Mass emigration from England

[ShiftZZ]

No Buttons, I am suggesting YOU are incorrect in posting that the Welsh NHS is shite, I am not really interested in what you say Shifty says (after all, when before did you ever take note of what he says), I live in Wales.. you two don't.

Gooney...

I no longer see Button's postings,so I cant commet on what he has posted. but, I do have experience of the NHS in Wales and it can be shoddy. I have had to take them on a number of times and they have failed, in my experience to meet what I would expect to be of a high standard. That's my opinion based on fact/or evidenced by me.

Other funsters may have different views based on their experience to which they are entitled, those who don't have 1st hand experience are simply trolls.

I could if you wish quote chapter and verse, but, that would be unfair as some of it was so appalling to be sickening. On the other hand, if you have had a different experience, then so be it.

Live in Wales, well I do spend more time here than I did and yes I do have a house and family here and I do pay my council tax. So I think I am entitled to my opinion.

 

[ShiftZZ]

I only speak as I personally find Boss, my treatment was first class and very speedy

You were indeed fortunate. I have evidence of the opposite, such as my father who had suffered an epileptic attack being discharged at 11:00PM, without informing the family and he didn't know what to do and they did not know where he was.
Or, there are a number of other incidents I could quote, but if you had good treatment, I am really happy for you.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

They may dither and backtrack but Salmond and Farage would deliver only on the opposite of what they promise. They would ruin the UK faster even than putting Labour back in charge would

That Graeme is your opinion and your welcome to it ,however if you take Norway as an example the UK could exist outside the EU but still benefit from the European free trade agreement!
Therefore not in my opinion we could thrive ,far from ruining the uk as you state.

Vlad

 

[maison]

I only speak as I personally find Boss, my treatment was first class and very speedy

Glad to hear it.

No disrespect was meant to you. I know some individuals have received good treatment. I was commenting on the general situation. My wife, a state Registered Nurse, shares our horror of the situation at Wale's biggest hospital.

Have a good Christmas.

 

[buttons]

No Buttons, I am suggesting YOU are incorrect in posting that the Welsh NHS is shite, I am not really interested in what you say Shifty says (after all, when before did you ever take note of what he says), I live in Wales.. you two don't.

You were indeed fortunate. I have evidence of the opposite, such as my father who had suffered an epileptic attack being discharged at 11:00PM, without informing the family and he didn't know what to do and they did not know where he was.
Or, there are a number of other incidents I could quote, but if you had good treatment, I am really happy for you.

Gooney...I no longer see Button's postings,so I cant commet on what he has posted. but, I do have experience of the NHS in Wales and it can be shoddy. I have had to take them on a number of times and they have failed, in my experience to meet what I would expect to be of a high standard. That's my opinion based on fact/or evidenced by me.
Other funsters may have different views based on their experience to which they are entitled, those who don't have 1st hand experience are simply trolls. Shifty…….If being a troll is quoting fact and stories written by a trusted member of this forum like your good self, as well as reading and quoting articles from the forums favorite news paper then I must hold my hand up. I am finding this to be a tad hypercritical from someone who makes quotes from the DM in 90% of his threads.

I could if you wish quote chapter and verse, but, that would be unfair as some of it was so appalling to be sickening. On the other hand, if you have had a different experience, then so be it.
Live in Wales, well I do spend more time here than I did and yes I do have a house and family here and I do pay my council tax. So I think I am entitled to my opinion.

There you go Gooney evidence from the man himself. I guess as he says, you were just lucky.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GJH]

That Graeme is your opinion and your welcome to it ,however if you take Norway as an example the UK could exist outside the EU but still benefit from the European free trade agreement!
Therefore not in my opinion we could thrive ,far from ruining the uk as you state.

