Make rear sidelights permanently on?

[Pausim]

Why not?

Because they don’t make any difference to the visibility of the back of the vehicle in good light. It might also encourage people to drive on DRLs when they should have turned their headlights on. If in doubt turn the headlights on.

 

[Landy Andy]

I don't believe that I'm old enough to remember before they were available and all drivers didn't behave more intelligently in fact the accident stats say exactly the opposite!
Not accepting things that make it less likely that drivers will make mistakes seems a very odd thing to promote.

Drove yesterday in thick fog, 3 days ago heavy snow. Over half the vehicles had no lights on apart from some DLRs. Why be because they have auto lights, that don’t operate during these conditions, and the driver no longer thinks about operating lights, or many other things. More tech = less thinking.

 

[The Wino]

Drove yesterday in thick fog, 3 days ago heavy snow. Over half the vehicles had no lights on apart from some DLRs. Why be because they have auto lights, that don’t operate during these conditions, and the driver no longer thinks about operating lights, or many other things. More tech = less thinking.

I remember the days when people flashed Volvo drivers because they thought they had forgotten to turn their lights off now we generally have realised they we're just designed to better regulations. Do you think less than half wouldn't have lights on if automatic lights weren't available because my memory pre DRL and auto lights is that very few remembered to put their lights on in fog and snow. The fact so many forget to turn rear fog lights off ( that they must have switched on manually) supports that. I think modern driving aids are fantastic they aren't perfect but better than relying on people. It's the same as driverless cars once they are significantly safer than an average driver they are going to be great for safety a lot say but in very unusual circumstances they won't be as good but it's the average that matters. Look at aviation lot's of safety software and features overall much better safety. It's like CNC manufacturing Vs a craftsman if you want something really unusual the craftsman will be better if you want reliably made consistent quality CNC every time. I suspect similar conversations have been going on for several generations since the industrial revolution we now have life expectancy and a quality of life previous generations could only dream of but still some hark back to the rosy tinted good old days. A new year approaching great lets look ahead!

 

[poppycamper]

Because they don’t make any difference to the visibility of the back of the vehicle in good light. It might also encourage people to drive on DRLs when they should have turned their headlights on. If in doubt turn the headlights on.

Sorry.. totally disagree with you on both counts here..

 

[Pausim]

Sorry.. totally disagree with you on both counts here..

That’s ok, we are all entitled to have different opinions.

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[iandsm]

You should not use DRLs in bad light because they could cause dazzle. If it is bad enough to need rear lights then you should switch to headlights which have a dipped beam. The D in DRL stands for daylight and you don’t need rear lights in normal daylight.

Exactly, and isn't the reason for DRL's so others road user can see you coming. Why use constant rear lights, other road users will have little interest in seeing you going and and the only time you need rear lights on is in the dark or in poor visibility when you switch you headlights on the rear lights come on on at the same time anyway.

What would be of interest to me is whether the instrument lights cluster on the Fiat/Peugeot vans could be changed to be illuminated permanently, without switching on the headlights, as they are sometime difficult to see even in good daylight. I think its the design of the surround.

 

[Northernraider]

Drl's were the worst thing ever invented on cars. A better approach would have been to copy volvo and saab approach and make sidelights permanently on when engine is running. On all my fiat motorhomes you could leave the switch set to sidelights and they were then on whenever engine was running and off when it wasn't.

Unfortunately iveco decided to make it so that the headlight dipped beam setting does this but the sidelights don't, If you turn off ignition the sidelights remain on flattening the battery .

I don't want dipped beam on all the time when driving but I would like all sidelights on . As it is I've simply to remember to switch them on and off manually.

 

[Janine]

I checked my 23 plate Skoda Kamiq this morning and it doesn’t have rear DRLs despite having every other bell and whistle available on the top of the range model. Apparently it is available as an option on some Skodas.

 

[fred_jb]

Drl's were the worst thing ever invented on cars. A better approach would have been to copy volvo and saab approach and make sidelights permanently on when engine is running. On all my fiat motorhomes you could leave the switch set to sidelights and they were then on whenever engine was running and off when it wasn't.

Unfortunately iveco decided to make it so that the headlight dipped beam setting does this but the sidelights don't, If you turn off ignition the sidelights remain on flattening the battery .

I don't want dipped beam on all the time when driving but I would like all sidelights on . As it is I've simply to remember to switch them on and off manually.

At some point a position on the ignition switch was introduced which could be used to leave the sidelights on when parked. I think this was to meet the requirement to have lights on when parked in some situations, such as when parked against the flow of traffic? I have accidentally done this a few times when setting the steering lock on motorcycles.

There were also systems which just left either left or right side sidelights on depending on which way you left the indicator switch pointing when parked. I think the idea was to only leave the lights away from the kerb on to save battery power. A bit of a nuisance if you didn't need them but accidentally left the indicator stalk off centre when parking.

 

[Neil S]

I checked my 23 plate Skoda Kamiq this morning and it doesn’t have rear DRLs despite having every other bell and whistle available on the top of the range model. Apparently it is available as an option on some Skodas.

They might not be switched on , my partners previous Skoda kamiq was a 21 plate and it certainly had LED DRL,s as per photo

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[Janine]

They might not be switched on , my partners previous Skoda kamiq was a 21 plate and it certainly had LED DRL,s as per photo View attachment 994162

Yes, it has front ones but not rear ones

 

[Neil S]

Yes, it has front ones but not rear ones

My mistake i misread thinking you were talking about the fronts
Apologies

 

[Northernraider]

Yes, it has front ones but not rear ones

I've never seen rear drl lights

 

[fred_jb]

I've never seen rear drl lights

Unlike the front ones, I believe they are generally just normal rear lights that are always on.

