Motorhome Camper tyres versus Van tyres

[Pausim]

I always thought camper tyres were just van tyres that have more sidewall protection to help with staying still for longer periods?

I think it is also because motorhomes are permanently loaded to something near their maximum axle weight so they not only stay still for longer but stay still fully loaded.

 

[tacr2man]

There is no basis in law for "camper" tyres , the law refers only to load and speed rating , and type of construction (eg cross ply/ radial) and their placement on which axles. Road Vehicles C&U regs 86 pIIC
You can fit higher load and speed rated tyres , than OE but not less. With dual fitment the second load rating on the sidewall should be used (This is also usually used in tag axle fitments as well) this is to allow for load transference requirements . Going to a larger section higher load rating tyre will also allow usage at lower inflation pressure if clearance is adequate , and the rim width is adequate . Changing tyre size is a modification that should be notified to your insurer , it will not normally result in any reaction by the insurer.
Any tyre that is sold has to be able to deal with any fitment that the tyre is rated to comply with , cost point of tyre does not exempt the manufacturer from any legislative requirements . There are "cheap" tyres that are made in "turn key" plants in 3rd world countries that have been set up by major first world tyre companies and have been requested and subsidised by that countries govt , to generate employment , and earn foreign exchange, and trade .

 

[wiljoy]

Thanks for the advice but that doesn't answer my question!

Sorry but I was just giving information regarding the Michelin brand.
There are plenty of tyres to purchase that do a much better job and last longer.
The specification you require is pretty standard on many motorhomes so not difficult to decide your brand.

 

[Allanm]

Don't understand this thread!

The alternative to not fitting appropriate tyres is at the very least, an increased chance of a tyre failure, when you are trying to get somewhere. The very worst is an increased chance or wiping out your van and the occupants. If my handbook says I need a minimum of 800 kg per wheel, my paranoia orders me to go for 1200kg or higher!!

A cheap van tyre is a bit less than 100 quid. A tyre designed for a motorhome can be north of 150 quid. Total difference for four tyres is therefore about £200. My family is worth more than that!!

My question isn't whether, on balance, a moho or van tyre is a better idea - to me, it's bloody obvious. I would like to know funsters opinion on which motorhome tyre, best balances value with overall safety on the road.

I'm 225 75 16" Ducato Maxi 3800mm, 3500kg.

It’s not a question of cheap tyres or inappropriate tyres but whether fitting non CP rated tyres to a motorhome is legal or not and I think the consensus is that it is not illegal. This can be born out by the fact that there are no specific motorhome ( CP rated) tyres that are specifically for 4 season use or winter use, ( many European countries laws require you to use Winter tyres in Winter) nor can you buy CP rated tyres for an RV.
As long as you use tyres with the correct load rating, they will be legal in the U.K. whatever the OP’s repair shop said.

 

[KeefieWeefie]

Sorry but I was just giving information regarding the Michelin brand.
There are plenty of tyres to purchase that do a much better job and last longer.
The specification you require is pretty standard on many motorhomes so not difficult to decide your brand.

Thanks for the advice but in my post you will see that I have already chosen and purchased my tyres. My question is are they legal!

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[KeefieWeefie]

Yes they are legal.

Thank you!

 

[KeefieWeefie]

Legal.

What was the load index of the original tyres on that same axle, before you replaced them? As pointed out above, replacement tyres need not be Camper (CP) tyres, however, they need to be the same load rating for that axle, or higher.

In conclusion, I agree, those in the repair shop are talking out there ar$es.

Many MHs come out of the factory with C (commercial) rather than CP (camper) tyres on them.

Cheers,

Jock.

Excellent, thanks folks!

 

[Allanm]

Thanks for the advice but in my post you will see that I have already chosen and purchased my tyres. My question is are they legal!

