Local business man fined after reporting illegal immigrants who had broke into his campervan (2 Viewers)

[The Wino]

I doubt that France has any accurate idea of how many arrive from Italy as there are few border controls, if any, as they fan out and transit to other European countries. It seems that few claim asylum in Italy or France.
Migrants crossing to England in boats are conspicuous and easily identifiable and counted.
As for housing them in detention or after being granted leave to stay, we are already releasing criminals early due to lack of accommodation. Maybe we'll also end up putting the crims in hotels.

It looks like the idea that few claim asylum in Italy and France is very wide of the mark

Asylum applications - annual statistics - Statistics Explained

The latest statistics on asylum applicants in the EU are presented.

ec.europa.eu

Hopefully faster processing should reduce the numbers housed in hotels. Of course if they are successful they then need housing somewhere we need that big push on building.

 

[Grianan]

We need to process there applications quicker or maybe process them in France....

Most immigration is legal immigration, the obsession with 1% of immigrants coming in on boats illegally is blurring the problem and not helping. The fact is we need immigration to support an ageing population, the UK's younger adults have been priced out of having children or a home.

Hopefully the new government can start to make head way against the.problems that have been caused by 12 years of mismanagement.

This is the most sensible post I have seen on this issue.

We need to boost our declining younger working population. The headline figure for fertility is 1.7 or 1.8 well below what is needed. And that doesn’t take account of any skew as to whether these children are born to families that work.

Working women are being priced out of having children by difficulties of getting onto housing ladder, poor maternity pay, exorbitant costs of childcare etc.

We need to fix the system and actively look at what it takes to make it easier for women in the workforce to raise a family. But that solves the problem 18 years down the line - we also need migration now to fund the pensions of the increasing older population.

 

[Grianan]

The other thing we should do is allow/encourage all immigrants to work … done are highly qualified doctors, nurses etc and prevented from working, relying on tax payers money to be kept in hostels etc.

If people are in legitimate work it’s far easier to track them than if they disappear into the black market.

For those that are unqualified etc then I’m sure there are plenty of road-fixing programs etc that could be put in place.

 

[tinkertaylor]

The other thing we should do is allow/encourage all immigrants to work … done are highly qualified doctors, nurses etc and prevented from working, relying on tax payers money to be kept in hostels etc.

If people are in legitimate work it’s far easier to track them than if they disappear into the black market.

For those that are unqualified etc then I’m sure there are plenty of road-fixing programs etc that could be put in place.

I like this idea, community service type employment could add points towards an immigration application, you could even have a 2 year period that takes it into account. It would sort the litter problem out and give the refugees a sense of worth.

 

[Tea Bag]

I must admit to being slightly sceptical. Never having been on a cross channel ferry. Is it possible to get on board without a passport?

Hi.
Freight on the ferries. One company driver drove on parked up went up to the lounge and the ship sailed. There was a second man in the cab hiding in the bottom bunk with the curtains drawn. When at sea,he got out and let some stow aways from that lorry into other lorries. This was captured by CCTV and the police were waiting- Same happened on the Freight Eurotunnel.
It was an eye opener to be sat in the queues to board the ferry back and Gendarmes would arrive and rake stow aways out of the back of vehicles....... HEAVY ...handed......
Tea Bag

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[stuartholmes]

The other thing we should do is allow/encourage all immigrants to work … done are highly qualified doctors, nurses etc and prevented from working, relying on tax payers money to be kept in hostels etc.

If people are in legitimate work it’s far easier to track them than if they disappear into the black market.

For those that are unqualified etc then I’m sure there are plenty of road-fixing programs etc that could be put in place.

As I understand it, (I don't KNOW because I don't personally hold these beliefs) the main objection to 'illegal immigrnnts'/boat people is that they will a. take 'our' jobs and b. be a drain on services.

But I also understand people are not allowed (officially/legally) to take paid employment without having 'approved' immigrant status. So 'a.' doesn't apply because they're not taking anybody's job.
And 'b.' wouldn't apply if they were allowed to get a job because they could pay their way and contribute to economic growth just like most other Brits.

