Lithium Question

[jopparocks]

Hi All I'm thinking of upgrading to lithium as me and swmbo will be retiring soon and the countries we want to go to will probably mean lots of off-grid stops. I've looked at a few threads and know that getting lithium means installing stuff that makes them operate efficiently. I already have a couple of items which came with van when I bought it and wonder if I need anything in addition to these. I think they are a B2B and a solar panel controller (I have two solar panels) pictures attached. What more do you think I'll need?
Cheers
Martin

 

[funflair]

First time I've seen it Martin. I don't have enough time on my hands to keep up with every thread/post.

BTW, I know where the VB Battery Master is, but can you advise me where the CBE unit is installed please? Based on Pausim Paul's post above, if I go down the Lithium route, I'd need to disconnect the CBE Battery Manager.

Cheers,

Jock.

The simple answer to that is I don't have a clue Jock, wether it is built into the DS540 (or whatever number) control box or standalone I really don't know, I did always keep my eye open for it when fiddling but never found anything with markings on.

 

[JockandRita]

The simple answer to that is I don't have a clue Jock, wether it is built into the DS540 (or whatever number) control box or standalone I really don't know, I did always keep my eye open for it when fiddling but never found anything with markings on.

Ah, sorry Martin, I may have misunderstood you in the past, as I thought you had said you fitted one.
I can always disconnect the VB unit, and observe if the starter battery is getting a charge from excess voltages produced by solar power.

The CBE unit has a default battery link built in, which shows up on the panel when the alternator is running.

Cheers

Jock.

 

[funflair]

Ah, sorry Martin, I may have misunderstood you in the past, as I thought you had said you fitted one.
I can always disconnect the VB unit, and observe if the starter battery is getting a charge from excess voltages produced by solar power.

The CBE unit has a default battery link built in, which shows up on the panel when the alternator is running.

Cheers

Jock.

No I only fitted the VB battery master which you know about, the CSB2 type feature to top up the starter when the engine is not comes up on the control panel as two linked batteries but this will only happen on solar when the leisure batteries reach 13.6v from solar or mains charging, of course that never happened in the shed hence the VB battery master, the symbol for the batteries linked when the alternator is charging has a G in it, G for generator I guess.

 

[jopparocks]

Well have taken the plunge and bought the Votronic Battery Charger VBCS 45/30/350 triple charger which covers all bases. Had a good look online and ebay had a refurbished one from Roadpro for £579 which is a good saving on new so went for it. Will now have to get a lithium battery - will probably go for a 200 ah battery which will double my existing amperage.
Since I won't be doing much in the winter I just might go for the battery that Otter Spotter asked about in another thread https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/premium-lithium.267499/ as I can probably wait for the six months before I get it delivered unless anyone else knows of any other good deal.
I've no doubt I'll be on again asking for advice on installation or get a specialist to do it for me although I would like to do it myself with guidance.
Thanks for everyone's input so far - I've learned a lot.

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[paddymcc]

Well have taken the plunge and bought the Votronic Battery Charger VBCS 45/30/350 triple charger which covers all bases. Had a good look online and ebay had a refurbished one from Roadpro for £579 which is a good saving on new so went for it. Will now have to get a lithium battery - will probably go for a 200 ah battery which will double my existing amperage.
Since I won't be doing much in the winter I just might go for the battery that Otter Spotter asked about in another thread https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/premium-lithium.267499/ as I can probably wait for the six months before I get it delivered unless anyone else knows of any other good deal.
I've no doubt I'll be on again asking for advice on installation or get a specialist to do it for me although I would like to do it myself with guidance.
Thanks for everyone's input so far - I've learned a lot.

Votronic have very clear instructions manuals so I'm sure you will manage. It does look a good bit of kit.

 

[Wyvern]

We have 400ah of lithium, 60ah B2B charger and 115w solar. our fridge is a compressor type and diesel heating, we tend to keep the max fan on at 10% all night even in winter. We tend to move on every 4 days or so.

even in winter we have never even come close to using 50% of our available battery so would not bother with the cost of that much battery in the future.

I am not sure why people suggest increasing the amount of solar. Ours is enough to keep the batteries topped up to 100% in the summer. In the winter IF ever we get low we idle the motor for 20mins. Only done this once when I left the inverter on to charge the ebikes.

so, if going for say 200ah lithium and a decent moot and B2B I would not bother with the additional solar cost.

 

[funflair]

We have 400ah of lithium, 60ah B2B charger and 115w solar. our fridge is a compressor type and diesel heating, we tend to keep the max fan on at 10% all night even in winter. We tend to move on every 4 days or so.

even in winter we have never even come close to using 50% of our available battery so would not bother with the cost of that much battery in the future.

I am not sure why people suggest increasing the amount of solar. Ours is enough to keep the batteries topped up to 100% in the summer. In the winter IF ever we get low we idle the motor for 20mins. Only done this once when I left the inverter on to charge the ebikes.

so, if going for say 200ah lithium and a decent moot and B2B I would not bother with the additional solar cost.

