Make rear sidelights permanently on?

[Pausim]

I looked and can't see any guidance from the government on DRL causing glare in fog! Do you have a link that does. They do emphasize that if rear lights don't come on with the DRL they should be turned on by turning on dipped headlights.

Perhaps I read about dazzle in fog elsewhere. Turning on dipped headlights should dim or turn the DRLs off.

 

[Barriesimpson]

I don’t think normal rear lights cause any dazzle, the point is that the DRLs do and if people want rear lights on they are forced to turn the DRLs off.

Dipped beams have a cut off to stop glare shining into the eyes of approaching traffic and fog lights are at a low level and have a low downward spread that does not cause dazzle. However DRLs are deliberately aimed up to catch the attention of other road users in daylight and do cause dazzle when used in the wrong conditions, just like rear fog guard lights do.

Nope, that's not the way they work.

 

[fred_jb]

For a short while some manufacturers constructed vehicles that had rear lights coming on with DRLs but this is no longer allowed. This is because drivers should not use DRLs in poor light, fog etc. when they will cause dazzle. The official position is given here.

Daytime running lights

www.gov.uk

Interesting - thanks for the link. I think the following is the relevant paragraph:

"DRL activate automatically when the engine is started and remain on unless the headlamps are switched on. They may however remain off in some low speed and stationary situations. In general all other lights should remain off when the DRL are on but for a limited period some vehicles may be available which automatically activate the rear position lamps at the same time as the DRL."

This seems a bit vague about rear position lights coming on at the same time, saying that "in general" all other lights should be off, but then says for a limited period some vehicles will activate the rear position lights at the same time as the DRLs. This does not really make clear whether it is not allowed to do this of if it is just not a requirement.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

Scandinavian legislation says their DRL’s have the rear lights on as well as the fronts, all VAG vehicles have a setting in the dealer menu’s for DRL’s where the dealer can choose the Scandinavian setting - good luck getting a dealer to change it though.

That’s what I did using VCDS or OBDEleven with my Shuttle. I similarly changed to settings on my wife’s MINI Clubman so the rears are on.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

I checked my 23 plate Skoda Kamiq this morning and it doesn’t have rear DRLs despite having every other bell and whistle available on the top of the range model. Apparently it is available as an option on some Skodas.

Janine, they can be programmed with VCDS or OBDEleven coding tools.

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[fred_jb]

Nope, that's not the way they work.

While it is true that you are not forced to turn DRLs off in order to illuminate rear lights, and in any case there is normally no way to do so, DRLs instead either automatically go off completely or are dimmed when the headlights are switched on.

If the rear lights are always on then turning the headlights on will do nothing at the rear. If they are not always on then turning the headlights on will also switch on the rear lights.

I do have some sympathy with the view that having the rear lights on at the same time as the DRLs could make people more complacent about switching headlights on as it gets darker, which risks dazzling other road users with the DRLs.

 

[fred_jb]

Seems motorcycles are some way ahead. No light switch on my bike, simple sytem; first stage electrics brings up dash display, system check and sidelights, second stage starts engine and switches on headlights. Only switch is low/high beam selection. Successive European research initiatives seem to come to the same/similar conclusions that AOH has clear benefits for road safety.

This is not always the case. I have owned BMW bikes with a DRL and also a light level sensor enabling automatic switching between DRL and headlight. I think the rear light was always on too.

 

[fred_jb]

Can we have a link to that kit for turning lights on automatically please? And before any comments, I have an IAM certificate so I should be better at remembering to turn my lights on and off

As an aside, a Peugeot 205 I used to own turned the lights on whenever the rain sensing wipers activated above a certain rate - a feature I think should be more common.

I will provide a couple of links below and the first is the one I am currently using:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08KTGL5JX/?tag=mhf04-21

However I must point out that I will not use either system to power the lights directly via a relay. Instead, after much effort I got to the connector for the headlight stalk and identified that as my van has only one position, on or off, with no AUTO position there was a simple system that just connected one wire to earth to tell the system to turn the lights on. I then used the relay in the module to make the same connection in parallel with the stalk switch to turn on the lights when its light sensor triggered. This particular module has an adjuster for sensitivity to set the light level at which it triggers and importantly a second adjuster to set a delay time between switching on and off to prevent rapid flicking on and off if the light level is fluctuating near to the trigger level. The problem I have had with this is that my preferred sensitivity adjustment is close to one end of the adjustment range and tiny changes make a big difference to the triggering level which makes it difficult to adjust precisely, and the adjusters are tiny and hard to turn. It also does not seem that stable, so I think I have it right, then next time I use it it comes on a bit too soon or too late. I have a switch on it so I can disable it if it comes on too soon, but is not ideal. I could possibly change the adjustment potentiometers to improve this, but rather than persevere with trying to get the adjustment perfect I have decided to try a different system.