Vlad

I agree Vlad, we are all entitled to our opinions

The Norwegian situation is somewhat different, though, in that it has evolved in harmony alongside the development of the EU. Would (indeed could) that be the same if UKIP just upped and pulled us out of the EU whilst demanding that the rest of Europe submitted to what the UK wanted? As I've said on other threads, the arguments against UKIP taking the UK out of the EU are very similar to those against the SNP taking Scotland out of the UK - the assumptions regarding the alternatives are based on very flimsy evidence.

 

[sdc77]

Sorry.. If UKip just upped and pulled us out of Europe what demands would we have against Europe? Please trade with us.? . Thats going to happen.. And it will be on similar terms to the US and other large trading partners.. What other demands would we have?
We would be our own bosses then.. Fishing, farming, shopping defence research and development will be down to us with one tier of regulation removed.
Not to mention the money we would save by not paying into the EU..
Don't miss understand me here.. I'm not convinced that UKIP have the skill set to run the country well.. But.. To me getting out of the wasteful EU is the priority.
The Scotland issue is irrelevant and miniscule in comparison

 

[Jim]

Over the last eleven years we have used the Welsh NHS extensively. We have had some cause to complain but that was about one particular doctor. On the whole our experiences of the Welsh NHS has been very positive indeed. Much better care than we experienced in West Sussex. Personally I feel the Welsh NHS is used as a political football by the Government. I suppose all of the trusts in the rest of the UK have no problems at all

 

[Gooney]

There you go Gooney evidence from the man himself. I guess as he says, you were just lucky.

You and I both obviously take heed to a lot of what Shiftzz (the man himself) says, that's why I must agree with his statement "those that don't have 1st hand experience are simply Trolls". Now when was it you said you were in a Welsh NHS hospital?
All things are not always chocolate and roses, but neither are they in the Whole of the NATIONAL health service.

 

[buttons]

You and I both obviously take heed to a lot of what Shiftzz (the man himself) says, that's why I must agree with his statement "those that don't have 1st hand experience are simply Trolls". Now when was it you said you were in a Welsh NHS hospital?
All things are not always chocolate and roses, but neither are they in the Whole of the NATIONAL health service.

Now if we could only post with regard to personal experiences Gooney I think this would be a boring place to be. How many posts do we have with regard to benefit scroungers, are you suggesting that all those posts are from Trolls.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DBK]

Are we going to call a truce on this thread and have a virtual game of football instead?

 

[Portland]

Agree! but would like to see Russell Brand as deputy and my preference for PM is Broken Link Removed umunna. anyway whats this tripe doing of a motorhome forum

I put it on but I'm amazed where its gone ! Don't FUNSTERS have fun with these posts. By the way Russel Brand for PM is no worse than what else is on offer Merry Christmas to all FUNSTERS have a great time and happy travelling in the new year

 

[Glandwr]

And the same to you Portland, a very merry one. Amusing to see the juvenile yah boo political posturing that such posts stir up. But slightly dispairing to see UK politics polarising like the US.

Dick

 

[gus-lopez]

That Graeme is your opinion and your welcome to it ,however if you take Norway as an example the UK could exist outside the EU but still benefit from the European free trade agreement!
Therefore not in my opinion we could thrive ,far from ruining the uk as you state.

Vlad

Sorry.. If UKip just upped and pulled us out of Europe what demands would we have against Europe? Please trade with us.? . Thats going to happen.. And it will be on similar terms to the US and other large trading partners.. What other demands would we have?
We would be our own bosses then.. Fishing, farming, shopping defence research and development will be down to us with one tier of regulation removed.
Not to mention the money we would save by not paying into the EU..
Don't miss understand me here.. I'm not convinced that UKIP have the skill set to run the country well.. But.. To me getting out of the wasteful EU is the priority.
The Scotland issue is irrelevant and miniscule in comparison

The EU isn't going to negotiate BEFORE the vote about the UK being in the EEA. They'd be in a position of strength. After the vote & if it is for leaving then the EU have the upper hand. They can & could instruct all other states not to trade with the UK ( what I would do ) to make an example to anyone else thinking of leaving.
Yes you'd be saving vast sums by not contributing to the EU but under the above circumstances you'd also probably lose far more in lack of exports/trade, all the financial companies leaving , etc.