 

[Barriesimpson]

I've never seen rear drl lights

My Jag has them.

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[Northernraider]

My Jag has them.

Are the front lights and number plate lights on too?

If so then surely that's just sidelights.

Same as volvo and saab.

Drl lights were always just front lights independent of the sidelight/headlights

 

[Barriesimpson]

Are the front lights and number plate lights on too?

If so then surely that's just sidelights.

Same as volvo and saab.

Drl lights were always just front lights independent of the sidelight/headlights

No, just the 'J' lights on the front, and the side lights (no specific DRLs) on the rear.

 

[Northernraider]

No, just the 'J' lights on the front, and the side lights (no specific DRLs) on the rear.

How very strange

 

[Barriesimpson]

How very strange

Strange? Logical I would say.

 

[Northernraider]

Strange? Logical I would say.

Not really , why not just make all the sidelights come on with ignition. As it is drl lights are the main reason you see so many cars driving with no lights on.
So adding rear sidelights but no number plate light etc is just daft.

So folk will still drive with no lights and when they run someone over the number plate won't be visible to catch them

It's a very crazy way of avoiding just making all sidelights come on when engine is running.

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[Barriesimpson]

Not really , why not just make all the sidelights come on with ignition. As it is drl lights are the main reason you see so many cars driving with no lights on.
So adding rear sidelights but no number plate light etc is just daft.

So folk will still drive with no lights and when they run someone over the number plate won't be visible to catch them

It's a very crazy way of avoiding just making all sidelights come on when engine is running.

Well the Jag also has the auto lights thing, so when it goes dark, they are on. I appreciate that in fog and/or snow they may not come on. But how often do you think we see fog and/or snow here?

 

[Northernraider]

Well the Jag also has the auto lights thing, so when it goes dark, they are on. I appreciate that in fog and/or snow they may not come on. But how often do you think we see fog and/or snow here?

I know.

But even the auto lights thing whilst it's an improvement I don't understand why they don't just make every car have sidelights on when engine is running, it's not going to do any harm is it.

 

[Pausim]

For a short while some manufacturers constructed vehicles that had rear lights coming on with DRLs but this is no longer allowed. This is because drivers should not use DRLs in poor light, fog etc. when they will cause dazzle. The official position is given here.

Daytime running lights

www.gov.uk

 

[Cush]

My gripes are drivers that don’t turn lights on in fog (perhaps too reliant on auto lights) and those that leave their rear fog lights on when no fog, especially on a clear night.

 

[GrahamPye]

I have just ordered a kit which unlike the current device is specifically designed for automotive use, so that may well fix the problems.

Can we have a link to that kit for turning lights on automatically please? And before any comments, I have an IAM certificate so I should be better at remembering to turn my lights on and off

As an aside, a Peugeot 205 I used to own turned the lights on whenever the rain sensing wipers activated above a certain rate - a feature I think should be more common.

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[The Wino]

For a short while some manufacturers constructed vehicles that had rear lights coming on with DRLs but this is no longer allowed. This is because drivers should not use DRLs in poor light, fog etc. when they will cause dazzle. The official position is given here.

Daytime running lights

www.gov.uk

I think your link says drl shouldn't be used in low light due to glare but I can't see any references to in fog. I don't see how rear lights could be bright enough to cause glare in any situations they are after all designed to be used at night ( I don't mean rear fog lights)
As front fog lights are pretty similar to DRL in terms of brightness I don't see how DRL would cause a lot more glare than dipped beam and fog lights in fog in daylight.

 

[Landy Andy]

For a short while some manufacturers constructed vehicles that had rear lights coming on with DRLs but this is no longer allowed. This is because drivers should not use DRLs in poor light, fog etc. when they will cause dazzle. The official position is given here.

Daytime running lights

www.gov.uk

They don’t. They use no lights at all.

Great stuff this modern technology on rules

 

[Pausim]

I think your link says drl shouldn't be used in low light due to glare but I can't see any references to in fog. I don't see how rear lights could be bright enough to cause glare in any situations they are after all designed to be used at night ( I don't mean rear fog lights)
As front fog lights are pretty similar to DRL in terms of brightness I don't see how DRL would cause a lot more glare than dipped beam and fog lights in fog in daylight.

I don’t think normal rear lights cause any dazzle, the point is that the DRLs do and if people want rear lights on they are forced to turn the DRLs off.

Dipped beams have a cut off to stop glare shining into the eyes of approaching traffic and fog lights are at a low level and have a low downward spread that does not cause dazzle. However DRLs are deliberately aimed up to catch the attention of other road users in daylight and do cause dazzle when used in the wrong conditions, just like rear fog guard lights do.

 

[The Wino]

I don’t think normal rear lights cause any dazzle, the point is that the DRLs do and if people want rear lights on they are forced to turn the DRLs off.

Dipped beams have a cut off to stop glare shining into the eyes of approaching traffic and fog lights are at a low level and have a low downward spread that does not cause dazzle. However DRLs are deliberately aimed up to catch the attention of other road users in daylight and do cause dazzle when used in the wrong conditions, just like rear fog guard lights do.

I looked and can't see any guidance from the government on DRL causing glare in fog! Do you have a link that does. They do emphasize that if rear lights don't come on with the DRL they should be turned on by turning on dipped headlights.

 

[Nigel P]

Seems motorcycles are some way ahead. No light switch on my bike, simple sytem; first stage electrics brings up dash display, system check and sidelights, second stage starts engine and switches on headlights. Only switch is low/high beam selection. Successive European research initiatives seem to come to the same/similar conclusions that AOH has clear benefits for road safety.

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