Yes
As long as the load rating is correct

 

[KeefieWeefie]

It’s not a question of cheap tyres or inappropriate tyres but whether fitting non CP rated tyres to a motorhome is legal or not and I think the consensus is that it is not illegal. This can be born out by the fact that there are no specific motorhome ( CP rated) tyres that are specifically for 4 season use or winter use, ( many European countries laws require you to use Winter tyres in Winter) nor can you buy CP rated tyres for an RV.
As long as you use tyres with the correct load rating, they will be legal in the U.K. whatever the OP’s repair shop said.

That's a great answer thanks!

 

[DDJC]

Tyre size, shape, speed, colour and rim, etc, isn't a mystery to me.
Load ratings are something I know nothing about.

Anyway, I found the following info on load ratings. Hope its helpful.

Load Index	Load in kg
80	450
81	462
82	475
83	487
84	500
85	515
86	530
87	545
88	560
89	580
90	600
91	615
92	630
93	650
94	670
95	690
96	710
97	730
98	750
99	775
100	800
101	825
102	850
103	875
104	900
105	925
106	950
107	975
108	1000
109	1030
110	1060
111	1090
112	1120
113	1150
114	1180
115	1215
116	1250
117	1285
118	1320
119	1360
120	1400
121	1450
122	1500
123	1550
124	1600
125	1650
126	1700

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[JockandRita]

A cheap van tyre is a bit less than 100 quid. A tyre designed for a motorhome can be north of 150 quid. Total difference for four tyres is therefore about £200. My family is worth more than that!!

Not quite. A quality winter or all season van tyre with the same ply rating, speed rating, and load index rating as "so called " camper tyres, can be a bit less than £100 + fitting. I know, as I've got six new Falken ones on our latest MH, and a receipt for them. I have not bought a CP tyre in 16 x years of MH'ing, and none were fitted to our Hymer when it left the factory. I don't think the Flair had either.

As pointed out above, CP tyres are unavailable in certain sizes and profiles, and in certain specifications, which are required in some Western European countries over winter months.

The OP asked if his newly fitted tyres were legal, or not. He has had the correct answer provided, and is satisfied with that.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[funflair]

Not quite. A quality winter or all season van tyre with the same ply rating, speed rating, and load index rating as "so called " camper tyres, can be a bit less than £100 + fitting. I know, as I've got six new Falken ones on our latest MH, and a receipt for them. I have not bought a CP tyre in 16 x years of MH'ing, and none were fitted to our Hymer when it left the factory. I don't think the Flair had either.

As pointed out above, CP tyres are unavailable in certain sizes and profiles, and in certain specifications, which are required in some Western European countries over winter months.

The OP asked if his newly fitted tyres were legal, or not. He has had the correct answer provided, and is satisfied with that.

Cheers,

Jock.

Don’t think CP tyres were even heard of back then Jock, Flair came out the factory with Michelin Agilis 81 116 rated and now most N+B, MORELO and Concorde come out on Continental four seasons 3PMSF 121rated but not camping.
If you check the sidewalls on Michelin Camper vs Continental 121 rated the Conti’s are twice the thickness.

Martin

 

[Apache]

I've had two sets of Michelin tyres shred. Both were less than 3 years old and 11,000 miles. Changed to Hankook last year and they are brilliant.
One of my customer's looks after a fleet of 38 vans and will not use Michelin tyres now.
They've had endless problems with the walls cracking as mine did.
Choice is up to the buyer but named brands don't necessarily mean quality these days.

That’s both interesting and worrying at the same time. We have Michelin Agilis on our Apache which is MGVW of 4250 kg. It left the factory with them on and is now just over 4 years old with almost 15000 miles on. Never had a problem with them so far but I sure as hell will be looking at the load ratings and checking sidewalls when I get out of bed ! I’m sleeping in the van as I type. I’m not typing in my sleep ?

 

[DDJC]

Not quite. A quality winter or all season van tyre with the same ply rating, speed rating, and load index rating as "so called " camper tyres, can be a bit less than £100 + fitting. I know, as I've got six new Falken ones on our latest MH, and a receipt for them. I have not bought a CP tyre in 16 x years of MH'ing, and none were fitted to our Hymer when it left the factory. I don't think the Flair had either.

