu

MICHELIN Consumer Care
Passenger Car & Light Truck Tyres
Tel: 0845 366 1590; 0845 366 1535
E-mail: contact@tc.michelin.eu
Contact us: www.michelin.co.uk/contact
Web: www.michelin.co.uk

 

[DL42846]

Sorry people. I seem to be having computer problems here.

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[OldAgeTravellers]

providing you're not exceeding the load rating and have approx 10% to spare

Interesting, my Hymer had Conti Camper tyres fitted from new (225/75 R16 CP 116R)
The Hymer weight plate is 4500 gross, 2300 front, 2400rear.
116 rating is 1250 kg which only gives me 4% to spare on the rear.
Luckily there is an open Vigneron weighbridge in the next village so I weigh the motorhome before each outing for peace of mind.
Regardless of what ambulancekidd shouted above I personally prefer the handling of CP tyres over van tyres. I replaced the original van tyres on my previous van with CP tyres and the handling was vastly improved. The tyres were the same make and visually identical but the CP ones didn't bulge nearly as much, felt much more stable in use, were quieter and seemed to wear better.
Steve

 

[ambulancekidd]

shouted above

Shouting on an internet posting is using capital letters, not bold letters, furthermore, I have not aimed any personal comments at anyone.

As I said in my post about tyres "if you like a particular brand or type of tyre" that's a personal choice, just as my opinion is based on personal choice.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Shouting on an internet posting is using capital letters, not bold letters,

A whole post in bold letters looks and felt like shouting to me.
And phrases like: "members begin talking nonsense" and "These members seem to thrive on being ripped off" are a bit insulting and are I think against the essence of rule one.
Your whole post also seems to be moving towards the comment in your signature: "Telling us what to think has evolved into telling us what to say, so telling us what to do can't be far behind. " also all in bold I notice.
You are totally entitled to your opinion but it would be far nicer if it were put a little less forcefully without insulting other members.

 

[ambulancekidd]

And phrases like: "members begin talking nonsense" and "These members seem to thrive on being ripped off" are a bit insulting and are I think against the essence of rule one.
Your whole post also seems to be moving towards the comment in your signature: "Telling us what to think has evolved into telling us what to say, so telling us what to do can't be far behind. " also all in bold I notice.
You are totally entitled to your opinion but it would be far nicer if it were put a little less forcefully without insulting other members.

Point taken & I do apologise unreservedly for offending you or anyone else, that certainly wasn't my intention.

As I said in my posting I am on the brink of paranoid about tyres & I am very interested in the way your motorhome drives on CP tyres.

I do think your wrong on the bold writing but, it seems we view things in a different light, so can we agree to disagree there?

 

[Hettie's Crew]

So you put larger wheels on your van. Is it OK to do that? Interesting! Cheers!

On the advice of SV Tech we changed from 215/70 15 (109index) to 225/70 15 (112 index), they are very slightly bigger in circumference which results in our speedo being nearer accurate, plus we can run them at lower pressures resulting in a more comfortable ride.
We had Continental Campers and changed to Continental Vancontact 4Season following the advice of Continentals technical helpline regarding which tyres to fit.
I did consider the Michelin Agilis Camper but Michelin are useless in offering any decent advice and any internet search will bring up many stories of cracked side walls.
I’ve made a point of looking at tyres on motorhomes for signs of cracking and see more on Michelin Campers than anything else.
This idea that they are better for standing for long periods is due to the fact that say they must be inflated to 79psi regardless of the weight of your motorhome.
We had Michelin Campers on our previous motorhome, though that was four years ago, don’t know if they’ve been upgraded but I won’t be fitting them again.

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[KeefieWeefie]

On the advice of SV Tech we changed from 215/70 15 (109index) to 225/70 15 (112 index), they are very slightly bigger in circumference which results in our speedo being nearer accurate, plus we can run them at lower pressures resulting in a more comfortable ride.
We had Continental Campers and changed to Continental Vancontact 4Season following the advice of Continentals technical helpline regarding which tyres to fit.
I did consider the Michelin Agilis Camper but Michelin are useless in offering any decent advice and any internet search will bring up many stories of cracked side walls.
I’ve made a point of looking at tyres on motorhomes for signs of cracking and see more on Michelin Campers than anything else.
This idea that they are better for standing for long periods is due to the fact that say they must be inflated to 79psi regardless of the weight of your motorhome.
We had Michelin Campers on our previous motorhome, though that was four years ago, don’t know if they’ve been upgraded but I won’t be fitting them again.