Whatever you take out you need to at least need try to put back during the day, you are doing OK if you are usually topped up to 100% but if you used more electric during the day eg kettle, cooker, microwave etc etc you would need more solar to balance that equation, sometimes we can take out close to 150ah during the day and the solar at 520 watts can put that back.

It all just shows that we are all different and have different needs.

 

[Captain Birdseye]

Hi All I'm thinking of upgrading to lithium as me and swmbo will be retiring soon and the countries we want to go to will probably mean lots of off-grid stops. I've looked at a few threads and know that getting lithium means installing stuff that makes them operate efficiently. I already have a couple of items which came with van when I bought it and wonder if I need anything in addition to these. I think they are a B2B and a solar panel controller (I have two solar panels) pictures attached. What more do you think I'll need?
Cheers
Martin

Professional help.

 

[Garry - June]

Its been a month now of using our Lithium install... we installed KS Energy 2x 155a batteries and i upgraded my solar set up... installing an additional roof panel giving us 3 with a combined 420w going through a Duo430 Votronic controller... my old 350duo i have now set up to use our 200w standalone Renogy suitcase panel.... i have made no other changes at all to anything else... so far its working excellently. i have the controllers directly connected to the batteries but i still have the controllers running in to the EBL through the data connection which gives a certain degree of monitoring through the original DT-220 control panel, and find the bluetooth app battery monitoring through my phone excellent.. We run our AES fridge freezer perfectly during the day on the batteries but occasionally if required switch to gas every now and again if its a particularly cloudy day to help the batteries.. the onboard original charger is now pretty much redundant... it has been a bit of an eye opener to see just how much power is consumed by the fridge.. and i may now consider upgrading to a compressor replacement... a lot of expense but we fulltime in our van which sort of justifies it..

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[JockandRita]

sometimes we can take out close to 150ah during the day

Have you and Jen gone into business on sites, using one of these Martin?

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Marauder]

Aren’t these Votronic units all in one? http

.
But isn't that basically replacing the entire EBL / CBE (or similar device which manufacturer fitted to vehicle ) ?
.

 

[Pausim]

.
But isn't that basically replacing the entire EBL / CBE (or similar device which manufacturer fitted to vehicle ) ?
.

No they are doing different jobs. The EBL/CBE will still be needed to do the 12V distribution functions.

 

[Garry - June]

No they are doing different jobs. The EBL/CBE will still be needed to do the 12V distribution functions.

Also remember the EBL can if needed be modified... "Alpujack Electronics Ltd" can and will perform an upgrade to your existing EBL so that it can perform alongside an Iridium install and change the charging profiles to match which is the route i will go if i deem it necessary.. also if you increase the solar to a significant amount then the EBL has to be bypassed as the charge can be much higher than it is designed to cope with..

 

[funflair]

Also remember the EBL can if needed be modified... "Alpujack Electronics Ltd" can and will perform an upgrade to your existing EBL so that it can perform alongside an Iridium install and change the charging profiles to match which is the route i will go if i deem it necessary.. also if you increase the solar to a significant amount then the EBL has to be bypassed as the charge can be much higher than it is designed to cope with..

As you say the EBL can be bypassed to charge direct to the batteries but you can get a lead for Votronic regulators that tells the EBL what charge is going to the batteries so you will get this on the display.

Votronic 2007 Cable set to connect Votronic solar reg. to Sc

<p><font><font>Ready-made cable set for connecting the VOTRONIC solar charge controller to an existing EBL with connected control and display panel...

www.roadpro.co.uk

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[Garry - June]

As you say the EBL can be bypassed to charge direct to the batteries but you can get a lead for Votronic regulators that tells the EBL what charge is going to the batteries so you will get this on the display.

Votronic 2007 Cable set to connect Votronic solar reg. to Sc

<p><font><font>Ready-made cable set for connecting the VOTRONIC solar charge controller to an existing EBL with connected control and display panel...

www.roadpro.co.uk

Yes you are correct.... i did say i had connected the data cable to the EBL in my earlier post..

 

[funflair]

Yes you are correct.... i did say i had connected the data cable to the EBL in my earlier post..

Sorry my school report always said "must try harder"

 

[Marauder]

but you can get a lead for Votronic regulators

'
Nah but
Yeah but

I have learned that nothing is ever straighforward with these vehicles.
See this chart indicating which regulator is suitable with which type of EBL:

EBL Connection - Page 6

Innovative Elektronik für den mobilen Einsatz

www.votronic.de

And according to Roy Blewitt of Roadpro (now on shutdown til 30/8/22):

If the - symbol is shown then the regulator cannot be used with the corresponding EBL
If the X symbol is shown then this type or regulator can be used with the EBL
if the Y symbol is shown then this can be connected to the onboard vehicle display screen
If (1) is shown then this indicates the maximum limit of solar that can be connected

- it confused the heck out of me !