As pointed out above, CP tyres are unavailable in certain sizes and profiles, and in certain specifications, which are required in some Western European countries over winter months.

The OP asked if his newly fitted tyres were legal, or not. He has had the correct answer provided, and is satisfied with that.

Cheers,

Jock.

Cheers Jock, I get that completely.
My point was simple. The legality is a far lesser priority for me than the safety - mainly because it is surely sensible to assume that the safer the tyre match to the moho, the more likely it is to be the legal choice as well.

Also Missus DDJC, who is even more risk averse than I am, would be rather... er... critical of me if we rode forth on less than top-of-the-range tyres. The cab wouldn't need the aircon on....

 

[Dognewf]

Personally i don't scrimp on tyres either for the car or the van. I will shop around for the best price but only for the highest rated tyres of the correct size and appropriate for the job. Safety is more important than legality to my mind.

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[KeefieWeefie]

Not quite. A quality winter or all season van tyre with the same ply rating, speed rating, and load index rating as "so called " camper tyres, can be a bit less than £100 + fitting. I know, as I've got six new Falken ones on our latest MH, and a receipt for them. I have not bought a CP tyre in 16 x years of MH'ing, and none were fitted to our Hymer when it left the factory. I don't think the Flair had either.

As pointed out above, CP tyres are unavailable in certain sizes and profiles, and in certain specifications, which are required in some Western European countries over winter months.

The OP asked if his newly fitted tyres were legal, or not. He has had the correct answer provided, and is satisfied with that.

Cheers,

Jock.

Cheers for your input Jock! I saw that my Insurance company Caravan guard have a blog on their website regarding tyres for motorhomes but still don't cover the legal side, so I sent a message on the blog asking them directly if my tyres were legal for Insurance purposes, I gave them all the weights and measurements and every detail of my van, their reply was ask my motorhome dealer or manufacturer! Surely they must know? Take a look on their website and you can see my message to them.

 

[Wagoneer]

They are 215/70 R15 with 190 load rating.

I guess you mean 109 load index ?

 

[Stroppy Bird]

If it was me.... I'd get written confirmation from my insurers.. as they would ultimately have the final say if a claim followed a tyre issue...

This is what I did a few years ago when I needed to change the tyres on my van. They came back and said so long as they were road legal and and suitable load rating etc for the van then I could put whatever tyre I liked on and it didn't have to be a 'camper' specific one.

 

[KeefieWeefie]

I guess you mean 109 load index ?

Sorry it's a typo, you are of course correct!

 

[KeefieWeefie]

This is what I did a few years ago when I needed to change the tyres on my van. They came back and said so long as they were road legal and and suitable load rating etc for the van then I could put whatever tyre I liked on and it didn't have to be a 'camper' specific one.

I did actually emailed Caravan Guard who are my insurers and asked them if my tyres were legal and they replied please refer to your motorhome dealer or manufacturer! Daft that they couldn't tell me!

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[Hettie's Crew]

critical of me if we rode forth on less than top-of-the-range tyres.

Exactly, that’s why we chose not to use Michellin Camper tyres and went for Continental 4Seasons which were more expensive than the Campers.

 

[KeefieWeefie]

If it was me.... I'd get written confirmation from my insurers.. as they would ultimately have the final say if a claim followed a tyre issue...

Cheers, that's what I did. My Insurance company is Caravan Guard. I asked them if my tyres were legal. Gave them all the specifications and they replied please refer your question to your motorhome dealer or manufacturer! Bloody daft!

 

[KeefieWeefie]

They are talking BS, providing the load rating is correct.
However, it is always advisable if not using CP tyres to have at least a 10% load margin. I assume you have a 2000 kg load rating on the rear axle so it would have been better to fit tyres with a 111 load index.