So did you change the wheels as well as the tyres?

 

[KeefieWeefie]

I suspect that the tyre specifications have to be sufficient to exceed the plated axle weights rather than the actual weights from a weigh bridge.

As per the OP mine do by 60 kg.

 

[TheBig1]

So did you change the wheels as well as the tyres?

no need to change the wheels, 225 is the width and height of the tyre from the wheel, the 70 being the percentage of width to the height of the tyre. the 15 is the wheel rim which remains unchanged

 

[Hettie's Crew]

So did you change the wheels as well as the tyres?

No, no need to change the wheels, a variety of tyre sizes can be fitted to rims. In our case, on our Hymer alloys it was fine to go up a size, the rims are 6J I think and 225/70 is fine on that rim.
We checked with the tyre fitters and found a guide on line regarding what tyres can be fitted to what rim.

 

[KeefieWeefie]

Don't understand this thread!

The alternative to not fitting appropriate tyres is at the very least, an increased chance of a tyre failure, when you are trying to get somewhere. The very worst is an increased chance or wiping out your van and the occupants. If my handbook says I need a minimum of 800 kg per wheel, my paranoia orders me to go for 1200kg or higher!!

A cheap van tyre is a bit less than 100 quid. A tyre designed for a motorhome can be north of 150 quid. Total difference for four tyres is therefore about £200. My family is worth more than that!!

My question isn't whether, on balance, a moho or van tyre is a better idea - to me, it's bloody obvious. I would like to know funsters opinion on which motorhome tyre, best balances value with overall safety on the road.

I'm 225 75 16" Ducato Maxi 3800mm, 3500kg.

My wheels are 215/70 R15 and the maximum that will fit re load index is 109 both on van tyres and on CP tyres. My Insurance company tells me to refer to my motorhome dealer or manufacturer and both say that many motorhomes are fitted with van tyres. In Germany you need winter tyres in the winter and my cross climate tyres would be ok but not Michelin Agilis Camper tyres. So it's nothing to do with cost in my case. Maybe you understand a little better now?

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[KeefieWeefie]

no need to change the wheels, 225 is the width and height of the tyre from the wheel, the 70 being the percentage of width to the height of the tyre. the 15 is the wheel rim which remains unchanged

Thanks for that. I didn't realise that I could put larger tyres on the same rim!

 

[KeefieWeefie]

If it was me.... I'd get written confirmation from my insurers.. as they would ultimately have the final say if a claim followed a tyre issue...

I tried that and they replied refer to your motorhome dealer or manufacturer!

 

[TheBig1]

no need to change the wheels, 225 is the width and height of the tyre from the wheel, the 70 being the percentage of width to the height of the tyre. the 15 is the wheel rim which remains unchanged

just an update to say the difference in height between a 215/70/15 (150mm tall) and a 225/70/15 (157.5mm tall) is just 7.5mm. So really no great difference

 

[tacr2man]

Thanks for that. I didn't realise that I could put larger tyres on the same rim!

Its usually ok to go up 1 size (section) on same rim width , the other thing you need to be aware of is, if maintaining the aspect ratio there will be an increase in radius so you need to be sure that all clearances are maintained . some info here https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/tyre-wheel-calculators/wheel-rim-size-calculator

 

[KeefieWeefie]

Hi KeefieWeefie, As has already been said illegal is a bit strong, providing you're not exceeding the load rating and have approx 10% to spare I can't see any problem, the reason for specifying Camper tyres is that the tyres walls are stronger and have more pliers to counter the fact that motorhome are nearly always running at full load, unlike an ordinary van which is empty half of it's time, I think your service man is hoping for a lucrative sale of 4 new tyres, so I would be inclined to use a different service depot in future as he is only thinking of his profits and not your wellbeing.

No he doesn't sell tyres!

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[Fletton]

I tried that and they replied refer to your motorhome dealer or manufacturer!

And... Did. You?... ?

