Low leisure battery charge rant about British manufacturers

[Pechris]

My MH is on a Ford chassis and when I asked the dealer about the leisure battery not being fully charged when driving, he said that they cannot connect to the engine battery/Ford wireing as it would void the Ford warranty!



the Ford warrenty!

 

[Lenny HB]

My MH is on a Ford chassis and when I asked the dealer about the leisure battery not being fully charged when driving, he said that they cannot connect to the engine battery/Ford wireing as it would void the Ford warranty!

That's what's known as BS.

What did you do about it?

 

[eccy]

Hi the Battery Master is a long term engine battery charging device.

It will not charge the leisure battery, ever, and it operates when the voltage difference is circa 0.8 VDC

It in no way replaces any split charger or Battery 2 Battery charger

Sorry to butt in but my problem is the engine battery dosnt keep charge. Off grid it goes flat within two days I guess solar panels don’t charge that one. Any ideas please it’s a coachman travel master new in October Merc based

 

[Lenny HB]

Sorry to butt in but my problem is the engine battery dosnt keep charge. Off grid it goes flat within two days I guess solar panels don’t charge that one. Any ideas please it’s a coachman travel master new in October Merc based

You must have something draining the battery it should last at least 2 to 3 weeks.
Some head units don't switch off completely they go into standby mode some like the Pioneer units can flatten a starter battery overnight.

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Reading this thread with more than a modicum of scepticism.
Seems to me that there is a bit of interpretation of warranty values and the right of retro fitting equipment by each individual.
In my view,If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If you want a better one that's fitted as standard and within a warranty period, spec the better stuff to order at time of purchase and enjoy.
Once out of warranty, mess with it as you want,and fit what you like, provided you know what you are doing.
Don't see the point in a warranty otherwise if anyone can just fiddle and replace stuff from the start the manufacturer has provided to be used in accordance with their issued equipment, the original spec of the van is altered, and thus voiding any warranty claim for anything.
Only my opinion though, and thankfully I will never be in such a position to buy a new and expensive vehicle with a manufacturers warranty.
There seems to be a lot of wriggle room from manufacturers on warranties from what I have read.

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[gus-lopez]

If you want a better one that's fitted as standard and within a warranty period, spec the better stuff to order at time of purchase.

That is only if they sell/offer it. No one ever made a car with the requirements that I had ,so always fitted them myself afterwards. If you want to view motorhome "warranties" most state from the outset that "daily use voids the warranty" ?? what is that all about? last coach built I had was used daily for 5 years.

 

[Outdoors Dad]

I would bite the bullet and fit a dc-dc charger and lithium. I've done it and all the worry and hassle of my battery going flat etc are gone! More than enough energy now. But I get the OP's rant. If I was going to buy a new or nearly new van I would get the van I wanted but the basic spec and add my own solar, lithium, compressor fridge etc. If you install it yourself you know it's done correctly....these motorhome dealers seem poor form what I've read!

 

[Lenny HB]

In my view,If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If you want a better one that's fitted as standard and within a warranty period, spec the better stuff to order at time of purchase and enjoy.

Most converters don't offer what the customer needs an most dealers aren't capable of fitting lot of equipment correctly.
So the only option is to fit it yourself or get an independant company to do it.

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Most converters don't offer what the customer needs an most dealers aren't capable of fitting lot of equipment correctly.
So the only option is to fit it yourself or get an independant company to do it.

Probably why a lot of people are self-building PVC's then.
Not just cost but built to a spec they ACTUALLY want.

 

[gus-lopez]

If you want a better one that's fitted as standard and within a warranty period, spec the better stuff to order at time of purchase and enjoy.

That is only if they sell/offer it.

Then ,if you do have it fitted by the 'professionals' you can end up with bodgery ,butchery & things that still do not work as they should.