My tyre size is 215/70 R15. The highest load index for 15inch tyres is 109 as far as I can find. Even for Campervan tyres.

 

[KeefieWeefie]

You will have a weight plate possibly in the door footwell, it will have gross weight which you say is 3500kg and maximum allowed axle weights which must not be exceeded as well as the gross.

I wouldn't worry about them not being camping but I would want the original load rating or better.

Martin

EDIT I should really have said it could well be your insurance who want the original load rating or better.

Thanks Martin! After googling myself mad as far as I can tell or find, the max load index for my rims which are 15 inch is 109 even for the camper tyres!

 

[Lenny HB]

My tyre size is 215/70 R15. The highest load index for 15inch tyres is 109 as far as I can find. Even for Campervan tyres.

That's right you have to go up to 225, I did that on my last van.

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[DL42846]

I recieved the same comment from a tyre company a few years back so I contacted Michelin head office in Clermont ferrand and this is a copy of the letter I received.

Michael Wills <michaelwills.fr@gmail.com>	Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 16:40
to contact

Dear Sir's just a quick note to say thank you for the information. As always I know I can count on Michelin.

On 19 April 2018 at 15:17, MICHELIN <contact@tc.michelin.eu> wrote:

Dear Michael,

Just a quick clarification regarding your query short while ago regarding the CP marked tyres.

After looking into your case further regarding the CP marking regulations, we have the information that only in ITALY it is mandatory to have CP marked tyres on a Camping Van. In other parts of EU the regulation is based on load and weight indexes. However my OFFICIAL MICHELIN RECOMMENDATION needs to be the firstly mentioned MICHELIN AGILIS CAMPING, However as stated in the definition of CP tyres: "Caution: RF-/XL tyres and LT tyre are not C tyres, even if they resemble them with regard to size and load index. Therefore you should check the paperwork for your vehicle or ask the manufacturer which tyres you can use. In contrast, the abbreviation “CP” stands for “Camping”. This refers to C tyres which are optimised for the particular requirements of mobile homes, such as long standing times.”

The CP-marked camping tyres being stronger and more robust as a tyre, the most significant difference would be the ability of these tyres to maintain in the same position for longer periods (i.e. over the winter), where as a non-CP tyre would most likely experience some deformation do to being still for a long period.

So to conclude; Officially MICHELIN recommends your vehicle MICHELIN AGILIS CAMPING, but if you do verify the specific tyre requirements with your car manufacturer, or registration paperwork, and have your vehicle weighed and tyres to be inflated with according pressures, theoretically you might be able to safely mount the MICHELIN AGILIS CROSSCLIMATE, but you need to verify the specifics with your manufacturer and local authorities if necessary.

I wish to have satisfied your query, but please do not hesitate to contact us for any further information or advice.
For additional information please contact us by email: contact@tc.michelin.eu, on our website http://www.michelin.co.uk/, our contact form http://www.michelin.co.uk/contact or by phone to 0845 366 1590 or 0845 366 1535.

MICHELIN is happy to accompany you on every journey and would like to thank you for your confidence.

Kind regards,

Panu

MICHELIN Consumer Care
Passenger Car & Light Truck Tyres
Tel: 0845 366 1590; 0845 366 1535
E-mail: contact@tc.michelin.eu
Contact us: www.michelin.co.uk/contact
Web: www.michelin.co.uk

 

[Ernesto]

From memory (so don't rely on it 100% ?)... Camper Tyres are touted by the brands and they claim they have stronger sidewalls and a slightly improved compound to help vans that stand still for long periods, plus improved tread pattern for wet grass grip.

Whether thats worth the extra premium is up to the individual - I interned to replace our OEM Camper Tyre Michelins the van came with, with a winter tyre next, so we're free to use the van for skiing trips.

If Camper Tyres take off in the market, I'm guessing its only a matter of time before they make a winter version available. I can't see the brands persuading us all to own two sets of tyres - far too costly.