If they do let the UK into the EEA then the situation in the UK re; the Eu workers will be exactly the same as they will have full entitlement , exactly the same as they had when the UK was in the EU. BUT you will also probably have the returning expats , potless, in their millions . +the Looky-looky men will still be at Calais.
So all this could of/would of /will cost billions & all you'd have is the same situation but lack of trade & more , extremely angry returnee's.

 

[hilldweller]

The EU isn't going to negotiate.............

I take that's a no from you then.

We, the whole of Europe, has to do something to halt the bunch of communists slowly but surely turning Europe into a totalitarian state, that is, if it's not too late.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[sdc77]

The EU isn't going to negotiate BEFORE the vote about the UK being in the EEA. They'd be in a position of strength. After the vote & if it is for leaving then the EU have the upper hand. They can & could instruct all other states not to trade with the UK ( what I would do ) to make an example to anyone else thinking of leaving...

I've got to say that's pretty awful scaremongering... Almost pro European in fact.
Why on earth would the UK not be treated like other countries close by.
If your scenario is true then we're doing the right thing leaving (if we do).. And plenty of others will follow..
Its a little laughable.. Your scenario

Why would you make an example btw? (what you would do)
Are you against freedom to choose?

 

[gus-lopez]

The intention from the start was always a " United States of Europe" . Anyone who thought anything else,like it was a continuation of the " common market " etc; was labouring under a misapprehension or fooled. Why would you need all these treaties , rules , etc; to trade together ?
I am merely stating what the likely scenario will be from the people that actually control those that are the public face of the EU.
In that scenario I would be looking to make sure that no one else left if that was what was required.
What would I do ? I thought that you'd get the gist from the bit in the first post " They can & could instruct all other states not to trade with the UK " ; but I'll expand it a bit to make it obvious.

No ferries or tunnel; No flights from UK over any EU territory.
The pressure would be put on the financial companies to relocate. Not that they need any as it would be the same scenario for them as Scotland voting to leave the Union. There's plenty of places in the EU with the skill & available work force to relocate the UK part of Airbus . Etc; Etc.
Remember , they've been working towards this since the end of WW2. They aren't going to give it up lightly.

You asked
" Why on earth would the UK not be treated like other countries close by."
Why would they be ?
The other countries are in the EU.
The Uk would have voted to be out of the EU . Why would you treat the UK the same way now that you have to divi up 12 billion + between all the others ?
Those that are nearby & not in the EU are in the EEA . Yes & they weren't in the EU then left to join the EEA.
Do you seriously think, in the event of an out vote, that the EU will give a toss about what the UK wants ? They aren't going tolet the UK leave , & so lose the UK contributions, join the EEA under near same conditions whilst paying some 300million euros like the Swiss reckon it costs them.
For a start everyone else would have to pay another 400million + just to cover the UK's lost contribution.
Another thing is that the UK politicians that want out/ join the EEA , seeem to think that they can vote to leave , then renegotiate to join the EEA at same date in the future. Sort of like what would have happened if Scotland had voted to leave the union & a date had been set in 2016. All very polite. Why on earth would anyone think that it would be the same with the EU ?
It might be a case of " you've voted to leave " " Be gone by Monday ".

Am I pro-european ? No I couldn't give a %&$%, What I object to is how many " once & for all " votes is there going to be ? We had one back in the 70's. We voted to stay in.
If no one realised what the idea behind it all was then it's no wonder it's all in the state it's in now.

" Are you against freedom to choose? "
No but how many times are we going to do it ?
You can't keep wanting out every time things appear to be against the UK. The rules are the same for everyone it is just that the UK doesn't enforce the ones that would allow them not to have to pay out to all the illegals or anyone that cannot comply if required to register.
People go on about all the illegal immigrants in the UK but who in the EU takes in the most illegal immigrants ? It aint the UK . It's the Germans with 200k + each & every year.
& yes there nationals are starting to complain.
I don't know what the answer is but think it would be better to negotiate whilst within the EU & with others like the Germans singing the same tune rather than vote to leave .