Is that incorrect or is it too easy?

Oh and MY main objection to the boat people is the crooks who fleece them of everthing they own just for the opportunity to drown in the channel....

Finally from me on this topic, who remembers 'the boat people' when escaping from communist advance in Vietnam was taking up lots of news coverage? Weren't 'we' effectively 'cheering them on'?? What's different now?
(One of my friends is a grandchild of one of those Vietnamese boat people. One of the finest & most productive families you could hope to meet.)

 

[DandJ]

As I understand it, (I don't KNOW because I don't personally hold these beliefs) the main objection to 'illegal immigrnnts'/boat people is that they will a. take 'our' jobs and b. be a drain on services.

Most people I have conversed with don't say that...their main argument is that we have absolutely no idea who these (mainly young men) are. Thousands upon thousands of young men from war torn regions of the world may not bode well for ongoing security in the UK (or elsewhere in Europe) 50/75 yrs ago it wouldn;'t have been much of an issue because communicating with one another was far far harder. Now, with smart phones, communication is instant. Odd how most appear to have no documentation whatsoever but manage to hold onto their phones.
Legal migration of many hundreds of thousands is totally different.

 

[meanders]

...their main argument is that we have absolutely no idea who these (mainly young men) are. Thousands upon thousands of young men from war torn regions of the world may not bode well for ongoing security in the UK

Is there any concrete evidence at all that the security risk has increased? Or has the media and some politicians created the mindset in many of us? I don't know the answers to my own questions and if https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/tran...immigrantsandasylumseekersinthelastthreeyears is correct, nor do the government.

We just need to be careful that these people are not falsely blamed. The question we need to be asking is why that data is not being captured.

 

[L' Hobo]

As I understand it, (I don't KNOW because I don't personally hold these beliefs) the main objection to 'illegal immigrnnts'/boat people is that they will a. take 'our' jobs and b. be a drain on services.

But I also understand people are not allowed (officially/legally) to take paid employment without having 'approved' immigrant status. So 'a.' doesn't apply because they're not taking anybody's job.
And 'b.' wouldn't apply if they were allowed to get a job because they could pay their way and contribute to economic growth just like most other Brits.

Is that incorrect or is it too easy?

Oh and MY main objection to the boat people is the crooks who fleece them of everthing they own just for the opportunity to drown in the channel....

Finally from me on this topic, who remembers 'the boat people' when escaping from communist advance in Vietnam was taking up lots of news coverage? Weren't 'we' effectively 'cheering them on'?? What's different now?
(One of my friends is a grandchild of one of those Vietnamese boat people. One of the finest & most productive families you could hope to meet.)

The only comment I would say to your post is that, at the time of the Vietnamese Boat People, kindly Sweden took quite a number and it, according to some Swedish friends of mine, drastically changed the area they went to live in and is still has changing the traditional way of life in all of Sweden.

The high tax (80%) 5 star care, that they used to have from cradle to grave, has now been superseded by High Tax 3 star service because, they say, in many cases, a 'Cash Only' system can be seen in some areas and FULL tax is NOT being paid while demand for the services has increased?
In my experience, traditional Swedes would not even think about evading tax, they are more likely to jump of a high building because they can't.

It's been a long time since I lived in Sweden but on my visits, Sweden has changed, no longer do people leave their homes and cars unlocked.
The right to camp for a few days anywhere, has been abused and everywhere feels less safe than it did. (last time there, there were Police signs just outside Gothenburg, advising people NOT to sleep in lay-bys because of robberies)

While they are not blaming the Vietnamese for everything because the world has changed, they do cite this as the time when traditional Sweden changed drastically!

 

[Rapido925M]

Yesterday BBC News showed a youngish Syrian (?) man who has been held for 2y after arriving “illegally”. His wife and 4 children are still in Türkiye; they miss each other and his young children are struggling to remember him.