My mate had a second leisure battery fitted to existing cables pre installed from new in his MH. he had already complained that the solar did not appear to be keeping leisure batteries charged. He took it back & they could not 'find anything'* He took it to another & explained that solar did not appear to be keeping the leisure batteries charged. They said the connections all needed changing, which they did.
He came down through France complaining that nearly every day he was having to start engine first thing as hab side would lose charge within hours & shut down.

When he arrived here a few minutes with the multimeter showed that the second leisure battery was fully charged & being supplied by the solar but was not connected to A) the first leisure battery nor B) the hab side of the van
Battery number one was not connected to the solar panel and was only being charged when the engine was running & was also the only one connected to the hab side .
It took me less than 15 minutes to work the above out & another half an hour to reconnect it all so both batteries supplied hab side & were charged with solar,engine & charger when required. Also the last bloke who did the 'new connections' had made a stunning job of fitting a cable from the first battery live terminal in a loop that reconnected to the same terminal??
Upon leaving he was still unsure that "100% full" on his hab panel was telling him the truth. After 2 weeks back from here & to this day they remain at 100%& to this day he never fails to mention it all works well.
450 he paid for the orig 2nd battery + the 'repairs' afterwards.

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[pat100]

Probably why a lot of people are self-building PVC's then.
Not just cost but built to a spec they ACTUALLY want.

Manufacturers build them to look good in the showroom/exhibition. LOVELY curtains! Sales trumps everything. (Maybe a little cynical?)

 

[pat100]

My MH is on a Ford chassis and when I asked the dealer about the leisure battery not being fully charged when driving, he said that they cannot connect to the engine battery/Ford wireing as it would void the Ford warranty!



the Ford warrenty!

Yes, they often give this as the reason for not allowing the engine battery to be connected to the solar controller to keep it topped up.

 

[DucatoMan2]

One thing I'd say is that reviewers should spend a bit more time on these' technical' issues. It would help non specialist buyers a lot. I've only seen it covered where an 'off-grid' option is available.
Before your first van it can even be difficult to work out how long you likely to be off-grid. I now know I'll only spend 2 or max 3 at a time, so got a portable power station to cover that.

 

[Outdoors Dad]

One thing I'd say is that reviewers should spend a bit more time on these' technical' issues. It would help non specialist buyers a lot. I've only seen it covered where an 'off-grid' option is available.
Before your first van it can even be difficult to work out how long you likely to be off-grid. I now know I'll only spend 2 or max 3 at a time, so got a portable power station to cover that.

I get your thinking but you should realistically be able to stay a few days without EHU considering you charge it via alternator and most probably solar......as is what's the point of having such charging options. Really a portable power station is just a small battery that has charging and discharging options. Your leisure battery is normally larger than a portable power station.

 

[Tony50]

Very few Motorhomes have Lithium it an extra on £300k+ Morelo's so why would you expect it on a much lower cost van.

But a B2B should be fitted if it has a smart alternator.

I have a super duper Lithium battery fitted, it has a 100 watt solar panel so I thought I'll add another solar panel, until I found that the Sargent Electrics are only capable of 150 watts, I phoned Sargent and said 150 watts is useless, he said you can always add what he you want by disconnecting that part of Sargent system and go direct, I said how pathetic of Them not recommending uprated electrics to AutoSleeper or did they ? Or do the
wallies at AutoSleeper never use their own product ? I bloody well give up!!

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[Lenny HB]

I have a super duper Lithium battery fitted, it has a 100 watt solar panel so I thought I'll add another solar panel, until I found that the Sargent Electrics are only capable of 150 watts, I phoned Sargent and said 150 watts is useless, he said you can always add what he you want by disconnecting that part of Sargent system and go direct, I said how pathetic of Them not recommending uprated electrics to AutoSleeper or did they ? Or do the
wallies at AutoSleeper never use their own product ? I bloody well give up!!

Sargent fit a cheap PWM controller in the back of the distribution unit always better to fit a decent MPPT controller and ignore the Sargent one.