 

[gwyntaxi]

Hi everyone. Just took motorhome in for service and repair. The repair shop just called to tell me that my newly installed Michelin Agilis Cross Climate tyres are illegal because they are not dedicated Camper tyres! They are 215/70 R15 with 190 load rating. This equates to 1030 kg per tyre or 1.030 Metric Tons. My Bessacarr is max 3.5 MT. Are the repair peeps mistaken? Obviously I've done loads of googling on the subject but you always get mixed feelings. Any thoughts would be gratefully appreciated folks!

Hi everyone. Just took motorhome in for service and repair. The repair shop just called to tell me that my newly installed Michelin Agilis Cross Climate tyres are illegal because they are not dedicated Camper tyres! They are 215/70 R15 with 190 load rating. This equates to 1030 kg per tyre or 1.030 Metric Tons. My Bessacarr is max 3.5 MT. Are the repair peeps mistaken? Obviously I've done loads of googling on the subject but you always get mixed feelings. Any thoughts would be gratefully appreciated folks!

Hi KeefieWeefie, As has already been said illegal is a bit strong, providing you're not exceeding the load rating and have approx 10% to spare I can't see any problem, the reason for specifying Camper tyres is that the tyres walls are stronger and have more pliers to counter the fact that motorhome are nearly always running at full load, unlike an ordinary van which is empty half of it's time, I think your service man is hoping for a lucrative sale of 4 new tyres, so I would be inclined to use a different service depot in future as he is only thinking of his profits and not your wellbeing.

 

[ambulancekidd]

Right for the OP, your tyres are legal.

Now why is it that everytime a tyre question pops up "some" of our forum members begin talking nonsense on a subject which they know little about?

These members seem to thrive on being ripped off & think that paying more always means better quality, to my mind it means the tyre stealer has seen you coming, you are at the mercy of the fear mongers, why? Is it cos your mate down the pub says so?

Camper or motorhome tyres are a ripoff full stop.
I just laugh my socks off every time I read this "motorhome always being fully loaded" guff. Its nonsense.
Let me give you one example, I drove fully laden front line ambulances for 30yrs, they're laden to the gunwales constantly, add a patient of two & you've got 5 tonnes all up, did we use camper tyres? Don't be so daft.

Lets cover sitting still for long periods, why would they? I wouldn't like to trust any & I do mean any tyres or brakes which had sat in the same position for 4 or 5 months, surely its far easier to either use the motorhome more often or occasionally take it for a drive, that's not only good for the tyres but for the health of the mechanical parts.

Now price, IMHO I'd rather buy a cheaper (still perfectly legal) set of tyres & replace them more often, so mine are done every three years max, I then sell the old tyres off to van drivers who are more than grateful for nearly new tyres at a third of the price, its a win, win situation for all.
Now if you have a chosen brand which you know & trust, stick to it, far be it for my or anyone else to tell you otherwise.
The same goes for being ripped off with camper tyres, if you like them, go for them but, please don't come on here spouting about how much you enjoy paying over the odds to feel safe.

As motorhome drivers, by & large our tyres get too old to do their jobs long before the tread wears out.

Insurance, absolutely nowhere in any insurance policy does it state that you must use camper or motorhome tyres.
Your only obliged to use the correct tyre for the weight/type of the vehicle you drive & they must be in legal roadworthy condition which means no cracks & adequate tread.
1.6mm being the minimum tread required, but I'm not fond of tyres having less than 3mm.

Ok I was a paramedic, so you might ask "what the hell does he know about tyres & the law?" & that's a valid question, well I was a tyre fitter in a previous life & still fit my own tyres, I'm also fastidious about tyres to the point of paranoia.

 

[pappajohn]

If they do not conform with the original tyres specified by the manufacturer .. beware. Subject discussed to the n'th degree on other threads.

phil

If that was the case you could only fit the same tyres as the manufacturers fit.
If a tyre is correctly speed and load rated it is a suitable tyre.
Reinforced wall camping tyres are advised but not legally required.

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