IF you had escaped from the Assad regime into a neighbouring country but wanted to travel to the UK would you insist on making your whole family make the long trek across Europe and pay for a dinghy over the dangerous Channel? OR would you come as a single man and hope to eventually get enough money to reunite with them safely?

Gordon
(Answering that you would settle in Türkiye isn’t an option )

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[robnchris]

Yesterday BBC News showed a youngish Syrian (?) man who has been held for 2y after arriving “illegally”. His wife and 4 children are still in Türkiye; they miss each other and his young children are struggling to remember him.

IF you had escaped from the Assad regime into a neighbouring country but wanted to travel to the UK would you insist on making your whole family make the long trek across Europe and pay for a dinghy over the dangerous Channel? OR would you come as a single man and hope to eventually get enough money to reunite with them safely?

Gordon
(Answering that you would settle in Türkiye isn’t an option )

I certainly wouldn't abandon my wife and children that's for sure. I certainly wouldn't be getting into a rubber boat with god knows how many people overloading it's safety limits. Look at how many have perished making this dangerous crossing and that's the boats we know about, haw many others have died.
I don't agree with any of the Illegal immigrants, we have no idea who they are or what their intentions are, try walking through passport control next time you fly back from a holiday with no ID papers etc and see how far you get.
The useless weak politicians, lawyers and woke lefties are creating a situation that is well out of hand and will come back to bite us all.

 

[meanders]

It still begs the question that no-one has answered satisfactorily, or even seem to have set up proper analysis on, which is 'Why the UK?' Clearly being taught English as a second language in schools across the globe is a key factor, plus some having extended family here is a factor. All the evidence is that the UK are no more or less generous to these arriving to other European countries. I don't believe that's the whole story though. Something is attracting them here else why get in a little dingy and risk your life crossing the channel as well as the cost paid to the smugglers. It makes no sense.

Absolutely right that we should welcome those where they already have links to the country, or have helped our troops in war zones, however they get here. The 'why' is a puzzle that no-one in authority seems to want to answer, yet we have plenty of migrants already here to ask!

 

[L' Hobo]

Yesterday BBC News showed a youngish Syrian (?) man who has been held for 2y after arriving “illegally”. His wife and 4 children are still in Türkiye; they miss each other and his young children are struggling to remember him.

IF you had escaped from the Assad regime into a neighbouring country but wanted to travel to the UK would you insist on making your whole family make the long trek across Europe and pay for a dinghy over the dangerous Channel? OR would you come as a single man and hope to eventually get enough money to reunite with them safely?

Gordon
(Answering that you would settle in Türkiye isn’t an option )

That's very emotive wording, he hasn't been 'held' for 2yrs, he has decided to be housed, fed and comparatively free without having to work for his allowance money for 2yrs, surely?

 

[L' Hobo]

It still begs the question that no-one has answered satisfactorily, or even seem to have set up proper analysis on, which is 'Why the UK?' Clearly being taught English as a second language in schools across the globe is a key factor, plus some having extended family here is a factor. All the evidence is that the UK are no more or less generous to these arriving to other European countries. I don't believe that's the whole story though. Something is attracting them here else why get in a little dingy and risk your life crossing the channel as well as the cost paid to the smugglers. It makes no sense.

Absolutely right that we should welcome those where they already have links to the country, or have helped our troops in war zones, however they get here. The 'why' is a puzzle that no-one in authority seems to want to answer, yet we have plenty of migrants already here to ask!

English is also spoken nationally in America, Australia, Canada and as you say, is being taught as a second language ALL over the world, so why are they risking there lives crossing the Channel when they can go virtually anywhere?
It can be out sunshine and benefit system can it?

PS. I have extended family all over the world too, but I rarely see the ones in the UK and certainly wouldn't recognise the ones in New Zealand or America?