Why does everyone think that if the UK comes out of the EU we are going to just go back trading with the rest of the world ? Or the commonwealth ? Have they all forgotten how we **** on New Zealand , The Aussies , Canada etc
when we elected to join the EEc ? I wouldn't & don't think they would.
It is not even as though the UK is liked any where.
I can see the EU breaking up but more likely due to another war than the Uk opting out.

 

[sdc77]

My turn.. Its Christmas so I'll keep it brief..
We didn't vote to join.. So wanting out is fine
There are plenty of countries not in the European who trade with it..
Our single biggest export destination is America.
Then Germany Netherlands France Ireland China India... Even without the EU I'm sure we will manage.. We export stuff that people WANT.. do you think that will just stop..
btw Germany takes more immigrants.... Not illegal immigrants
The 70s vote was for the common market not EU membership with all its caveats..

 

[gus-lopez]

You vote for the political parties that voted to join/stay in the Eu.
Do I think that the exports will stop ? A lot will yes, as the people doing the exporting will have to move out to avoid the import duties in to the EU.
Can you see the car manufacturers , those that are left, continuing to produce vehicles , the vast amount for export,that now cannot be sold into the EU without import taxes ? They'll just move production. there's plenty more businesses that would be placed in similar positions.
I would think that the financial services would be in Frankfurt quicker than you can blink. This is the problem with something that does provide large amounts of jobs , huge income to the economy , but is able to be transferred anywhere at the drop of a hat.

You want out you vote for UKIP. They'll get you out but even they think that they'll be given a large amount of time to do it.
What I would have serious doubts about them doing though is actually running UK plc. Mind you all the rest have over the last few years been more concerned about infighting & point scoring than making the country a better place to live.

I look around & think what the was/is it all about? What is the point? Why did/do I bother ?
40 years from when I started work & the whole lot is a **** tip that is far worse than it was 40 years ago. The only progress has been backwards. Any politician that thinks anything else is deluded. Anyone that thinks it is deluded!
I always thought that the idea was to improve, modernise, make a better future for the kids & grandkids , etc.
Not to actually go backwards, to be worse off, to take longer to travel anywhere, to have an NHS that is beyond redemption, etc; etc. Just means that it has all been a complete waste of time & when the next war starts , which it will, who is going to think that it is worth fighting for , except as a matter of principle ?

 

[Larrynwin]

Trade is reciprocal, the UK is a massive market for BMW, Mercedes, Fiat, Renault , Dutch flowers etc and that would continue along with our exports to them.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[gus-lopez]

Trade is reciprocal, the UK is a massive market for BMW, Mercedes, Fiat, Renault , Dutch flowers etc and that would continue along with our exports to them.

Why would it ? You cannot just " assume " that everything will continue as before just that you won't be paying billions in to the EU ? It's not going to happen & the EU will make sure that it doesn't.
It isn't going to be reciprocal . If the UK face import duties they aren't going to allow all of the EU firms to keep selling in to the UK without imposing similar tariffs. That's also assuming the EU allows the said member states to even trade with the UK.
As I posted in the previous reply The car co's ; BMW, Nissan , etc; would have to balance continuing to produce in the UK & having to pay import taxes in the EU against selling to the UK market, & most of the production in UK goes for export.

 

[GJH]

It is all very well saying, as the Tories are, that constructive negotiations should be opened with the rest of the EU to make changes, with the proviso that it may mean saying at the end "Thanks but this club no longer meets our needs" and then moving to an alternative put in place in the meantime.

It is entirely another matter to say, as UKIP are, "£^%$%$ off EU, we're taking our ball home" without having a solid fallback position in place in case they say "OK, find your own pitch to play on and other people to play with, starting now".