:

 

[Garry - June]

I have been in contact with "Alpujack" regarding their upgrade to EBL's and found some interesting info.... the upgrade entails changing the charge profile to 14.6v..... however the reason i bought the KS Energy lithiums is that the recommended charge level for their batteries is 14.4v (although they can accept a maximum of 14.6v) , so as they state in their blurb for the batteries 14.4v exactly matches the present output of my EBL.. so i cannot see any much advantage of "upgrading" the unit ... this is also backed up with my experience of using the set up so far... when the EBL is employed such as today when its overcast and raining the bluetooth monitoring is showing the batteries fully charged to 100%.. and just to add the data cable between my Votronic 430 and EBL 220 works fine and i get the charging data displayed on my DT-220 control panel... so do i need to upgrade or install a new charger.... doesn't seem so...do i need to install a B2B...doesn't seem so .. do i need to do anything at all... not by the look of things..

 

[Pausim]

I have been in contact with "Alpujack" regarding their upgrade to EBL's and found some interesting info.... the upgrade entails changing the charge profile to 14.6v..... however the reason i bought the KS Energy lithiums is that the recommended charge level for their batteries is 14.4v (although they can accept a maximum of 14.6v) , so as they state in their blurb for the batteries 14.4v exactly matches the present output of my EBL.. so i cannot see any much advantage of "upgrading" the unit ... this is also backed up with my experience of using the set up so far... when the EBL is employed such as today when its overcast and raining the bluetooth monitoring is showing the batteries fully charged to 100%.. and just to add the data cable between my Votronic 430 and EBL 220 works fine and i get the charging data displayed on my DT-220 control panel... so do i need to upgrade or install a new charger.... doesn't seem so...do i need to install a B2B...doesn't seem so .. do i need to do anything at all... not by the look of things..

The charging voltage is ok but some people worry about damaging LiFePO4 batteries if the charger has a long absorption phase. Lead acid batteries need an absorption phase which holds the voltage at the higher bulk charging voltage for a number of hours after the bulk charge is complete. LiFePO4 batteries do not need the absorption phase and ideally should drop back to zero volts or a lower maintenance voltage as soon as the bulk charging has finished.

Under charging LiFePO4 batteries is not a problem, indeed they are better stored at 80% rather than at 100%. I have not replaced my standard CBE mains charger, I just use a setting that slightly under charges the battery and has a short absorption phase. When I am on a hook up I don’t need a fully charged battery. However I do want a full battery when I am parked up with no mains electricity, this is where the B2B is useful because it makes sure the battery is at 100% when you stop driving (given enough time).

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[cyberyacht]

I think the real crunch for B2B is whether you have a 'smart' alternator. I don't and haven't fitted a B2B. The CBE 16A charger is switched off and I rely on my solar panels and the input from the engine alternator when on the move. So far so good.

 

[Swifter]

Ecoflow have designed a complete system they are in the process of introducing. Liam the terrible is one of the first to make a video about it.

Video seems to be unavailable. Searching on YouTube brings up this disturbing video .
He seems a worse brand ambassador for Ecoflow than the Travel Trolls .

 

[Justus3]

Video seems to be unavailable. Searching on YouTube brings up this disturbing video .
He seems a worse brand ambassador for Ecoflow than the Travel Trolls .

Not sure you know the full story all his youtube stuff has gone. Maybe this has more to do with the last video he did saying he'd had enough of people having a go at him , making fun of him ect for the way he looks or for not going videos totally about the latest van conversion he's done.
In other words the mass of social media trolls and folk who've nothing better to do than make fun of have a pop at others who are different to them or don't fit society and it's nice neat pigeon holes.

 

[Swifter]

Not sure you know the full story all his youtube stuff has gone. Maybe this has more to do with the last video he did saying he'd had enough of people having a go at him , making fun of him ect for the way he looks or for not going videos totally about the latest van conversion he's done.
In other words the mass of social media trolls and folk who've nothing better to do than make fun of have a pop at others who are different to them or don't fit society and it's nice neat pigeon holes.

If he finds holding his child upside down by 1 leg and saying “ my babies dead please send gifts “ amusing then I am not surprised he gets trolled ! I found that video very worrying !!!

 

[Justus3]

If he finds holding his child upside down by 1 leg and saying “ my babies dead please send gifts “ amusing then I am not surprised he gets trolled ! I found that video very worrying !!!

Way more things to get worried about don't believe everything the web is full of stuff like this.

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[Swifter]

Way more things to get worried about don't believe everything the web is full of stuff like this.

I believe it as I can see it with my own eyes .

 

[Marauder]

So that's buried this thread

thanks guys (not)

 

[jopparocks]

So that's buried this thread

thanks guys (not)

Thread seems to have gone off the rails and into the buffer . Never mind was good while it lasted

 

[Otter Spotter]

Ecoflow have designed a complete system they are in the process of introducing. Liam the terrible is one of the first to make a video about it.

Must be crap then if he is using the kit, I wouldn’t trust him with a battery operated dust pan and brush

 

[cessac]

I was going to buy a lithium battery , heave the old lead acid out & fit the lithium in its place. Oh dear I think I am heading for disaster . I have read most of the threads on here ,& as I dont have a masters in electrical engineering , I was wondering if there is an idiots guide to fitting lithium batteries .