 

[meanders]

I certainly wouldn't abandon my wife and children that's for sure. I certainly wouldn't be getting into a rubber boat with god knows how many people overloading it's safety limits. Look at how many have perished making this dangerous crossing and that's the boats we know about, haw many others have died.
I don't agree with any of the Illegal immigrants, we have no idea who they are or what their intentions are, try walking through passport control next time you fly back from a holiday with no ID papers etc and see how far you get.
The useless weak politicians, lawyers and woke lefties are creating a situation that is well out of hand and will come back to bite us all.

I agree with the first of your three categories. However all lawyers operate within the law of the land as handed down by the politicians. if the law is wrong, blame the politicians. I also do not see it as a left wing thing unless you count having compassion, and following international law as left wing actions. The country has just moved very much toward the left. If it's a leftie policy, you would expect the government of the day to be opening the doors..... the opposite appears to be true.

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[Miggs]

It still begs the question that no-one has answered satisfactorily, or even seem to have set up proper analysis on, which is 'Why the UK?' Clearly being taught English as a second language in schools across the globe is a key factor, plus some having extended family here is a factor. All the evidence is that the UK are no more or less generous to these arriving to other European countries. I don't believe that's the whole story though. Something is attracting them here else why get in a little dingy

Maybe because as far as I know we are the only country on this planet that effectively rewards people for arriving illegally, and that once here, there is every probability that they are here to stay, either enjoying an overly generous social welfare system or joining the many thriving criminal underworlds.

 

[meanders]

English is also spoken nationally in America, Australia, Canada and as you say, is being taught as a second language ALL over the world, so why are they risking there lives crossing the Channel when they can go virtually anywhere?
It can be out sunshine and benefit system can it?

This and other analysis indicates it's not the benefits system as they are broadly similar across the continent. Germany is the biggest recipient of migrants.
https://www.euronews.com/2015/09/16...es-offer-the-most-social-benefits-to-migrants

 

[David and Sally]

, you would expect the government of the day to be opening the doors..... the opposite appears to be true.

Starmer immediately cancelled a policy that seemed to have some effect putting off paddlers just out of ideology and stubborness and because he could. Effectively a whacking big sign in Calais…”Get paddling lads, the doors are wide open.”

And his alternative? Rename the Border Force into something else that will take months to achieve. Then what? Nothing will change.

 

[meanders]

Maybe because as far as I know we are the only country on this planet that effectively rewards people for arriving illegally, and that once here, there is every probability that they are here to stay, either enjoying an overly generous social welfare system or joining the many thriving criminal underworlds.

See my post immediately under yours. It's all becoming a bit of a chant even though the evidence contradicts the perception.

 

[meanders]

Starmer immediately cancelled a policy that seemed to have some effect putting off paddlers just out of ideology and stubborness

I am no fan of Starmer, but I am surprised at your conclusion as to the potential effect. All commentators including many Tories seemed to say the Rwanda policy would have made no difference. Certainly looking at the numbers arriving, there appears to be little evidence that the threat was having an effect.

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[L' Hobo]

I certainly wouldn't abandon my wife and children that's for sure. I certainly wouldn't be getting into a rubber boat with god knows how many people overloading it's safety limits. Look at how many have perished making this dangerous crossing and that's the boats we know about, haw many others have died.
I don't agree with any of the Illegal immigrants, we have no idea who they are or what their intentions are, try walking through passport control next time you fly back from a holiday with no ID papers etc and see how far you get.
The useless weak politicians, lawyers and woke lefties are creating a situation that is well out of hand and will come back to bite us all.

As you say, I certainly would not abandon the wife I love and my 4 young children and go hundreds of miles further than I had to.
I would stop in the nearest safe country and try and get them released to join me.

The cynic in me, realises it's a nice emotive story though, which helps him (and possibly 5 more people to enter this country)

Ironic when, on the BBC 4 programme at 11.45 on Thursday, it reported that in Russia there are colleges teaching young people to become bloggers, floggers, infiltrators and computer people the arts of reporting and issuing false and subversive information to disrupt the Western World.
Perhaps, these people are part of this Russian education programme?