The following is a link to my original post on this which includes some pictures:

Retrofit Automatic Headlights

I’ve just picked up a 2020 Ducato/Boxer-based van. Despite almost every bell and whistle, it doesn’t have auto headlights… I’m so used to them. Is it possible to retrofit? My van has the LED DRLs

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

The second system which I have just ordered is not a general purpose module but is designed specifically to directly power vehicle headlights by providing power to them via controlling relays. I will instead use the output to control a relay to switch my stalk control on and off, which avoids having to set up alternative power connections to the actual headlights. This kit is widely available on Amazon and eBay for about £35 but I have ordered it from AliExpress for about £17 inc postage:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007430643703.html

 

[dunnah01]

Just teach drivers to be as visible as possible and how to over-ride what the car wants to do if appropriate.

 

[Pausim]

Interesting - thanks for the link. I think the following is the relevant paragraph:

"DRL activate automatically when the engine is started and remain on unless the headlamps are switched on. They may however remain off in some low speed and stationary situations. In general all other lights should remain off when the DRL are on but for a limited period some vehicles may be available which automatically activate the rear position lamps at the same time as the DRL."

This seems a bit vague about rear position lights coming on at the same time, saying that "in general" all other lights should be off, but then says for a limited period some vehicles will activate the rear position lights at the same time as the DRLs. This does not really make clear whether it is not allowed to do this of if it is just not a requirement.

I read that bit as some slipping through with the rear lights activated before the regulations caught up and stopped it. Regulations are rarely retrospective.

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[fred_jb]

I read that bit as some slipping through with the rear lights activated before the regulations caught up and stopped it. Regulations are rarely retrospective.

Yes, you are probably right, though the wording may be significant. It says all other lights "should" remain off. It does not say "must" remain off, so there seems to be some wriggle room there!

 

[Pausim]

Yes, you are probably right, though the wording may be significant. It says all other lights "should" remain off. It does not say "must" remain off, so there seems to be some wriggle room there!

I doubt that anyone is ever going to be challenged on it. I have found EU and UN regulations about DRLs but can’t be bothered with trawling through them, there are pages of stuff about angles, positions etc. I got the following from a much easier to read guide issued by Hella where it says “must switch off automatically.”

 

[The Wino]

Interesting - thanks for the link. I think the following is the relevant paragraph:

"DRL activate automatically when the engine is started and remain on unless the headlamps are switched on. They may however remain off in some low speed and stationary situations. In general all other lights should remain off when the DRL are on but for a limited period some vehicles may be available which automatically activate the rear position lamps at the same time as the DRL."

This seems a bit vague about rear position lights coming on at the same time, saying that "in general" all other lights should be off, but then says for a limited period some vehicles will activate the rear position lights at the same time as the DRLs. This does not really make clear whether it is not allowed to do this of if it is just not a requirement.

I think the link was in 2010 and just as DRL became compulsory. I tried to find government advice about switching off DRL in fog and couldn't find any. On the rear lights I'm struggling to see any disadvantages in them being permanently on with the DRL it wouldn't influence people forgetting to switch to dipped beam at night unless they're in the habit of getting out and walking around to look!

 

[fred_jb]

I think the link was in 2010 and just as DRL became compulsory. I tried to find government advice about switching off DRL in fog and couldn't find any. On the rear lights I'm struggling to see any disadvantages in them being permanently on with the DRL it wouldn't influence people forgetting to switch to dipped beam at night unless they're in the habit of getting out and walking around to look!

The reason I realised my headlights were not on was that someone coming up behind flashed me, which they wouldn't have done if the rear lights had been on.

However if they had been on with the DRLs rather than the headlights I would have been more visible and so safer even without the headlights on.

Not sure where that leaves us!

 

[dunnah01]

Did about 300m today from Cheshire to Scotland in grotty weather and the vast majority of modern cars didn't have headlights on and no tail lights but relied on front DRLs only. The old clankers nearly all had headlight and tail lights on. Not sure auto thing is a step forwards tbh

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[Daffy64]

Janine, they can be programmed with VCDS or OBDEleven coding tools.

Or a Carista, you’ll get a free months access to everything so blow your brains out with all the options - it’s by far the cheapest way and works brilliantly.