 

[KeefieWeefie]

Right for the OP, your tyres are legal.

Now why is it that everytime a tyre question pops up "some" of our forum members begin talking nonsense on a subject which they know little about?

These members seem to thrive on being ripped off & think that paying more always means better quality, to my mind it means the tyre stealer has seen you coming, you are at the mercy of the fear mongers, why? Is it cos your mate down the pub says so?

Camper or motorhome tyres are a ripoff full stop.
I just laugh my socks off every time I read this "motorhome always being fully loaded" guff. Its nonsense.
Let me give you one example, I drove fully laden front line ambulances for 30yrs, they're laden to the gunwales constantly, add a patient of two & you've got 5 tonnes all up, did we use camper tyres? Don't be so daft.

Lets cover sitting still for long periods, why would they? I wouldn't like to trust any & I do mean any tyres or brakes which had sat in the same position for 4 or 5 months, surely its far easier to either use the motorhome more often or occasionally take it for a drive, that's not only good for the tyres but for the health of the mechanical parts.

Now price, IMHO I'd rather buy a cheaper (still perfectly legal) set of tyres & replace them more often, so mine are done every three years max, I then sell the old tyres off to van drivers who are more than grateful for nearly new tyres at a third of the price, its a win, win situation for all.
Now if you have a chosen brand which you know & trust, stick to it, far be it for my or anyone else to tell you otherwise.
The same goes for being ripped off with camper tyres, if you like them, go for them but, please don't come on here spouting about how much you enjoy paying over the odds to feel safe.

As motorhome drivers, by & large our tyres get too old to do their jobs long before the tread wears out.

Insurance, absolutely nowhere in any insurance policy does it state that you must use camper or motorhome tyres.
Your only obliged to use the correct tyre for the weight/type of the vehicle you drive & they must be in legal roadworthy condition which means no cracks & adequate tread.
1.6mm being the minimum tread required, but I'm not fond of tyres having less than 3mm.

Ok I was a paramedic, so you might ask "what the hell does he know about tyres & the law?" & that's a valid question, well I was a tyre fitter in a previous life & still fit my own tyres, I'm also fastidious about tyres to the point of paranoia.

Great reply thanks. Actually I went on the Kwik Fit website and put my registration in to get the recommended tyre for my motorhome and the most expensive tyres were the ones that I chose. They didn't even suggest any camper tyres. Anyhow the camper tyre has the same load index as the van tyre!

 

[stevewagner]

We have Michelin Agilis M & S tyres on our Carthago and last week in Chamonix we had very heavy snow and they gripped very well when manoeuvring. Tyres are a personal choice and telling people not to come on here complaining is against the spirit of forums. Just because you’ve done something for 30 years doesn’t necessarily mean you’re right.
There should be mutual respect for all opinions even if you don’t agree.

 

[filopastry]

If that was the case you could only fit the same tyres as the manufacturers fit.
If a tyre is correctly speed and load rated it is a suitable tyre.
Reinforced wall camping tyres are advised but not legally required.

Evening. I'm not too sure either way but would not want to have to argue the case after an accident. I believe the main difference between goods vehicle tyres and those for motorhomes is that a motorhome is always near or above (never) its maximum weight usually with a large rear overhang (behave yourselves) which creates stresses only experienced by a goods vehicle on a much lesser periods of time. This has to be catered for in different tyre construction and plys, due the the lower demand for these tyres over that for the goods vehicles creates the cost discrepency. I know, some will see this only as a chance to charge extra for a "leisure persuit" I see it as not taking an avoidable risk that could have horrendous consequences. You pays your money ... you takes your chance ...but .... should it go pear shaped remember ... ignorance is no defence in law.

 

[filopastry]

Right for the OP, your tyres are legal.

Now why is it that everytime a tyre question pops up "some" of our forum members begin talking nonsense on a subject which they know little about?

As a "talker of nonsense" myself, I would ask that you enlighten us with your indepth knowledge of the subject. Please, not your opinions, they are easy to find, but facts for they are what one has to defend. As a Yorkshireman, I'm as tight as a ducks nether end but never skimp on safety, please help me save some of my hard earned cash with your wisdoms. I look forward to reading your knowledgable tome.

phil (talker of nonsense and jibberish)

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