 

[Super Spark]

It's a well-known fact that a leisure battery will not be charged satisfactorily directly from a smart alternator. So why is it connected to the starter battery at all when the engine is running? If it was disconnected as it should be, it would stay at a constant level and not discharge. That I think is the absolute minimum standard to be expected.

The fridge should be connected to the alternator/starter battery while the engine is running, and the smart alternator will power it correctly just the same as it powers the lights, fan, wipers etc. Of course it will be at a reduced voltage of about 12.5V, but that is fine for running a fridge and all the other vehicle electrics, it's just no good for charging a battery.

If the leisure battery is connected to the alternator, it will be dragged down to the 12.5V level, as shown in the graphs.

Kontiki 669 2014 lead acid batteries changed September from original (yuasa)to same make and spec. Fiat ducato battery changed February this year van on hook up after any time away never yet had a problem I'll stick to original specs 57000 miles on same batteries must say something is right

 

[CAB96]

Kontiki 669 2014 lead acid batteries changed September from original (yuasa)to same make and spec. Fiat ducato battery changed February this year van on hook up after any time away never yet had a problem I'll stick to original specs 57000 miles on same batteries must say something is right

How long do you last off grid?

Do you have solar as well?

 

[Super Spark]

How long do you last off grid?

Do you have solar as well?

Up to a week no problem 2x110w solar and on hook up when we get home

 

[Miggs]

Kontiki 669 2014 lead acid batteries changed September from original (yuasa)to same make and spec.

I think your success stems from sticking with lead acid and not fitting AGM. My van has a pair of AGM batteries fitted and from what I have read, the standard charging system will never reach the required voltage to properly fully charge them (about 14.7v), lead acid is happy with 14.4v, AGM is not! This constant under charging guarantees a very shortened life.

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[autorouter]

Kontiki 669 2014 lead acid batteries changed September from original (yuasa)to same make and spec. Fiat ducato battery changed February this year van on hook up after any time away never yet had a problem I'll stick to original specs 57000 miles on same batteries must say something is right

An interesting viewpoint, and I'm sure it's true, but not relevant in any way to the point I was making. Unless of course your 2014 vehicle has a smart alternator.

 

[the1andonly]

I don't think so when I bought my first Motorhome I knew exactly what I was buying and I fully investigated it.

Unfortunately we dont all spend 2 years investigating. Having done that i tried spec a new 2019 model with the bells i wanted to find they no longer made that model and my only real option was a 2017 model with whistles but no bells. But i will agree walking into a dealer or show is plain stu, likely to get you problems.

 

[Lenny HB]

Unfortunately we dont all spend 2 years investigating.

Neither do I, two days at Caravan Salon is enough.

 

[eddie]

Unfortunately we dont all spend 2 years investigating. Having done that i tried spec a new 2019 model with the bells i wanted to find they no longer made that model and my only real option was a 2017 model with whistles but no bells. But i will agree walking into a dealer or show is plain stu, likely to get you problems.

It doesn't have to take that long!

Lyn and I were freezing changing into clothes after a Sunday morning dive from Breakwater Beach!

Saw a couple sat eating cake with a cup of tea enjoying watching the Scuba divers emerge and swap Scallops Crabs and Lobsters

We decided there and then that we needed a motorhome

The Following Saturday we picked up a brand new Autohomes Highwayman on a petrol Talbot Express, bought from a very young Nick Saunders owner of Plymouth Motorhomes.

Two weeks after that we were off to Italy with Simon Select AshVanBitz and James Andrew James Motorhomes the boys being nearly four nearly five and six NickVanBitz was about 10 years from being born and I was 28 years old!