UKIP can no more assume that the EU would fall in line than the SNP could that an independent Scotland could retain currency union with the UK or could join the EU immediately.

 

[Wyaye wires]

Maybe its time to close the doors on that great daycare centre that is westminster and run the country from the pub.

I'm sure that Nigel would be willing to help...

 

[GJH]

I'm sure that Nigel would be willing to help...

Would he get an invite though?
Nigel Farage is the party leader Londoners want to spend New Year with the least

 

[Wyaye wires]

Yes, but who would want to spend time with Londoners?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[sdc77]

You vote for the political parties that voted to join/stay in the Eu.
Do I think that the exports will stop ? A lot will yes, as the people doing the exporting will have to move out to avoid the import duties in to the EU.
Can you see the car manufacturers , those that are left, continuing to produce vehicles , the vast amount for export,that now cannot be sold into the EU without import taxes ? They'll just move production. there's plenty more businesses that would be placed in similar positions.
I would think that the financial services would be in Frankfurt quicker than you can blink. This is the problem with something that does provide large amounts of jobs , huge income to the economy , but is able to be transferred anywhere at the drop of a hat.

You want out you vote for UKIP. They'll get you out but even they think that they'll be given a large amount of time to do it.
What I would have serious doubts about them doing though is actually running UK plc. Mind you all the rest have over the last few years been more concerned about infighting & point scoring than making the country a better place to live.

I look around & think what the was/is it all about? What is the point? Why did/do I bother ?
40 years from when I started work & the whole lot is a **** tip that is far worse than it was 40 years ago. The only progress has been backwards. Any politician that thinks anything else is deluded. Anyone that thinks it is deluded!
I always thought that the idea was to improve, modernise, make a better future for the kids & grandkids , etc.
Not to actually go backwards, to be worse off, to take longer to travel anywhere, to have an NHS that is beyond redemption, etc; etc. Just means that it has all been a complete waste of time & when the next war starts , which it will, who is going to think that it is worth fighting for , except as a matter of principle ?

Happy Christmas..

You seem to keep saying what I did or want or whatever.. I say you're scaremongering and all of your conclusions are supposition or guesswork. Of course we would pay import duties.. Just as we do to countries outside the EU.
The financial sector on the whole are not looking to move to Frankfurt.
Face it.. Europe's finished in the form it is. The bloodsucking leech like Brussels deathstar (lol) is on borrowed time.

Btw.. I think you'll find the next wars already started... And who's at the front again... Whilst helping fight Ebola...And helping the French deal with their illegal immigrants.. The world doesn't need an EU.. It needs Great Britain that's allowed to be great.

 

[Portland]

Merry Christmas everyone Could anyone explain HOW? this thread has gone from Alex Salmon Through the Welsh national health ,via Nigel Fararge, Norway, The E.U constitution. illegal immigrants to where it is now?? Amazing ,where will it go next. HAPPY NEW YEAR.

 

[GJH]

Merry Christmas everyone Could anyone explain HOW? this thread has gone from Alex Salmon Through the Welsh national health ,via Nigel Fararge, Norway, The E.U constitution. illegal immigrants to where it is now?? Amazing ,where will it go next. HAPPY NEW YEAR.

Possibly because they are all at the bottom of the barrel?

 

[trophychap]

Does anyone think the EU could continue without the GB contributions coming in? I for one certainly don't think it could! Not in its present form anyway, I also think that is why the likes of Germany etc, know it and are trying very hard to maintain the status quo.

 

[gus-lopez]

Happy Christmas..

I say you're scaremongering and all of your conclusions are supposition or guesswork.

All are just that until events unfold. All you can do is use the available info; etc: to work out what should/is likely to occur.
People laughed when I said Yugoslavia would descend into war as soon as Tito died . ............................In the 1960's.
A simple question ? Why is my view " scaremongering " & the view that it will all be sweetness & light ,assumed to be not ?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}