 

[David and Sally]

I am no fan of Starmer, but I am surprised at your conclusion as to the potential effect. All commentators including many Tories seemed to say the Rwanda policy would have made no difference. Certainly looking at the numbers arriving, there appears to be little evidence that the threat was having an effect.

There is anecdotal evidence that some paddlers were swayed by it. So why not just fly out a few boats full just to test it? If it failed we would know but if it succeeded we could progress that policy. Other countries are doing it or considering it.

But no, just out of bloody- mindedness he put out the Welcome mat.

Should have been tried at least. He’s doing eff all else.

 

[L' Hobo]

This and other analysis indicates it's not the benefits system as they are broadly similar across the continent. Germany is the biggest recipient of migrants.
https://www.euronews.com/2015/09/16...es-offer-the-most-social-benefits-to-migrants

Is not the ever more supported right wing politicians been trying to reverse this motion for nearly as long as it has been in force and, if I remember correctly, includes the lady chancellor who was in charge at the time of it's installment?

By the way, the euro ews item you linked is 2015-16, aren't those stats a bit out of date?

 

[meanders]

I don't know if it was bloody mindedness or accepting perhaps the blindingly bleedin obvious! May be it would have worked in the short term but how long before those sent found their way back to our shores? They have proven they can travel vast distances to do it once, so why not again? You could end up just helping the smugglers by recycling the same people every few months.

 

[David and Sally]

I don't know if it was bloody mindedness or accepting perhaps the blindingly bleedin obvious! May be it would have worked in the short term but how long before those sent found their way back to our shores? They have proven they can travel vast distances to do it once, so why not again? You could end up just helping the smugglers by recycling the same people every few months.

Then when they arrive for the second time deportation to their own country however unsafe it may or may not be.
Let’s stop being so bloody soft on criminality.

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[L' Hobo]

I am no fan of Starmer, but I am surprised at your conclusion as to the potential effect. All commentators including many Tories seemed to say the Rwanda policy would have made no difference. Certainly looking at the numbers arriving, there appears to be little evidence that the threat was having an effect.

Perhaps the early statement by Starmer that he would scrap the Rwanda immediately might have made a difference and, if he was prepared to do that, he might also be prepared to relax other thing?
That would have been my thinking?

 

[Spriddler]

It still begs the question that no-one has answered satisfactorily, or even seem to have set up proper analysis on, which is 'Why the UK?'

On R4 this morning ........According to an English volunteer who's been working in migrant camps for several years the traffickers encourage channel crossings by painting a rosy picture of the U.K. because it is more profitable and quicker for them to get say 2,000 euros each from 60 people in a dinghy than to 'smuggle' them to another European mainland country.
The mayor of Boulogne was also quoted as saying: "The simple answer is that you are too kind to the migrants".

 

[David and Sally]

At last, some sense. So let’s get tough and not make the UK such an easy touch. The bleeding heart brigade won’t like that though.

 

[Sandancers]

I don't know if it was bloody mindedness or accepting perhaps the blindingly bleedin obvious! May be it would have worked in the short term but how long before those sent found their way back to our shores? They have proven they can travel vast distances to do it once, so why not again? You could end up just helping the smugglers by recycling the same people every few months.

You forget that we are constantly told that the families of the illegal immigrants make vast sacrifices to put together the money required to get one of their family smuggled into the UK. Some say it is between £5,000 to £10,000. Having paid out all that dosh and then found themselves sitting in Rwanda do you think they would risk paying out the same money again for possibly a second trip to Rwanda ?

 

[meanders]

So the first of those is simply people being steered here out of greed by the trafficker. The second... A politician, prabably wanting to offload a perceieved problem, and entitled to hold an opinion. I expect the mayor of Timbuctoo would say the same! The first comes as no surprise. The second personally I would give no credence too whatsoever. Still don't think either answers the question as to why som many want to come here? By the time they are in the camp on the French coast they have already decided to come here so someone working there is a little late to the party.

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