Wasn't hard to convince Lyn, my wife as she'd been touring Europe since she was six years old and her Dad had converted a Boyers Sausage van into a camper, even converting a mains fridge to work on 12 volt when driving, so it was in her blood as well

No wonder all four of our children work in the motorhome industry

Jim wrote an excellent article for those who are unsure or who tend to worry too much about buying your first motorhome

Buy your 3rd Motorhome 1st

At MotorhomeFun we coined a saying, “Buy your third van first”. This is harder to do than you might think. Let me try and outline what happens most of the time. Van One. They say you never forget your first. (No matter how hard you try!)So many people purchase their first van on a whim. […]

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[Super Spark]

An interesting viewpoint, and I'm sure it's true, but not relevant in any way to the point I was making. Unless of course your 2014 vehicle has a smart alternator.

No smart charger but l like KISS the less complicated the better

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[Lenny HB]

No smart charger but l like KISS the less complicated the better

No fun in that.

 

[Fatboy]

Hi thanks for your reply.
I probably haven’t made it all clear.
Firstly the manufacturer Swift should know the base vehicle has a smart alternator fitted and it won’t charge any leisure battery.
Yes I do agree 80ah is a very low capacity but you’ve got to understand this vehicle is less than a year old and from what I understand they are still building them with the same specs which quite frankly is not acceptable.

The graph attached isn’t the best I agree but we were on an EHU on a campsite and left with the fridge switched on. We had one night on a car park with no EHU and then travelled approximately 3.5 hours back home. The graph clearly shows the battery level as a percentage dropping all the way. At no point does it charge significantly.

What I’m saying Swift have a built a van that costs nearly £90k with an entry level charging system and power supply. If a dc2dc charger had been fitted I wouldn’t have a problem even with the tiny 80ah battery.

There must be other manufacturers doing the same and relying on good people to eventually realise that their standard low spec system isn’t up to it and reaches out for help and spends about £5000 to upgrade the system when all it would take is £300 dc2dc charger.

I have a 2022 Swift Kontiki 884 with the same cab. Alternator set up, I also have a victron smart shunt like you, I am sure I get around 10 a/h from the alternator into the leisure batteries when driving? so I think you may have a problem, I can't see the Kontiki being any different to yours?

 

[DerryW]

Thanks once again Barti I’ll do exactly as you suggest, but unfortunately it won’t be until late tomorrow or even first thing Monday has we’re out all day tomorrow. Once again thanks for your response and patience.
Derry

Barti
Apologies for the delay in getting photos of my engine battery across to you.
Based on your previous message it looks like I don’t have a smart alternator.

I think the single fuse on the orange cable is for the small compressor connected to the rear air assist suspension. I think the large fuse in the black box may be for the HP levellers.

 

[Rambleon]

Hi the Battery Master is a long term engine battery charging device.

It will not charge the leisure battery, ever, and it operates when the voltage difference is circa 0.8 VDC

It in no way replaces any split charger or Battery 2 Battery charger

I had a battery master fitted by solar solutions 15 years ago to our Burstner T680 along with 130 amp solar and two 100ah leisure batterys. Even in winter in Scotland once the vehicle battery reached full charge the little light on the battery master would come on and top up the leisure battery . Never needed hook up on the driveway,the vehicle battery lasted 12 years. I'm no expert on vehicle electrics but as far as I know there was no other b to b or split charger fitted just a fox d1 box to show charge levels, I still have receipts somewhere, they were brilliant even gave us a lift into town while they did the work. Often went a week or two off grid no problem.

 

[eddie]

I had a battery master fitted by solar solutions 15 years ago to our Burstner T680 along with 130 amp solar and two 100ah leisure batterys. Even in winter in Scotland once the vehicle battery reached full charge the little light on the battery master would come on and top up the leisure battery . Never needed hook up on the driveway,the vehicle battery lasted 12 years. I'm no expert on vehicle electrics but as far as I know there was no other b to b or split charger fitted just a fox d1 box to show charge levels, I still have receipts somewhere, they were brilliant even gave us a lift into town while they did the work. Often went a week or two off grid no problem.

It will never charge the leisure battery

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